Phantom 4A/P camera vs. Mavic 2 Pro camera...

[FlyingUser]

Remember the guy who used alternative software to dig out the real .DNG as opposed to the one Adobe alters? That's what I'm talking about.

I can do the test myself since I have both a P4P and M2P now but I cannot remember the name of the software.

Try to erase the integrated lens profile with exiftool.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Saw something today that DJI has listed the earlier versions of the Mavic as well as the P4P/P4P+ and earlier version as 'discontinued' with the speculation that the next Phantom is likely sometime soon -- I've been saying that for a while. I don't know this for sure and what it will be called if it is though the Phantom 5 does seem likely. And, as said earlier, if a Phantom 5 is in the works I'd expect 150Mbps with usable 4K60 in addition to any new sensors and comm link. Hopefully the image processor can handle the datarate and do so with H.265 at the full 4K60 and do so without the video glitches and image tearing I get at 4K30 H.265 with the P4P.

And, as the new Mavic is at $1500USD I'd expect the new Phantom to be more like $1800-$2000USD. If it comes with the above mentioned video improvements and additional sensors and, hopefully, a bit more airtime it would be a great choice for the more serious drone videographers including some pro video and movie types. I suspect the movie industry will still opt for an Inspire or better drones for the bigger budget movies, but for lessor movies and TV the Phantom 5, if its real, could be a great option.


Brian

The DJI reps say no P5 is in the works. If at all, any future P5 might be created specifically for mapping and other specific Enterprise needs, but the consumer/prosumer Phantom line ends with the P4P V2. Mavic will be the new prosumer platform going forward, with the Inspire line handling the vast majority of the Enterprise needs.

 

[RPP]

The DJI reps say no P5 is in the works. If at all, any future P5 might be created specifically for mapping and other specific Enterprise needs, but the consumer/prosumer Phantom line ends with the P4P V2. Mavic will be the new prosumer platform going forward, with the Inspire line handling the vast majority of the Enterprise needs.

That is not what the reply from the DJI CEO conveyed to one of the members here. While he did not categorically say there will be a P5, he held out the possibility that there will be a follow up.

In any case, I wish DJI would present a more transparent roadmap as regards the Phantom line.

 

[Raptorman0909]

The DJI reps say no P5 is in the works. If at all, any future P5 might be created specifically for mapping and other specific Enterprise needs, but the consumer/prosumer Phantom line ends with the P4P V2. Mavic will be the new prosumer platform going forward, with the Inspire line handling the vast majority of the Enterprise needs.

Well that has been one of the rumors for a while with there being a Phantom 5 being the other rumor for quite a while. The reason I would bet money on a Phantom is that the new Mavic, though better in some ways to the P4P, isn't really a step forward in video quality and the P4P is coming up on 2 years old. Would DJI release a product that's, essentially, no better than something 2 years old and then rest on that for another year or so -- seems dubious to me. If true we could be looking towards the end of next year or sometime in 2020 before DJI released a prosumer drone that actually surpasses the P4P. I can't see DJI riding equal tech for 3-4 years.

A P5, if one is released, would need to up the bitrate to 150Mbps and offer true 4K60 to be an actual improvement over the P4P. Yeah, there are new sensors and that's nice, but if I can get the same quality from my 2 year old P4P I have zero reason to give DJI any more money until they release a prosumer drone that does. And again, that could be as much as 4 years after my last purchase.

That does not add up!


Brian

 

[Raptorman0909]

That is not what the reply from the DJI CEO conveyed to one of the members here. While he did not categorically say there will be a P5, he held out the possibility that there will be a follow up.

In any case, I wish DJI would present a more transparent roadmap as regards the Phantom line.

Agree 100%!


Brian

 

[Meta4]

The DJI reps say no P5 is in the works. If at all, any future P5 might be created specifically for mapping and other specific Enterprise needs, but the consumer/prosumer Phantom line ends with the P4P V2. Mavic will be the new prosumer platform going forward, with the Inspire line handling the vast majority of the Enterprise needs.

