My P3P crashed, DJI not cooperating

[GadgetGuy]

Sorry. That was supposed to be my suggestion to DJI: if it sees you descending within 50 meters of the controller, don't try to fly to the home point.

Mike

Cool. However, the telemetry doesn't know how far the aircraft is from the controller, unless you have properly reset the Home Point to the controller, and not moved. It only knows the distance from the bird to the current Home Point. The real fix is that Smart Return Home should be turned OFF, period! This was not a "signal loss triggered" RTH, but was, instead, a battery calculation algorithm inaptly named "Smart Return Home" gone rogue!

 

[Meta4]

Cool. However, the telemetry doesn't know how far the aircraft is from the controller, unless you have properly reset the Home Point to the controller, and not moved. It only knows the distance from the bird to the current Home Point

Actually, distance from the controller is known regardless of resetting home point.
Turn off VPS and you can see two horizontal distances in the app.

This was not a "signal loss triggered" RTH, but was, instead, a battery calculation algorithm inaptly named "Smart Return Home" gone rogue!

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn smart return home.
In this case the Phantom was over a mile from the recorded home point and smart RTH cut in at 31%.
If I am flying over water and over a mile out, I would want to have turned for home before that.
You don't want to be just making it home at 10% and over water you need to have a safety margin.

 

[Chris_P]

Chris, did your device have GPS enabled?

Sorry, I took a while to respond to this ... Yes, my iPad is GPS enabled and I could see points in the log where it appears to be aware of my location.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Actually, distance from the controller is known regardless of resetting home point.
Turn off VPS and you can see two horizontal distances in the app.

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn smart return home.
In this case the Phantom was over a mile from the recorded home point and smart RTH cut in at 31%.
If I am flying over water and over a mile out, I would want to have turned for home before that.
You don't want to be just making it home at 10% and over water you need to have a safety margin.

Thanks for the input. How can the Phantom distance from the controller be known, unless the controller also has built-in GPS, like on the Inspire controller? The Phantom controllers lack the GPS which is present on the Inspire controllers, which is needed to locate them, and calculate the distance from the Bird to the controller. Phantoms have to use a cellular tablet or a BT connected GPS for the tablet to be able to locate the RC, for resetting the Home Point to the controller, and calculating the controller to the bird distance, if the controller has moved from the Home Point.

As to Smart Return Home, I completely agree that an aware pilot flying over water would be ready to turn around at 31% and over a mile away. I just don't want the app doing it for me. The yellow H in the remaining flight time does a much better job of keeping me aware. In this case, the pilot was in the process of handcatching with 31% battery, and Smart Return Home was the precipitating cause of the misfortune that followed. The pilot was already well aware of his battery level, and already landing, when Smart Return Home took over. Smart Return Home has it's place, but not for me, or you, or the OP.

 

[Meta4]

Thanks for the input. How can the Phantom distance from the controller be known, unless the controller also has built-in GPS, like on the Inspire controller? The Phantom controllers lack the GPS which is present on the Inspire controllers, which is needed to locate them, and calculate the distance from the Bird to the controller. Phantoms have to use a cellular tablet or a BT connected GPS for the tablet to be able to locate the RC, for resetting the Home Point to the controller, and calculating the controller to the bird distance, if the controller has moved from the Home Point.

The app uses the GPS in the tablet ... and if you use Android, most tablets have GPS

 

[MikeyOnline]

Thanks for the input. How can the Phantom distance from the controller be known, unless the controller also has built-in GPS, like on the Inspire controller? The Phantom controllers lack the GPS which is present on the Inspire controllers, which is needed to locate them, and calculate the distance from the Bird to the controller. Phantoms have to use a cellular tablet or a BT connected GPS for the tablet to be able to locate the RC, for resetting the Home Point to the controller, and calculating the controller to the bird distance, if the controller has moved from the Home Point.

As to Smart Return Home, I completely agree that an aware pilot flying over water would be ready to turn around at 31% and over a mile away. I just don't want the app doing it for me. In this case, the pilot was in the process of handcatching with 31% battery, and Smart Return Home was the precipitating cause of the misfortune that followed. The pilot was already well aware of his battery level, and already landing, when Smart Return Home took over. Smart Return Home has it's place, but not for me, or you, or the OP.

I believe it gets the controller location from the device that is connected to it. Meaning your device must have GPS and it must be turned on. I think that's how follow-me works, no? Actually, in thinking about it, I think good logic might be... if smart RTH is turned on and it sees that the controller (device) is (much) closer than the home point, ASK the pilot first and make him/her confirm that they want to fly to the home point rather than just taking off in the direction of the home point. Would make sense to me. Some message like:

Smart RTH activated due to battery level. The controller is closer than the home point. Really fly to the home point now?

With a swipe right to confirm or left to decline. Could even give the option to return to the controller, or return to home position. Possibly with a check to see if either one is over water, but that part is probably over-the-top.

