Litchi/AutoPilot Apps void your warranty

[norcalTy]

I would suggest reading all of the legal info regarding he warranty. Im pretty sure they are not idiots and put something in there regarding third party software and parts.

To all who think this should be covered.
Imagine you manufactured these but were encouraging development through the SDK.
Wouldn't you want to protect yourself. I mean anyone can make a P3/P4 compatible app with the SDK. How on earth could a company warranty random people making software with the SDK. IF you want to point the finger point it at the third party app. 99.99% of companies (including vehicles) will deny warranty if there needs to be a repair and the cause of the repair is because of a third party thing. Its kind of common sense.

This thread is going no where at this point.

Then it's legally in their court to actually state that it voids the warranty. Also, it's something that they should force any app developers to state in their apps since they provide the SDK. Not stating so leaves them open for lawsuits. They can be sued in small claims by individuals. The more popular they get the closer to a class action lawsuit once they are a big enough target for the lawyers to care.

 

[norcalTy]

I love these types of posts. "I'd tell DJI you're gonna file a lawsuit!" "You should speak with an attorney!"

But this one takes the cake:

Yeah I'm sure the AG's office will spring into action here. Please record how that phone call goes. I'd love to hear how hard they laugh. Gimme a break.

Also, If you think DJI cares about a BBB rating you're out of your mind. Quite frankly, the BBB is a complete joke in itself. Do some research on them.

DJI sucks and everyone who buys their products knows (or should know) if/when their product fails, you're on your own for the most part. This is a well known fact. Has been for years.


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots mobile app

Also, I'd like to mention I filed a complaint with my AG against Sony because I had two Playstations fail with the same issue within two weeks of each other. Both were denied repair by Sony. After the AG contacted Sony they sent me two new Playstations. So stuff your whole "but this one takes the cake" because you clearly know nothing about the process.

 

[tcope]

I would suggest reading all of the legal info regarding he warranty. Im pretty sure they are not idiots and put something in there regarding third party software and parts.

Nope. There is nothing in there that excludes coverage for using a 3rd party app. It would be a little strange that DJI actually creates the ability to use a 3rd party app but would then void their warranty if used. DJI's warranty is _terrible_. The people who wrote it should be fired. It does not even come close to the requirements of the Magnuson-Moss Act. Not even close.

 

[tcope]

If there is not device and the 3rd party app does not record logs then how can we warranty the AC? People could just say the craft went down and we would be handing over free Phantoms to everyone.

Then it's up to DJI to put this in their warranty. How easy is that. I could do it in about 2 minutes using less than 5 sentences. It's actually what is _required_ by law for DJI to do if they don't want to provide coverage in those situations.

DJI creates the SDK with the intent for 3rd parties to make apps and for customers to use these 3rd party apps, they don't exclude warranty coverage in any way when these 3rd party apps are used but they still think they can ignore the warranty they offer?

I have no problem with DJI excluding coverage for 3rd party apps in certain situations. But it's beyond insulting when they try to deny valid warranty claims... and lie to customers in the process.

 

[tcope]

I love these types of posts. "I'd tell DJI you're gonna file a lawsuit!" "You should speak with an attorney!"

How about the ones where the person _does_ actually file a lawsuit against DJI for breach of warranty? In my case it appears that they are simply going to allow a default judgement and then ignore that.

 

[tcope]

The SDK cannot force the app to write logs in your chosen format? Seems like a rigged game.

Fix the SDK, or make it abundantly clear to your customers at the time of purchase that they're screwed if something goes wrong using an app whose development you facilitated and encouraged.

Of course DJI can make all of that a requirement. They have the developers sign an agreement and it can simply be included in that agreement. Its _that_ easy. It's also as easy as you mention... simply correct the warranty to exclude certain coverage when 3rd party apps are used and the logs are not available. DJI chooses (probably out of ignorance not over sight) not to do this.

I've already documented one situation where they changed the warranty without letting anyone know.

 

[blade strike]

Then it's up to DJI to put this in their warranty. How easy is that. I could do it in about 2 minutes using less than 5 sentences. It's actually what is _required_ by law for DJI to do if they don't want to provide coverage in those situations.

DJI creates the SDK with the intent for 3rd parties to make apps and for customers to use these 3rd party apps, they don't exclude warranty coverage in any way when these 3rd party apps are used but they still think they can ignore the warranty they offer?

I have no problem with DJI excluding coverage for 3rd party apps in certain situations. But it's beyond insulting when they try to deny valid warranty claims... and lie to customers in the process.

Did I say they excluded 3rd party apps?! They will need the crafts logs of the 3rd party app doesn't log. Even in most cases they require the crafts logs. So tbh it's a moot point.

 

[nemoeac]

3rd part apps do not void warranty unless logs show bad commands caused by the app or poor mobile device GPS.

If there is not device and the 3rd party app does not record logs then how can we warranty the AC? People could just say the craft went down and we would be handing over free Phantoms to everyone.

But the OP stated that he had the litchi logs and could/did provide them.

