Near collision with military hellicopter

[Scott99]

Ummmm what???????

The Dunning Kruger effect, in layman's terms, basically states: The Dumb are too dumb to realize they are dumb.

 

[JTE]

I've included a cut out from the Los Angeles Sectional Chart. If you're taking the FAA test this month, you'll need to know how to read them. Ok, back to the posters original question - I see a box that includes part of Newport Beach (not sure exactly where you were flying but . ..) It says: "Caution intensive flight and aerobatic training . . .", (with frequencies to monitor traffic in that area for different altitudes), in addition you're are near the John Wayne airport - lots of activity in your area. So a VO (visual observer) would be a good idea. Suffice it to say the airspace is busy there. Take a friend with you to look out for traffic.

When I was filming the BP Oil spill from a Cessna 182 we'd just call the tower before take off and file a flight plan. For our needs we wanted to fly along the beach at 400 feet for two reasons. 1) to get below the other traffic and get approved and 2) to get close enough so I could use wide angle and not have to zoom so much. So FAA wants to know who and where folks are flying so they can steer others around them. It's all about safety. When an aircraft wants to go below 400 feet, if I'm an FAA guy, I'll want to know if there is a drone operating in that area. They need to know to keep the skies safe. This will become more important as drones are incorporated into the National Airspace.

 

[Tim in Florida]

It's part of the Dunning-Kruger Effect:
"The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which relatively unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than it really is. Dunning and Kruger attributed this bias to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their own ineptitude and evaluate their own ability accurately."

You are wrong. I was guesstimating altitudes of the pilots (copters and planes and those motorized hang-glider-looking things) that buzz or sight-see the beach here. Someone gave me that same line you are using. The insinuation was that since I am not trained to judge distances, I cannot possibly be right. We used my friend's rangefinder and I was right. Within a few feet anyway. If you can see someones face in the plane, it's not that hard to judge the distance. Unless you are a hermit an not used to seeing actual faces of people.

 

[Meta4]

do you have any evidence to substantiate or verify the alleged violation?

if you see something that doesn't look right or is dangerous, report it, Report Aviation Safety Issues

helicopter pilots seem to get a little jumpy at the prospect of an FAA inquiry and i frankly don't blame them...

What violation?
What's there to report?

in case you missed it earlier, here are the rules applying to real planes and helicopters.
§ 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface—
(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA

 

[John Locke]

I heard a helicopter approaching from behind and when I turned and looked it was immediately obvious that there was going to be collision. As it passed all I could see was that it was military and flying very low.

Is there any video of the helicopter from the drone?

You mentioned the helicopter came from behind, implying it was flying over land, since you were positioned on the coastline (I presume), is that true? Or was the helicopter flying down the coastline, always over water, very low?

 

[Chopper]

Is there any video of the helicopter from the drone?

You mentioned the helicopter came from behind, implying it was flying over land, since you were positioned on the coastline (I presume), is that true? Or was the helicopter flying down the coastline, always over water, very low?

I was on the end of a jetty. The helicopter approached from behind me flying parallel to the coastline over water.

 

[Chopper]

I just spent some time communicating with an investigator with the FAA. His conclusion was that we were both flying legally and we were both responsible for watching out for each other. He also debunked the so called Dunning Kruger effect in this situation by stating that a trained pilot may be better at estimating distance from air to ground but not necessarily from ground to air, unless they were also trained in air traffic control.

 

[N017RW]

Pilots don't need to estimate... They have altimeters.


Oh, and FAA inspectors now minor in Psychology too?

Hey it's all good.
Always go with you're gut.

Mine is telling me your pants are on fire.

 

[Patrick]

What violation?
What's there to report?

in case you missed it earlier, here are the rules applying to real planes and helicopters.
§ 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface—
(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA

My point was that if the OP experienced an issue with loss of separation or near collision, and the helicopter was flying inappropriately low they should report it to the FAA, let them make the determination and take appropriate action, which could be simply educating the OP on flight standards, or depending on the issue contacting the helicopter pilot.

Shouldn't near collisions be reported to the FAA?

 

[N017RW]

While I'm not suggesting 1 to 1 correlation...
First we had folks here labeled 'Drone Police' for chastising videos, photos, and admissions from sUAS Pilots of unsafe or reckless/careless operation.
Now we have a few Phantom owners/operators eager to report any encounter with a FS aircraft/Pilot they feel, with their extensive experience, has violated some regulation.

 

[Patrick]

While I'm not suggesting 1 to 1 correlation...
First we had folks here labeled 'Drone Police' for chastising videos, photos, and admissions from sUAS Pilots of unsafe or reckless/careless operation.
Now we have a few Phantom owners/operators eager to report any encounter with a FS aircraft/Pilot they feel, with their extensive experience, has violated some regulation.

should a near collision be reported to the FAA or no?

 

[N017RW]

Numerous have been reported, at an escalating rate, by pilots world-wide but are blown-off by the highly experienced Chinese toy flying camera 'Pilots' here.
Sure some are erroneous just like anything. Human error prevails. But to discredit professionals in favor of hobbyists???
TEHO.

 

[Patrick]

Numerous have been reported, at an escalating rate, by pilots world-wide but are blown-off by the highly experienced Chinese toy flying camera 'Pilots' here.
Sure some are erroneous just like anything. Hunan error prevails. But to discredit professionals in favor of hobbyists???
TEHO.

the correct answer is --- if the pilot feels there was a safety issue they are obligated to report it. Do you agree?

 

[N017RW]

You're asking me to equate a Phantom owner/'Pilot' with a professional [military] Pilot?

The genesis of the thread is a Phantom owner is flying off-shore/over water and an alleged military helicopter appears flying so low as a collision was imminent.

So the Phantom pilot, feeling the helicopter pilot has violated flight restrictions, contacts the FAA and connects with an investigator with a Psychology background and explains pilots need ATC training to be able to estimate altitude accurately.

Look, enough of this for me.

Do what you feel is right. No one should be faulted for that.

 

[FatTwoTonTony]

I get sooo bored listening to arm chair warriors argue on this forum!! Its time the Admins here deal with some of this silliness. Just about every topic/posting has someone chime in being rude and ignorant which certainly adds nothing to the topic. All it really does it turn the topic into a sparring match of wits by multiple unarmed participants!!

 

[TacAir42]

Yeah go ahead and report yourself to an out of control government looking for a reason to jail people. Good idea. SMH.

 

[F6Rider]

The rule is simple to understand, YOU ALWAYS yield airspace to MANNED A/C, how hard is that to understand.

 

[DCDrone]

Seems to me that if some traditional types of aircraft have minimum altitudes below our maximum altitude, these sorts of things are going to happen from time to time.

Presumably, they will typically end the same way, with the drone getting the hell out of the way. I guess that in a worst case scenario, the drone operator can, and must, go left stick down and sacrifice the drone.

That's a "Plan C" in the back of my mind at all times.

 

[Nick Mendocino]

Military aircraft go by their own rules. Reporting to the FAA what you think is a near collision by a passing military helicopter over open water with your drone may get YOU investigated, but there's no chance the FAA will question the military pilot based on your say so.

 

[snowghost]

The rule is simple to understand, YOU ALWAYS yield airspace to MANNED A/C, how hard is that to understand.

Whether they are right or wrong.