Mike

 

[GadgetGuy]

The app uses the GPS in the tablet ... and if you use Android, most tablets have GPS

That explains the difference. I use iOS only, which requires either a cellular iPad, which I don't have, or an external BT connected GPS, which I have, but rarely use, as my remote stays at the launch point most of the time.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I believe it gets the controller location from the device that is connected to it. Meaning your device must have GPS and it must be turned on. I think that's how follow-me works, no? Actually, in thinking about it, I think good logic might be... if smart RTH is turned on and it sees that the controller (device) is (much) closer than the home point, ASK the pilot first and make him/her confirm that they want to fly to the home point rather than just taking off in the direction of the home point. Would make sense to me. Some message like:

Smart RTH activated due to battery level. The controller is closer than the home point. Really fly to the home point now?

With a swipe right to confirm or left to decline. Could even give the option to return to the controller, or return to home position. Possibly with a check to see if either one is over water, but that part is probably over-the-top.

Mike

That might have helped the OP, but he was not watching the app, he was watching the bird during his handcatching. If there is no response from the pilot to the prompt, what happens then? If he had been watching the app, he could have cancelled the Smart Return Home notice that already was on the screen. My advice to the OP remains the same: turn Smart Return Home OFF!

 

[MikeyOnline]

Refining my above suggestion a little (sorry, software engineer here)...

It doesn't have to be anything complicated. Whenever it has GPS info from the controller, it could just check and if the controller is closer than the home point (possibly by some factor like 20% closer or more), then display this message:

Smart RTH activated due to battery level. Swipe left to return to the home position (8,596 ft) or right to return to the current controller position (54 ft).

And if the message is ignored for say 30 seconds, it could choose the home position automatically I guess. That 30 seconds hovering in place would also allow the pilot to discern they are no longer in control, prompting them to look at the device, rather than just flying off almost instantly.

Just thinking out loud. Would be a cool check/feature.

Mike

 

[GadgetGuy]

Refining my above suggestion a little (sorry, software engineer here)...

It doesn't have to be anything complicated. Whenever it has GPS info from the controller, it could just check and if the controller is closer than the home point (possibly by some factor like 20% closer or more), then display this message:

Smart RTH activated due to battery level. Swipe left to return to the home position (8,596 ft) or right to return to the current controller position (54 ft).

And if the message is ignored for say 30 seconds, it could choose the home position automatically I guess. That 30 seconds hovering in place would also allow the pilot to discern they are no longer in control, prompting them to look at the device, rather than just flying off almost instantly.

Just thinking out loud. Would be a cool check/feature.

Mike

Turning Smart Return Home OFF before takeoff is far easier, and requires no additional programming!

 

[MikeyOnline]

Turning Smart Return Home OFF before takeoff is far easier, and requires no additional programming!

True. I'm just proposing a way to make it safer and more useful so we don't have/want to turn it off. Or at least people who want to use it won't fall into "traps".

Mike

 

[GadgetGuy]

Sorry, I took a while to respond to this ... Yes, my iPad is GPS enabled and I could see points in the log where it appears to be aware of my location.

One point of confusion needs to be clarified. Even though DJI has misused the term Dynamic Home Point in reference to the P3, unless I am mistaken, it is still not dynamic (like on the P2v +), but is a manual static reset every time you use that feature. Perhaps that led to the OP's belief that his Home Point was set to his current position, rather than the last time during the flight when he successfully reset the Home Point to the controller/tablet location.

 

[GadgetGuy]

True. I'm just proposing a way to make it safer and more useful so we don't have/want to turn it off. Or at least people who want to use it won't fall into "traps".

Mike

It would seem to me that the very people who are falling into the "traps" are those who should be turning it off, as they are already well aware of their battery levels, and their remaining flight time, as displayed in the app. If you are a newbie, and afraid that you will be having so much fun flying, that you won't be paying very close attention to your remaining flight time, leave it on. Even then, those new pilots aren't going to be flying BVLOS, and there are other warnings that kick in long before the remaining battery power is truly an issue. The Smart Return Home here activated at 31%. The "low battery" warning and the "critically low" battery Autoland are set to just below 31% by default, and are adjustable. However, for anyone flying BVLOS, you better have already learned how to monitor your remaining flight time and battery levels, without the annoyance of Smart Return Home.

 

[Chris_P]

It would seem to me that the very people who are falling into the "traps" are those who should be turning it off, as they are already well aware of their battery levels, and their remaining flight time, as displayed in the app. If you are a newbie, and afraid that you will be having so much fun flying, that you won't be paying very close attention to your remaining flight time, leave it on. Even then, those new pilots aren't going to be flying BVLOS, and there are other warnings that kick in long before the remaining battery power is truly an issue. The Smart Return Home here activated at 31%. The "low battery" warning and the "critically low" battery Autoland are set to just below 31% by default, and are adjustable. However, for anyone flying BVLOS, you better have already learned how to monitor your remaining flight time and battery levels, without the annoyance of Smart Return Home.

