There is nothing more permanent that a temporary government program... The restrictions will never ease. They will only get worse.
There is nothing more permanent that a temporary government program... The restrictions will never ease. They will only get worse.
Then wouldn't the front and the roof of most people's houses be a moot point as well? If I'm shooting a house for a RE Agent and get the front of house or the neighbor's roof then I should be OK since those are "publicly" able to be viewed from any street. If they have a privacy fence up and I'm shooting the hose next door and accidentally get their backyard then I can see where I would need to crop it out but other than that ...NO!
...I read the Chapter 934 "SECURITY OF COMMUNICATIONS; SURVEILLANCE",
section 934.50 "Searches and seizure using a drone." through, and it appears (to me; however, I am not a lawyer) that the entirety of 934.50 pertains exclusively to law enforcement agencies, including Homeland Security for evidence gathering and incident prevention and not civilian users (ie. not commercial drone users or drone hobbyists). Can someone confirm?
Q: who here (in this Forum) is keeping track of restrictive drone hobbyist laws passed at the Municipal, County and State levels?
I'm not keeping track of other states, but closely watching mine. Droning here in Oregon is great and overall very accepted.
Its pretty clear the media has (and has had), from reading this and several other threads discussing the same, the general public in fear. Just because these guys are on TV telling you what you can't do, doesn't mean it's true. Yet so many on this forum swear their gonna get thrown in jail for flying their drone in the wrong manner. I wish there was a one stop for all, oh wait there is, it's called the FAA, who could clear all this up. I guess it's just too hard for some to sit and read the real documents. Instead they jump on a forum and read something someone just posted that they heard on the 5 o'clock news.
I try and keep my personal beliefs and opinions out of my post and try to only post facts. Yet some just will not accept that, they indeed can fly over their neighbors house..... Or they can "legally" (lol) fly around the space needle....... The droners flying in fear are not going to exercise or stand up, for that matter, for their rights. This could start a trend, (if it all ready hasn't) where anyone who doesn't like the presence of a drone, could very easy take action to remove it.
Im challenging ALL droners to challenge their state and municipal drone regulations!!! Call them today! Go down and talk with whoever you need to. Schedule a sit down with your mayor. Ask questions and see how the FAA is supporting their rules!
Its pretty clear the media has (and has had), from reading this and several other threads discussing the same, the general public in fear. Just because these guys are on TV telling you what you can't do, doesn't mean it's true. Yet so many on this forum swear their gonna get thrown in jail for flying their drone in the wrong manner. I wish there was a one stop for all, oh wait there is, it's called the FAA, who could clear all this up. I guess it's just too hard for some to sit and read the real documents. Instead they jump on a forum and read something someone just posted that they heard on the 5 o'clock news.
I try and keep my personal beliefs and opinions out of my post and try to only post facts. Yet some just will not accept that, they indeed can fly over their neighbors house..... Or they can "legally" (lol) fly around the space needle....... The droners flying in fear are not going to exercise or stand up, for that matter, for their rights. This could start a trend, (if it all ready hasn't) where anyone who doesn't like the presence of a drone, could very easy take action to remove it.
Im challenging ALL droners to challenge their state and municipal drone regulations!!! Call them today! Go down and talk with whoever you need to. Schedule a sit down with your mayor. Ask questions and see how the FAA is supporting their rules!
You're 934.50 link is to the 2013 statutes. You need to look at the current (2016) statutes. In June of 2016, 934.50 Section 3, paragraph B became effective:
(3) PROHIBITED USE OF DRONES.—
(a) A law enforcement agency may not use a drone to gather evidence or other information.
(b) A person, a state agency, or a political subdivision as defined in s. 11.45 may not use a drone equipped with an imaging device to record an image of privately owned real property or of the owner, tenant, occupant, invitee, or licensee of such property with the intent to conduct surveillance on the individual or property captured in the image in violation of such person’s reasonable expectation of privacy without his or her written consent. For purposes of this section, a person is presumed to have a reasonable expectation of privacy on his or her privately owned real property if he or she is not observable by persons located at ground level in a place where they have a legal right to be, regardless of whether he or she is observable from the air with the use of a drone.
And, for what it's worth, Orlando just passed their own anti-drone laws - even more restrictive, and against the protest of the droning community. (a) A law enforcement agency may not use a drone to gather evidence or other information.
(b) A person, a state agency, or a political subdivision as defined in s. 11.45 may not use a drone equipped with an imaging device to record an image of privately owned real property or of the owner, tenant, occupant, invitee, or licensee of such property with the intent to conduct surveillance on the individual or property captured in the image in violation of such person’s reasonable expectation of privacy without his or her written consent. For purposes of this section, a person is presumed to have a reasonable expectation of privacy on his or her privately owned real property if he or she is not observable by persons located at ground level in a place where they have a legal right to be, regardless of whether he or she is observable from the air with the use of a drone.
This is why, everytime I see the "drone police" here bashing users who post experiences that may violate the FAA guidelines, I chuckle. They say, "Your flying is going to kill our hobby". NO. IT. WONT. Every single drone operator could fly with 100% compliance, and do NOTHING reckless, and STILL .gov will continue to tighten the noose on this hobby. Pretty soon, you won't be able to fly ANYWHERE - and it will have nothing to do with actual events.