Got a link? What DJI reps?
Many wouldn't know and/or wouldn't be able to say anything about future developments.
This guy does say something .. jump to 6:00 to hear it.

there are new sensors and that's nice

All indications are that it's the same sensor

 

[GadgetGuy]

That is not what the reply from the DJI CEO conveyed to one of the members here. While he did not categorically say there will be a P5, he held out the possibility that there will be a follow up.

In any case, I wish DJI would present a more transparent roadmap as regards the Phantom line.

He left the door open, without commiting to anything. The reps have made it clear that they are not currently testing any P5 under NDA's (a prerequisite for an imminent P5 release), and that any future of the Phantom line will most likely be reserved for Enterprise, which is also not currently testing any Phantom based craft. The reps have done their best to lower any expectations. Hope springs eternal. However, DJI has been known to surprise all of us. Anything is possible. Just don't bet the farm on it!

 

[GadgetGuy]

Got a link? What DJI reps?
Many wouldn't know and/or wouldn't be able to say anything about future developments.
This guy does say something .. jump to 6:00 to hear it.

All indications are that it's the same sensor

True, but definitive statements that they are not testing any P5 under an NDA are not prohibited. Starting at 6:00, the DJI presenter corroberates that the Mavic is the new DJI prosumer platform going forward, because of the requirement of small size, and that any future Phantom would be reserved for Enterprise, where the Phantom is still smaller than an M600 and an I2. That's essentially what both Bladestrike and MadAngler (not a DJI rep, but seems well clued in) have stated. It's all speculation, but I wouldn't expect to see a P5 any time soon for anything other than mapping or some other specific Enterprise solution, that requires a mechanical shutter or 4K 60fps. YMMV.

 

[RPP]

The reason I would bet money on a Phantom is that the new Mavic, though better in some ways to the P4P, isn't really a step forward in video quality and the P4P is coming up on 2 years old. Would DJI release a product that's, essentially, no better than something 2 years old and then rest on that for another year or so -- seems dubious to me. If true we could be looking towards the end of next year or sometime in 2020 before DJI released a prosumer drone that actually surpasses the P4P. I can't see DJI riding equal tech for 3-4 years.

This is a good point. The Mavic 2 Pro only meets the P4P optical performance, doesn't surpass it (the bells and whistles in software notwithstanding). Hard to see DJI waiting another year or more to offer something better.

 

[Raptorman0909]

Got a link? What DJI reps?
Many wouldn't know and/or wouldn't be able to say anything about future developments.
This guy does say something .. jump to 6:00 to hear it.

All indications are that it's the same sensor

I should have been clearer -- I meant there are new collision avoidance sensors on the new Mavic that go beyond what the P4P has and that would be nice, but the image sensor I don't know for sure but it appears to be the same sensor.


Brian

 

[GadgetGuy]

This is a good point. The Mavic 2 Pro only meets the P4P optical performance, doesn't surpass it (the bells and whistles in software notwithstanding). Hard to see DJI waiting another year or more to offer something better.

Give the Mavic platform more time! Rest assured that DJI fully intends to improve upon those current M2 Pro camera specs!

 

[Raptorman0909]

Give the Mavic platform more time! Rest assured that DJI fully intends to improve upon those current M2 Pro camera specs!

Yeah sure, but if the next version is a year or year and a half down the road it will mean the DJI has gone 3+ years with no measurable improvement in there prosumer drone video and I find that impossible to believe. The new Mavic is limited to 100Mbps and 4K30 whereas the P4P, a 2 year old drone, is 100Mbps and 4K60. Yes, the P4P's ability to actually do 4K60 is suspect, but the point is if the Mavic is now the only thing until you go to the enterprise Inspire system and the just released new Mavic is it for another 12-18 months then DJI will have released many new drones since the P4P that do not surpass it in a measurable way. Unpossible!


Brian

 

[GadgetGuy]

Yeah sure, but if the next version is a year or year and a half down the road it will mean the DJI has gone 3+ years with no measurable improvement in there prosumer drone video and I find that impossible to believe. The new Mavic is limited to 100Mbps and 4K30 whereas the P4P, a 2 year old drone, is 100Mbps and 4K60. Yes, the P4P's ability to actually do 4K60 is suspect, but the point is if the Mavic is now the only thing until you go to the enterprise Inspire system and the just released new Mavic is it for another 12-18 months then DJI will have released many new drones since the P4P that do not surpass it in a measurable way. Unpossible!