This was precisely my predicament. I was fully aware of my battery condition as I asked the boat captain to stop and allow me to bring in the phantom because the battery level was approaching 30%. I'm a very careful and conservative operator so I don't risk taking in below that level. We had already been filming for quite some time and I saw the battery level getting low. It just unfortunate timing that as redirected my attention from the screen to the Phantom for landing, the RTH activated.

 

[AJAX-14]

I believe it gets the controller location from the device that is connected to it. Meaning your device must have GPS and it must be turned on. I think that's how follow-me works, no? Actually, in thinking about it, I think good logic might be... if smart RTH is turned on and it sees that the controller (device) is (much) closer than the home point, ASK the pilot first and make him/her confirm that they want to fly to the home point rather than just taking off in the direction of the home point. Would make sense to me. Some message like:

I'm pretty sure that is not the case... my iPad has no GPS or cellular, and I turn all radios off when I fly. How would the controller get any location data from an iPad that has no location awareness? Answer: it doesn't. My guess is the controller and quad use the WiFi signal strength and latency to calculate distance from pilot (controller) to the quad. Since radio frequency waves travel through the open air at a know speed it's a simple calculation to measure distance using RF signaling. That is the principle location is calculated on all GPS and cellular devices. It is a curious note however, how the quad calculates the location of the controller. Again, since it knows precisely where it is in 3D space from its own GPS, it has at least two vectors, relative altitude and distance by which to calculate the location. Technically the quad needs at least three points to calculate a vector to the controller's location.... makes me believe the controller might be smarter than we think.

 

[GadgetGuy]

This was precisely my predicament. I was fully aware of my battery condition as I asked the boat captain to stop and allow me to bring in the phantom because the battery level was approaching 30%. I'm a very careful and conservative operator so I don't risk taking in below that level. We had already been filming for quite some time and I saw the battery level getting low. It just unfortunate timing that as redirected my attention from the screen to the Phantom for landing, the RTH activated.

It feel for you, man! Clearly, the well meaning, but misnamed Smart Return Home feature crashed your aircraft. Had it been turned OFF in the app, this never would have happened! Whatever the outcome with DJI, make sure to turn this silly Stupid Return Home feature off on your new bird. Even if inexperienced, you are far smarter than Smart Return Home ever was or will be!

 

[GadgetGuy]

I'm pretty sure that is not the case... my iPad has no GPS or cellular, and I turn all radios off when I fly. How would the controller get any location data from an iPad that has no location awareness? Answer: it doesn't. My guess is the controller and quad use the WiFi signal strength and latency to calculate distance from pilot (controller) to the quad. Since radio frequency waves travel through the open air at a know speed it's a simple calculation to measure distance using RF signaling. That is the principle location is calculated on all GPS and cellular devices. It is a curious note however, how the quad calculates the location of the controller. Again, since it knows precisely where it is in 3D space from its own GPS, it has at least two vectors, relative altitude and distance by which to calculate the location. Technically the quad needs at least three points to calculate a vector to the controller's location.... makes me believe the controller might be smarter than we think.

Meta4 conceded above that the distance from the controller cannot be measured without GPS in either the tablet or the controller. The Inspire controller has built in GPS. The Phantom controllers do not. Therefore, the only way for GPS to be available for the P3 controller is through the tablet. No Wifi-only iPad has built-in GPS. However, with an external BT GPS device paired with a Wifi-only iPad, GPS is available to the iPad, and can be used by the app to locate the controller for purposes of providing the bird to controller distance, and resetting the Home Point to the controller, and using Follow Me.

So, the short answer is that the distance from the controller to the aircraft is completely dependent upon GPS being available in either in the controller or the tablet. Unless you have a cellular iPad, or are using an external BT GPS with your Wifi only iPad, you cannot use Follow Me, and cannot reset the Home Point to the controller location, and cannot accurately display controller to bird distance, unless the controller is still at the Home Point. If you are using an Android tablet with built-in GPS, or have an external BT GPS paired with your non-GPS Android tablet, you are golden, as is Meta4, as he apparently is using an Android table with built-in GPS.

 

[HWCM]

Get one of these and stick it in your ear, you will never miss a voice prompt again. ;-)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013WG5JIG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[AJAX-14]

So, the short answer is that the distance from the controller to the aircraft is completely dependent upon GPS being available in either in the controller or the tablet.

With all due respect, that is ridiculous. My tablet doesn't have GPS, and if, as you say, my Phantom controller doesn't have GPS either, how do all those feature you say won't work without GPS on my iPad seem to work just fine without GPS?

 

[Meta4]

With all due respect, that is ridiculous. My tablet doesn't have GPS, and if, as you say, my Phantom controller doesn't have GPS either, how do all those feature you say won't work without GPS on my iPad seem to work just fine without GPS?

If you do not have GPS available to the app, those features won't work.
If you have those features, you have GPS.
Are you sure you can reset home point to the current location of the controller?
How about follow me flying?
What model iPad do you have?