This is the typical politician trying to appear to be concerned about an issue that isn't an issue. First it was because of security. Then it was privacy. Then protecting wildlife. Then protecting national monuments. I'm just waiting for a politician to claim "drones are being used by pedophiles, and if this new law saves just one child..." - when that happens, I know it'll be time to hang it up. And that day is coming - no mater how good and well-behaved we all are.
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I agree with everything you say @Helihover, and I hate to be a downer, but that's exactly what took place in Orlando. There were a number of us who rallied before this law was passed. Phone calls, emails, visits with staff - and in the end, we were pushed aside.
The only thing that would stop this kind of reckless, unconstitutional overreach by .gov (whether local, state, or fed) is if those that sponsor and vote in favor of it are held PERSONALLY liable for litigation costs when the courts find the law to be illegal. That will never happen. IF it gets overturned on judicial review, those politicians and city administrators (including the city attorney that signed off on it) will have moved on - and even if not, the taxpayer picks up the tab. There is NO incentive for these hacks to abide by the Constitution.
ETA: I don't know if DroneWatchDogs - Drone Reviews, Drone News, Forums & Drone Chat Room is any good, but the claim to keep tabs on what's going on with drone news. They had the Orlando story listed as well. Might be a nice place to check every few days. If you find something pending that warrants forum participation, maybe a shout-out to the masses here.
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Thanks for the clarification.
Now, under the above broad-stroke, it could be argued that no one engaged in hobby drone flying (read: not flying under the (4) EXCEPTIONS clause) can fly a drone anywhere in Florida, because of the wide-angle nature of the drone camera (ie. as soon as you lift off to about 40 to 60 feet, you are immediately capturing hundreds of acres of FOV). The only exception to this is: if the drone hobbyist is bounded by substantial public parkland and is launching from his/her owned property, or is flying on an extremely large private property in excess of several hundred acres; or is flying on a public beach-head with the drone camera facing exclusively and strictly out to sea.
This Florida-wide 2016 Statute(s) is one of the most draconian "laws" I have ever read (with the exception of laws passed by 3rd World countries I have worked in that were ruled by regimes with hellacious human rights violation records). This is very interesting because there is no prescription for areas to be designated as "hobbyist drone flyways". IF these genre of laws spread across the US, I'm afraid that the hobby of drones flying with cameras (cameras of any kind) will all but dry up. Ie. if the intent of this law is to render hobbyist camera-drone flying so fraught with potential liability, any drone flier flying in Florida will risk absolute financial ruin IF he/she makes even a benign navigational error, or manufacturer installed "emergency algorithms" errors would potentially imperil ANY hobbyist flier (and, place the drone manufacturer at liability risk) into financial ruin.
I suppose that the only safe way for a hobbyist to fly a drone, is to take out just-in-time liability and privacy invasion insurance for the specific time/place the hobbyist plans to fly in/at (this hobbyist drone insurance is now available as a phone app).
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N017RW
Premium Pilot
I live in Fla but I don't conduct surveillance.
Just go fly and don't surveil anyone.
Seek professional advice and not that of the iLawyers.
Just go fly and don't surveil anyone.
Seek professional advice and not that of the iLawyers.
...the "surveillance" wording is so broad, it could be debated in court for days, costing the defendant $ dearly, yes?
N017RW
Premium Pilot
So, you're posting legal advice on the internet. A bit ironic, no?
Or are you saying we shouldn't discuss legal issues because we're not qualified to do so (without the assistance of a $200/hr consultant)? How about this... You don't like it, move along and don't contribute? Fair?
Read the above. We are discussing the potential collapse of the hobbyist photo drone realm because if ill-conceived and over-stepping laws (to put it mildly). There is absolutely no legal advice being proffered nor inferred in this discussion.
erkme73 and I will continue to discuss this issue. If anyone doesn't subscribe to the discussion and can't bear the subject, an unsubscribe from Thread provision should exist in this Forum?
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N017RW
Premium Pilot
Sounds like you need a new hobby other than the internet. Have you ever considered that some of those laypersons may actually be lawyers?
....OK, cool.
Personally, (not legal advice) I would like to see actual case outcomes resulting from this Statute. But in the interim, I will take out just-in-time situational hobby drone insurance for each flight in Florida I make.
Drone operation is much more than just a hobby, it's an industry that's gonna be around for a long time......
(copy/paste from another post but it's still my same words and they apply here)
What is happening is here is many people don't fully understand why/how hobbyists don't have the same rules as commercial operations. It's not because the FAA favors hobbyists at all. It's because in 2012 (before many here had even heard about an "R/C MultiRotor") Congress mandated that no new laws could be written to control hobby aircraft. This was in an attempt to save/protect the local flying clubs who have been flying safely for decades.
What didn't come into the equation (short coming by Congress) is that GPS flight controls, gyro stabilization and a whole slew of other technological advances would soon come to market. These new advances would make it to where the R/C enthusiast no longer needed to learn to fly, a long nice runway, or even be able to spell the word FLY in order to have an aircraft that could fly autonomously up to over 1,000'AGL and miles in any direction.
So in order to "allow" the FAA some degree of control they added the "commercial" aspect of R/C flight. Once you fall outside of the "Hobby" definition then you have to play by the FAA rules regardless if you like it or not.
So don't think that the FAA "wants" to basically ignore hobby flights but a shortsightedness caused this huge loop hole we have to jump through.
And some states are gonna try and get in on the ground floor of regulation... there's money in those drones!