Brian

No reason to assume a 12-18 month Mavic upgrade cycle. An Enterpise Mavic may be just around the corner!

 

[shegeek72]

I said stuttering and by that I mean the visible difference from one frame to the next. The slower the frame rate the greater the motion between frames making that more noticeable. And no, you do NOT absolutely need an ND filter to get proper exposure as exposure can be controlled with aperture, ISO, and shutter speed alone. The reason you are suggested to use ND filter is to slow the shutter speed and the main reason for that is to reduce the effects of stuttering. But, and I've mentioned this numerous times, when you are farther away and make slow panning or tilting motions the amount of movement between frame is small enough that stuttering is not apparent -- that's just how the Math works out. OTH, if you are real close and are doing quick pans or tilts then the relative motion between frames is greater and stuttering is more apparent.

Much of the history here is driven by traditional film and TV industry were most of the shots are done very close and at lower frame rates -- 8mm film was often shot at 18fps while cinema has usually been 24fps. At those frame rates and when filming close you have to lower the shutter speeds to limit apparent stuttering. But, again, drone video is another beast with higher frame rates (30fps or higher) and much greater distance to subject in most cases. When you look at it the thing that matters is the rate and object is moving across the FOV horizontally and/or vertically -- I refer to that as pixel velocity or speed.

If you look at this video I shot last year using no ND filters with a shutter speed faster than 1/1000 you will not see much stuttering but you will see sharp detailed images.

Nice footage. How far did you fly?

 

[FlyingUser]

I don't understand the lots of worry around the P5.

DJI apparently tries to cover the entire drone market from pocket birds to heavy enterprise units, I am 100% sure, that they won't leave this segment alone. However, it is entirely possible, that the next prosumer drone won't be called Phantom and won't look like a Phantom.

What if they come up with some sort of "inspire light" solution? I am perfectly fine with that... I personally don't mind how is it called, how exactly it looks like, I look for flight and optical performance, end of story.

 

[gastone360]

I would like to see that untouched raw (before Adobe Camera Raw touches it) P4P image compared to an identical untouched raw from the new M2P camera. That way we could see if true lens distortion has improved or not.

Remember the guy who used alternative software to dig out the real .DNG as opposed to the one Adobe alters? That's what I'm talking about.

I can do the test myself since I have both a P4P and M2P now but I cannot remember the name of the software.

since you have both, do you prefer mavic or p4pro??? thank you

 

[FlyingUser]

I would like to see that untouched raw (before Adobe Camera Raw touches it) P4P image compared to an identical untouched raw from the new M2P camera. That way we could see if true lens distortion has improved or not.

Remember the guy who used alternative software to dig out the real .DNG as opposed to the one Adobe alters? That's what I'm talking about.

I can do the test myself since I have both a P4P and M2P now but I cannot remember the name of the software.

BTW, look at this one, quite shocking results from the P4P! Curious if the Mavic 2 is also soo much handicapped. It's nowhere near a proper 24mm fixed focal lens, such as the olympus 2/12...

 

[RPP]

BTW, look at this one, quite shocking results from the P4P! Curious if the Mavic 2 is also soo much handicapped.

Nothing shocking about it. Such kind of barrel distortion is typical of most wide angle lenses and it is easily corrected.

 

[FlyingUser]

Nothing shocking about it. Such kind of barrel distortion is typical of most wide angle lenses and it is easily corrected.

Correction = loss of detail and increase noise (vignetting correction = boosting ISO). The more you have to correct, the more your picture will suffer.

 

[RPP]

Correction = loss of detail and increase noise (vignetting correction = boosting ISO). The more you have to correct, the more your picture will suffer.

All lenses except a handful have to be corrected. No such thing as a perfect lens. Yes, the truly great glass (such as the Otus line of Zeiss, for example) achieve near perfection but then it comes at a cost. You don’t want to pay $5000 for a lens in the Phantom that will have all the aberrations corrected.

The lens in the P4P is actually very good for that price point and the loss in resolution post-correction is for practical purposes negligible.