When I first started using AutoPilot, I was disappointed to find that my flights did not appear in my flight record that I can view from within DJI go. I even opened a ticket asking them to find a way to make that happen. Their response was that they have been asking DJI for a way to do this but so far DJI has not provided one. I expect that this is also true with Litchi.

So - if DJI is going to say that the Litchi/Autopilot log files are not "good enough" - then DJI really should be working towards giving the 3rd party apps guidance and instruction on what they need to include/encrypt in order to make them "good enough" instead of just using it as a convenient excuse to get out of honoring a possibly-valid warranty claim on defective hardware.

 

[tcope]

Did I say they excluded 3rd party apps?! They will need the crafts logs of the 3rd party app doesn't log. Even in most cases they require the crafts logs. So tbh it's a moot point.

DJI is free to exclude warranty coverage when it can't be shown that there was a defect. They _cannot_ exclude coverage for using a 3rd party app (you agree... DJI repair center does not) and DJI can't consider that there are no craft logs in 3rd party apps to exclude coverage under the warranty (which they have done). So there really is no problem with 3rd party apps not creating craft logs. It's no defense of any kind in this situation.

DJI _could_ easily require all 3rd party developers to include craft logs, they could probably edit the SDK to make this happen and they could always add a few lines to the warranty to address this situation.

I understand what you are saying and, to be honest, I'd really like to completely disagree... but I can't. If the customer can't produce the Phantom then I agree that DJI should be able exclude coverage. In that the Go app creates a way for the customer to show the reason for the failure only _helps_ the customer. If 3rd party apps don't create those logs this just puts the customer back into the same place they were before the additional benefit of the Go app. I'd can only say that DJI should either require those craft logs in 3rd party apps (and they can do this) or add the exclusion note to the warranty. Seems fair that a customer should be made aware that the 3rd party app DJI allows to be used may not afford the same warranty coverage. Lacking that warning or exclusion and I'd say DJI has yet another problem with their warranty.

Thanks for your time and consideration in this forum, Blade Strike. It's much appreciated.

 

[Tenly]

Not always do the mobile craft logs provide enough data. This is why the craft logs are required for most if not all warranty claims.

3rd party apps are not capable of communicating directly with the drone. They can only communicate with the SDK, and then the SDK sends any valid, required commands to the drone.

In this model, the 3rd party app is an extension of the pilot and the actual human pilot agrees to take responsibility for any commands the app sends to the drone as if they had sent them themselves. The only alternative to this is to not use the 3rd party app. If the 3rd party app contains a bug and sends commands to the drone that causes it to crash - that is rightfully considered "pilot error" and DJI would not (and should not) be responsible for the repairs.

However - if the drone fails to respond to the inputs sent to it by the SDK - or a DJI software bug in the SDK misinterprets the commands sent by the 3rd party app - and results in a crash. Those are both examples in which the DJI warranty would be expected to apply.

The first one is easy enough to determine. DJI produces the SDK and has full control of the code that communicates with the drone. With a very small amount of development effort, the SDK can write a log file which contains every command that the 3rd party app sends to the SDK - and it can (and should) log every command that it sends to the drone. This should not be the responsibility of the 3rd party app author. It should be built right into the SDK. It should also be encrypted and impossible to disable. The app itself may want to write its own log file that logs information about what the user does in the UI and perhaps even maintain its own copy of what it sends and receives from the SDK - but none of that could or should be used to evaluate warranty claims (except perhaps to prove that the app sent a command and the SDK ignored it).

There is no "probably" about it. DJI has the capability in the SDK to write these logs but they have chosen to release the SDK without log writing which should be a mandatory process. Until they start maintaining proper logs DJI should not be I think they should not be able to deny a repair due to lack of sufficient logs.

For DJI to get a full picture of what happened in any given flight, they need both the logs from the drone itself as well as the logs from the phone or tablet that was being used to control it.

To summarize:
- DJI is responsible for warranty repairs on warranted hardware no matter what app you are using when the hardware malfunctions
- DJI is responsible for crashes caused by programming errors in the DJI Go app, any DJI Firmware and/or the DJI SDK
- DJI is NOT responsible for logic or communications errors in the 3rd party app itself
- DJI is NOT responsible for logic or communications errors inside the head of a human pilot

It's all common sense really.

If the root CAUSE of the crash came from a components under full DJI control - the repair will be covered by your warranty.

If the root CAUSE of the crash was due to an unauthorized repair, a piece of non-DJI software or a non-DJI part (i.e. Prop, battery, landing gear, etc)

But the key word above is CAUSE. Simply using a non-DJI component or piece of software does NOT void your warrant. It also has to be the part that CAUSED the crash. (I.e. After market landing gear will not cause an ESC failure. If an ESC failure causes a crash - it doesn't matter that not all parts are authentic DJI parts. The repair is still covered - BUT don't expect DJI to replace your aftermarket Carbon Fibre props or the GPS tracker you had attached!

But here's hoping that nobody reading this ever has to find out for themselves!