Ice crystals on P3 arms after foggy flight

[Sabino Diaz]

**** ! Another reason to paint the p3 black......look more like a predatory bird.

It works! Here is mine!

 

[louforgiveno]

It works! Here is mine!
View attachment 33434

Oh i know

My p2v......waiting to find a good price on p3 shell

 

[rickeyfitts]

Great video! Where is all the wood from? Saw some big birds flying shoreline midway through video.

It is amazing to actually see the huge amount of driftwood, mostly from trees, but there is a lot of lumber too, including massive beams, phone poles and other lumber-cargo lost from ships in storms and such. All in huge piles, and pretty-much safe from any scavanging because the paths down to the beach are really long and steep, and the surf is pretty rough for boat access.

In the video, you can see a few shots of the really cool driftwood structures and artwork that is all along the beach. Jo-Jo shot some ground-based video walk-thrus that are pretty cool -- one structure has 3 rooms, a "kitchen" area and dining room, complete w/ log-table and log-chairs. Another has been outfitted like a harem inside. All are quite elaborate pieces of art, and done with no tools, just folks arranging driftwood instead of building sandcastles.. 'sweet! I'll pull together another video from Jo-Jo's footage when I get a chance. Thx!

 

[Bryce]

First, I am very careful about where and when I fly, and I'd say that this is one of the least egregious of the dozens of "violations" I've read about on this forum -- the flight was in a deep canyon-beach with shear walls climbing well beyond my 400' on 3 sides, and the ocean on the 4th side. The was straight-up to 400' then straight down again, just to try and see how high the fog was, and the only people below for at least 100 yards in any direction were myself and Jo-Jo.

Still, I'm not one to knowingly violate rules without very careful consideration. I felt that I was taking a relatively small calculated risk to the 'Bird itself, and little or no risk to anyone else, when compared to any other typical flight (arguably safer than most totally "legal" flights due to the location and lack of other 'peeps). If I was aware of specific rules prohibiting UAEs flying in fog I would certainly not have stated that I had done so here, and I am unlikely to ever do such a flight again anyway (it was probably the least satisfying flight ever, and only worth mentioning because of the ice).

Second, I dug pretty deep into the FAA-UAE web pages and PDFs and could not find anything about flying a UAE in fog (Google can't even find the word "fog" on the FAA-UAE section of the website or in the FAQs, I couldn't find anything in the PDFs either, which don't appear to be real rules anyway, but rather recommendations and directions on future rulemaking, and "Know Before You Fly campaign" was a dead link).

I do share your concern about peceived damage by those who break "the rules"... but the closest thing I could find to "...FAA rules that specifically forbid flying a UAS in fog..." is the "strongly encouraged..." list with... "Keep the aircraft within visual line of sight at all times", a recommendation that I always carefully consider in every circumstance. If there is indeed an FAA prohibition on this, they sure make it hard to find -- can you point out where to find the specific FAA prohibition on flying in fog?

You don't need to explain yourselves to these folks. I've flown in fog... It IS worth the 'risk'... As low as it may be. Coming in and out of it offers some great views. I've had crystals as well... The bird is just fine. Keep,doing what you are doing!!!!

 

[Fourprops]

It works! No attacks since painting mine. Thinking of putting red eyes on the front.

Looks great! What paint did you use?

 

[LordEvil]

Looks great! What paint did you use?

Covered the vents with the blue masking tape. Painted the bird, then removed the tape and used cotton balls and spray painted the balls and splotched the vents, then touched up lightly. Covered the camera with two women socks.

 

[olof Ekbergh]

As far a the legality of flying in fog or even just behind a tree. It is illegal. The Model aircraft must always be in sight, and you must always have direct visual contact.

Flying FPV w/o a safety pilot is also illegal, there must always be eyes on the model aircraft. This is even stated in the DJI manual.

This is true for all drones, model helicopters and model airplanes. The AMA is a great place to learn about all the regulations. It is also illegal to fly above 400' AGL in the USA.

Personally I don't like to fly my P3P further out than about 1000' it is too easy to loose sight of it and hard to maintain orientation. Remember sooner or later you will loose the GPS and have to fly back in Atti mode. Ask me how I know.

I also have a S800 and that MR is much easier to fly further out to maybe 1200' or so because it is much bigger and has brighter Nav Lights.

Fly safe and respect the laws or we may all loose out.

 

[Pass_00]

Covered the vents with the blue masking tape. Painted the bird, then removed the tape and used cotton balls and spray painted the balls and splotched the vents, then touched up lightly. Covered the camera with two women socks.

Ok. Where do I find this stuff. That looks awesome man. Wonder if they sell it in Canada. This voids warranty I'm assuming?

 

[LordEvil]

Ok. Where do I find this stuff. That looks awesome man. Wonder if they sell it in Canada. This voids warranty I'm assuming?

Home Depot, you can order online.
As long as you don't open the shell it shouldn't void the warranty.

 

[skyeboysteve]

On closer inspection I was a bit surprised to find that the water droplets were actually small crunchy ice crystals that melted away in less than a minute.
The ambient temp. on the ground was around 64 degrees F. and once the fog burned away it was a perfect 76 degrees F. for the rest of the day. My wife theorizes that the wind from the props caused a chill-factor that froze condensation from the fog. I don't know.... 'whadda ya think?

