License or no license?

[sgf]

A guy I work with went to the a graduation yesterday. Since he knows I am interested in drones he was kind enough to send me these photos, which got me thinking.

I work at a small college. We had graduation in our auditorium Friday evening. It crossed my mind to bring my P3s and take pictures of the grads going into the building then upon exit as families greeted them, etc. I work for the college but would't expect or accept payment from the college or anyone else for doing this. Basically I just want to do something nice for the college and our graduates and show drones in a positive light. Since the college might use the pictures on the Website, etc. and I am a hobbyist operator with no commercial license, can I legally do this?

 

[N017RW]

Looks like an illegal flight in those photos. Flying over people.

You are an employee of the school?
Your flying with the intent of recording school activities?
I would say no the school cannot use your footage to further their business of educating paying customers because you are not accredited to do so.

 

[Crack The Sky]

A guy I work with went to the Liberty U graduation yesterday. Since he knows I am interested in drones he was kind enough to send me these photos, which got me thinking.

I work at a small college. We had graduation in our auditorium Friday evening. It crossed my mind to bring my P3s and take pictures of the grads going into the building then upon exit as families greeted them, etc. I work for the college but would't expect or accept payment from the college or anyone else for doing this. Basically I just want to do something nice for the college and our graduates and show drones in a positive light. Since the college might use the pictures on the Website, etc. and I am a hobbyist operator with no commercial license, can I legally do this?

N017RW is correct. For starters, the photo you are posting appears to be of illegal flying over people. For those who wish to argue that is is not, because he may be several feet to the side of the crowd,(difficult to determine from the photo), then wrap your mind around the fact that due to the proximity to the persons, it could still be considered a, "reckless and careless" operation by the FAA.
On to your question. Again, N017RW is correct. No, you may not.
The FAA Part 101 Recreational Rule is as follows:
What is the definition of recreational or hobby use of a UAS?
Recreational or hobby UAS use is flying for enjoyment and not for work, business purposes, or for compensation or hire. In the FAA's Interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft, the FAA relied on the ordinary, dictionary definition of these terms. UAS use for hobby is a "pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation." UAS use for recreation is "refreshment of strength and spirits after work; a means of refreshment or division."
The last word in the FAA quote, "division", I believe, is a misprint on their website. I believe the word should be, "diversion".

 

[Richard R]

+1 to the previous comments. About once a week we see a post on the forum asking about something like this where "no money would be exchanged". Just like N017RW and 'Crack in the Sky' said. Only 2 choices, its either hobby or its not and if not, you are under Part 107. No grey areas here.

 

[macoman]

+1 to the previous comments. About once a week we see a post on the forum asking about something like this where "no money would be exchanged". Just like N017RW and 'Crack in the Sky' said. Only 2 choices, its either hobby or its not and if not, you are under Part 107. No grey areas here.

Agreed, it's either hobby flying or 107. A school is not hobby type of flight. Even though not money is involved.

 

[Mike2A]

From an article I read a while ago, it was a discussion with an attorney who specialized in 'aviation law'...

The deciding factor in these cases is perceived intent; for instance, if I were attending an event and capturing video for my personal use/enjoyment and placed the footage in the public domain, where it was utilized by an entity for commercial purpose and where no tangible compensation was involved (being cited as the source of the video is not considered as compensation) it would typically not be considered commercial use under the FAA's regulation. On the other hand, if I were videoing something with the knowledge or intent that the material may be used commercially directly or indirectly, regardless of compensation this would be considered commercial. Additionally, in a case where you are an employee of the organization which will be using your footage in any fashion, it would be considered a work product and therefore commercial use.

 

[sgf]

Just for clarity, I asked the guy who sent me the pictures if the operator was flying over crowds, since it looked that way to me too. He responded that he was over a large open field with no people under him. This was well before graduation began. President Trump was the commencement speaker so I'm confident the rules were being strictly followed.

Regarding my question, It sounds like I can't do it. I did read other threads on the forum about roofers, etc. I guess I was thinking this was an exception since it was more for graduates and their families to enjoy rather than for promoting or recruiting for the college. Since it could be perceived as "furthering the business of the college" as N017RW said, since it would be on the Website, I guess I can't do it. It is disappointing and seems a bit much but I can see where the line has to be drawn somewhere. I'm not looking to break rules. I didn't get the answer I wanted but I appreciate everyone's input.

 

[Drusha]

I wouldn't even atempt it without insurance in case it went horribly wrong you would get slaughtered especially in your country ,if they will insure you and deem it to be non commercial and you keep within f.a.a guidelines of distance to inhabitants or groups of people then you have a good arguement,however is it worth the hassle , it does not matter how much you do to shed a positive light it only takes one no brain to ruin it for everyone as usual !we are all judged by the one idiot amongst us always )0:

 

[Richard R]

I wouldn't even atempt it without insurance in case it went horribly wrong you would get slaughtered especially in your country ,if they will insure you and deem it to be non commercial and you keep within f.a.a guidelines of distance to inhabitants or groups of people then you have a good arguement,however is it worth the hassle , it does not matter how much you do to shed a positive light it only takes one no brain to ruin it for everyone as usual !we are all judged by the one idiot amongst us always )0:

Doesn't make any difference how an insurance company might classify it. It's still Part 107 under federal rules! And, yes, one "oh, sh*}*#%" can wipe out a thousand "at a boy"s.

 

[BigAl07]

This was well before graduation began. President Trump was the commencement speaker so I'm confident the rules were being strictly followed.