Wind doesn't lower the temperature below the temperature of the air itself. Windchill is just the cooling effect on a body (trying to maintain an internal temperature of 98.6 degrees F) affected by surface area to volume ratio.

It's quite possible that the curvy surfaces of the arms, lowered the air pressure of the prop wash, thus reducing the temperature below freezing (boyle's law). It's a good thing your props didn't accumulate ice as that would greatly destroy any lift they'd otherwise create, as ice formation destroys the airfoil profile of the blades.

It's actually not uncommon for a carburetor to ice up in fog/clouds at 65F, unless carburetor heat is applied--thanks to the lowered air pressure.

 

[ParsnipHysorter]

As far a the legality of flying in fog or even just behind a tree. It is illegal. The Model aircraft must always be in sight, and you must always have direct visual contact.

Flying FPV w/o a safety pilot is also illegal, there must always be eyes on the model aircraft. This is even stated in the DJI manual.

This is true for all drones, model helicopters and model airplanes. The AMA is a great place to learn about all the regulations. It is also illegal to fly above 400' AGL in the USA.

Personally I don't like to fly my P3P further out than about 1000' it is too easy to loose sight of it and hard to maintain orientation. Remember sooner or later you will loose the GPS and have to fly back in Atti mode. Ask me how I know.

I also have a S800 and that MR is much easier to fly further out to maybe 1200' or so because it is much bigger and has brighter Nav Lights.

Fly safe and respect the laws or we may all loose out.

Not illegal. Not for hobbyists. How many times does this misconception get posted? Faa provides GuidelInes ONLY. Read yourself. Model Aircraft Operations

 

[olof Ekbergh]

All model pilots must follow these guidelines:

The 400' max altitude is part of the guidelines that must be followed.

These rules only become a problem if you break them and get caught. Like any laws.

You need to know if you do not follow these guidelines you are breaking the rules that we fly under. And that makes you liable to prosecution if you cause an injury or property damage.

By joining the AMA and becoming a local club member, you will learn about all this and meet some very nice fellow pilots. You also will get a $2,000,000.00 liability insurance for your operations as long as you follow all the rules. This even covers fly aways if you were operating according to the rules when it happened.

You can get more info here:
Academy of Model Aeronautics

The AMA is working very hard to rein in the somewhat draconian new measures the FAA and some law makers want to implement. The AMA is your lobbyist to keep this wonderful hobby alive and thriving.

Following these rules and supporting the AMA is in all our best interest to keep our privileges.

Olof Ekbergh
President MWVRCC
AMA leader Member
AMA Instructor

 

[happydays]

All model pilots must follow these guidelines:

The 400' max altitude is part of the guidelines that must be followed.

These rules only become a problem if you break them and get caught. Like any laws.

You need to know if you do not follow these guidelines you are breaking the rules that we fly under. And that makes you liable to prosecution if you cause an injury or property damage.

By joining the AMA and becoming a local club member, you will learn about all this and meet some very nice fellow pilots. You also will get a $2,000,000.00 liability insurance for your operations as long as you follow all the rules. This even covers fly aways if you were operating according to the rules when it happened.

You can get more info here:
Academy of Model Aeronautics

The AMA is working very hard to rein in the somewhat draconian new measures the FAA and some law makers want to implement. The AMA is your lobbyist to keep this wonderful hobby alive and thriving.

Following these rules and supporting the AMA is in all our best interest to keep our privileges.

Olof Ekbergh
President MWVRCC
AMA leader Member
AMA Instructor

Assuming every pilot lives in the USA? I don't. [emoji1]

 

[SteveMann]

As far a the legality of flying in fog or even just behind a tree. It is illegal. The Model aircraft must always be in sight, and you must always have direct visual contact.

Flying FPV w/o a safety pilot is also illegal, there must always be eyes on the model aircraft. This is even stated in the DJI manual.

This is true for all drones, model helicopters and model airplanes. The AMA is a great place to learn about all the regulations. It is also illegal to fly above 400' AGL in the USA.

Amazing. when you say "Is illegal", please quote the FAA rule that makes your imagined infraction "illegal"?
Just because an agency "considers" an activity is illegal doesn't make it so. What FAA rule is violated by flying a hobby drone in fog, above 400 ft, with FPV? Sorry to burst your bubble, but the AMA doesn't make the rules and violating the AMA rules is not a legal issue anywhere.

What's amazing is that this ridiculous statement comes from an AMA Instructor.

 

[olof Ekbergh]

If you violate these rules and get caught the FAA may came after you and you will have to go to court, this can be very expensive and time consuming. Typically this happens after someone has a mishap.

As an AMA instructor it is my duty to teach these rules and explain why they are there. Under no circumstances other than an emergency should you lose visual contact with your model period. This is part of the requirements from the FAA to fly model aircraft in the USA. We also spend a lot of time teaching pre and post flight checks as well as aircraft maintenance and Lipo care.

You may argue the FAA rules in court if you like. But the easiest way to stay out of court is to obey the reasonable rules, they make sense. There are lots of people that don't think it is legal to require drivers licenses or for the states or federal government to collect tax. You can argue that in court as well.

Lets try to keep our privileges by being smart about how we fly. Encouraging new pilots to fly dangerously is a very bad idea IMHO.

 

[L.Chaney]

Loose = not tight
Lose = did not win

It matters

 

[olof Ekbergh]

Loose = not tight
Lose = did not win

It matters

You are correct, I fixed the text. Got to love spell checkers, they sometimes auto correct in a funny way. I have to proof read more carefully.

Thanks.

 

[skyeboysteve]

If you violate these rules and get caught the FAA may came after you and you will have to go to court, this can be very expensive and time consuming. Typically this happens after someone has a mishap.

As an AMA instructor it is my duty to teach these rules and explain why they are there. Under no circumstances other than an emergency should you lose visual contact with your model period. This is part of the requirements from the FAA to fly model aircraft in the USA. We also spend a lot of time teaching pre and post flight checks as well as aircraft maintenance and Lipo care.

You may argue the FAA rules in court if you like. But the easiest way to stay out of court is to obey the reasonable rules, they make sense. There are lots of people that don't think it is legal to require drivers licenses or for the states or federal government to collect tax. You can argue that in court as well.

Lets try to keep our privileges by being smart about how we fly. Encouraging new pilots to fly dangerously is a very bad idea IMHO.

Then we should all live in little underground bunkers as hermits free from danger or offending anyone who thinks they have the right to enforce non-existent laws.

It's amazing to me how many laws that are actually ON the books, that are ignored and not enforced, while officials who should know better (whether police, FAA, etc) try to enforce laws that don't exist--a result of watching too many crime dramas on TV--thus dragging law-abiding citizens into poverty with ridiculous defense lawyer fees.

I don't see anyone advocating that anyone should fly "dangerously"--although that's a somewhat relative term.

But, we here in the US, have become brain-washed into loving a nanny-state--so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[ParsnipHysorter]

All model pilots must follow these guidelines:

The 400' max altitude is part of the guidelines that must be followed.

These rules only become a problem if you break them and get caught. Like any laws.

You need to know if you do not follow these guidelines you are breaking the rules that we fly under. And that makes you liable to prosecution if you cause an injury or property damage.

By joining the AMA and becoming a local club member, you will learn about all this and meet some very nice fellow pilots. You also will get a $2,000,000.00 liability insurance for your operations as long as you follow all the rules. This even covers fly aways if you were operating according to the rules when it happened.

You can get more info here:
Academy of Model Aeronautics

The AMA is working very hard to rein in the somewhat draconian new measures the FAA and some law makers want to implement. The AMA is your lobbyist to keep this wonderful hobby alive and thriving.

Following these rules and supporting the AMA is in all our best interest to keep our privileges.

Olof Ekbergh
President MWVRCC
AMA leader Member
AMA Instructor

I'm glad you toned down your terminology from "it is illegal" to "guidelines that must be followed", however you are still saying essentially the same thing with the word "must". It would be more accurate to say "should be followed" though I know that doesn't sound as harsh and therefore as likely to get compliance as invoking the fear factor by telling people it is illegal.

Just say what it is. It is NOT illegal. They are guidelines which SHOULD be followed. To say otherwise degrades your credibility and that of the AMA.

 

[olof Ekbergh]

These are FAA rules, just like the ones for private airplanes and air liners. Except we don't need a license for hobby use yet. I hope we don't get to the point when we do, but it may happen, this is one of the things the AMA is working to keep from happening.

Would you really like it if you could fly VFR anywhere. No such thing as IFR rules and ratings. All aircraft even in class G airspace (formerly called unregulated) must stay free from clouds with a minimum visibility of 1 mile in daytime, 3 at night, or you can't fly. See table and explanation:

These rules are here to keep us safe and separated from other air traffic, they make sense. I am an instrument rated private pilot as well with about 2000 hrs in single and multi engine planes. I follow all the rules there. One is really key. You must always be 500' away from any person or property. This basically means you can't fly below 500' except at airports. So keeping all model planes below 400' is a nice safe thing to do it allows for some differences in barometric pressure to keep separation. And this is why we have the 5 mile radius around airports.

One thing to notice is VFR day in type G airspace (most of the time from surface to 1200' AGL) planes only have to be clear of clouds, This means if you are flying a Drone in fog, w/o having it in sight, it may pop out of the top the fog right into a plane that is legally flying 10' above the top of the fog. These things happen fast. Basically model aircraft have to be flown VFR, Visual Flight Rule, always in sight.

These rules were created after many investigations into accidents and they all make sense. Flying anything in IFR conditions w/o being on an IFR flight plan is crazy, illegal and dangerous. And flying in clouds (fog) is IFR conditions. If you do and get caught, I think even a very good legal defense team could not help you.

I know we are off topic a bit. But I feel this is important to get this across, because a lot of new pilots read these boards and we need to help keep them safe and to keep our hobby safe from over regulation by having pilots operate recklessly.