I'm surprised they even allowed this flight of President Trump was even in the area. Usually his position is a TFR of about 30miles.

I did read other threads on the forum about roofers, etc

Many of those are doing this VERY much illegally but they really don't think it will be "them" to get in trouble. They may be right since their jobs are rarely around people or anything. Usually if no incident and no complaints no one ever knows anything different.

I guess I can't do it. It is disappointing and seems a bit much but I can see where the line has to be drawn somewhere. I'm not looking to break rules. I didn't get the answer I wanted but I appreciate everyone's input.

I have to say this is one of the most polite, mature, and intelligent response I've seen in a long time. Well done sir. Very well played.

 

[Andy-M]

Just make your own official looking "License"..... McLovin style.

 

[skyacramer]

You can of course take pictures of it and show everyone, post it on Instagram and face book and if someone asks for it give them the crapy Instagram thumbnail version. Not in any business means but as, let me look at this picture for 6 seconds and never think of it again...

 

[hitechrob]

Money being exchanged has nothing to do with hobbits vs. Commercial classification.

 

[Russ43Phantom]

This discussion is more proof that ALL pilots (recreational or commercial) need to have basic instruction on the FAA rules on safe operation. DJI and other manufacturers need to put "invisible fences" (let's say 100' high, 500' away to assure VLOS) around prosumer and above products like the Mavic and Phantom. If you pass the test, and register your drone, the fence is removed. If you pass a more thorough test for commercial pilots, you get your RPIC license and can barter or charge for your video or images.

 

[Ste]

Not ideal. Personally if I was asked to film that event and got permission I would have had a large cordoned off area and my drone wouldn't have left it.

Yes, there are no rules about a cordoned off area but common sence says "Stay Safe" and "Keep others Safe."

It's not unheard of that a drone goes faulty.

 

[Mystic Sky Media]

We all use the word "commercial" in conversation about drone work, but the word "commercial" is not accurate and is misleading. The FAA has two classifications: hobby/recreational and non-hobby/recreational. If you are flying/photographing for one's own enjoyment, then it is hobby/recreational. If you are taking a photo for someone else, it is not hobby/recreational (with or without compensation). Also, your aircraft must be registered for "non-hobby/recreational" if you are flying for other than your personal enjoyment.

If you have ever attended an FAA seminar, the speakers are very specific about this distinction.

If the photo is for the school, then you must be licensed, so there's your first violation. The stadium shot is a clear violation, restricted 3 hours prior to a stadium event. President Trump has a 30 mile TFR for 24 hours prior to an event, so another clear violation. The FAA has inspectors who troll YouTube and other sites looking for violations such as this. I would not have this photo online, or be the original poster of this thread, because I don't have $30,000 cash laying around to pay in fines.

When it doubt, whip it out. The B4UFly app, that is. (personally I prefer AirMap)

 

[skypuppy]

If not for the <censored> <censored> TFR <censored>, IMO you can get the photos and videos and share them with whomever you choose. You just can't charge money for them. I am 107 certificated and I have attended many FAA and other seminars where this issue was discussed. Just don't fly over the people or anywhere near enough that if something went wrong, it could fly or fall onto someone

 

[SteveMann]

If not for the <censored> <censored> TFR <censored>, IMO you can get the photos and videos and share them with whomever you choose. You just can't charge money for them. I am 107 certificated and I have attended many FAA and other seminars where this issue was discussed. Just don't fly over the people or anywhere near enough that if something went wrong, it could fly or fall onto someone

Money, or lack of it, has absolutely nothing to do with the determination of whether a flight is commercial.

 

[DRR]

A guy I work with went to the Liberty U graduation yesterday. Since he knows I am interested in drones he was kind enough to send me these photos, which got me thinking.

I work at a small college. We had graduation in our auditorium Friday evening. It crossed my mind to bring my P3s and take pictures of the grads going into the building then upon exit as families greeted them, etc. I work for the college but would't expect or accept payment from the college or anyone else for doing this. Basically I just want to do something nice for the college and our graduates and show drones in a positive light. Since the college might use the pictures on the Website, etc. and I am a hobbyist operator with no commercial license, can I legally do this?

Are you for real? Have a look at the rules. You cant fly less than 30 metres from people or 150 metres from events like this as far as I know.
this is why we have licensing so you can brush up on the rules. Bloody idiots. You know this is now allowed or you wouldn't have asked.

 

[DRR]

Just for clarity, I asked the guy who sent me the pictures if the operator was flying over crowds, since it looked that way to me too. He responded that he was over a large open field with no people under him. This was well before graduation began. President Trump was the commencement speaker so I'm confident the rules were being strictly followed.

Regarding my question, It sounds like I can't do it. I did read other threads on the forum about roofers, etc. I guess I was thinking this was an exception since it was more for graduates and their families to enjoy rather than for promoting or recruiting for the college. Since it could be perceived as "furthering the business of the college" as N017RW said, since it would be on the Website, I guess I can't do it. It is disappointing and seems a bit much but I can see where the line has to be drawn somewhere. I'm not looking to break rules. I didn't get the answer I wanted but I appreciate everyone's input.

This is ridiculous. Anyone can see he was flying over or near people which he is not allowed to do. Look at the rules. Its for safety, not the rules. Imagine what would happen if that drone came down. Imagine it getting out of control or hitting a bird and coming down. You cant fly anywhere near people or ovals with people. If I was there I would call the Police. Use your brain.