How Low Are Drones Allowed to Fly?

[RamondHerrera]

Hello:

This is my first (and maybe last for a while) project that involves Aerial Photogrammetry. Our plan is to replicate and substantially improve the work done for the documentary PBS Nova Cold Case JFK. See videoclip.

The Work Done in 2013 Was Incomplete

Note: For that program, they only did the terrestrial component, and only 2 walls of the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) Building were included.

We have already located a company in the area. The part in which I am totally clueless is about the required permission(s). What organization issues those permissions? I am guessing FAA?

TIA

-Ramon F Herrera
JFK Numbers

 

[RamondHerrera]

Yes, the project is funded. I have to tell you that this is a one-person Not-for-Profit. What we have been offering to companies is a mix of cash, pro-bono and bragging rights.

The point cloud files obtained in 2013 were donated to my project (only condition: cannot be used for commercial gain). They are here:

Files Donated by the Producers of the PBS Program

This is some of what we have extracted from them.

Rendering of the TSBD Building

Would like to hear details.

My e-mail address is [email protected]

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

 

[Tenisyn]

As long as the building isn’t in controlled airspace, you should be fine. Check the location on a sectional chart (I use vfrmap.com but there are many others). If you are within controlled airspace around of airport, you can get permission using an FAA website, but your pilot has to have a 107. Calling the tower may work(not recommended) but if you’re going to go that route, please have an av radio and a visual observer.

 

[RamondHerrera]

As long as the building isn’t in controlled airspace, you should be fine. Check the location on a sectional chart (I use vfrmap.com but there are many others). If you are within controlled airspace around of airport, you can get permission using an FAA website, but your pilot has to have a 107. Calling the tower may work (not recommended) but if you’re going to go that route, please have an av radio and a visual observer.

Thanks so much. More questions: What is a "107"? A vendor just mentioned that.

Even in case that FAA permission is unnecessary (Love Field is not very close to Dealey Plaza), will we need city and/or county permits?

I guess I need a tutorial on how to interpret the charts found at vfrmap.com. I am guessing that the controlled airspace is displayed in yellow?

TIA

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

 

[Tenisyn]

A 107 is for all intents and purposes a drone pilot license. They’re required to fly in restricted air space. On the sectional chart, you can identify areas around an airport that are restricted by looking for blue or crimson “circles” (sometimes not). Solid blue circle = Class B inside. Solid crimson circle is Class C. Dashed blue = Class D and Dashed Crimson is Class E. I can look it up for you if you want to drop a lat/long on me.

 

[RamondHerrera]

On the sectional chart, you can identify areas around an airport that are restricted by looking for blue or crimson “circles” (sometimes not). Solid blue circle = Class B inside. Solid crimson circle is Class C. Dashed blue = Class D and Dashed Crimson is Class E. I can look it up for you if you want to drop a lat/long on me.

The location is "Dealey Plaza, Dallas, Texas". I typed that in Google Maps and got this URL:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/D...a47bf25b709fe0!8m2!3d32.7788184!4d-96.8082993

Is there a betterr way to determine lat/long? I seem to recall that with Google Earth it is easy to do it.

Thanks again,

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

 

[RamondHerrera]

I can look it up for you if you want to drop a lat/long on me.

There you go...

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

 

[RamondHerrera]

I was told by the Sixth Floor Museum, the location where president Kennedy was murdered in 1963 that they will not allow me to bring a Leica P40 Laser Scanner to the corner where the shooter was located.

See here what they have done in other projects:

Shooter is Outside the Building

I contacted a drone operator in Dallas (SkyLVL). They have the most advanced, airborne LiDAR. Ideally, I would like the fly path to go above the middle of Elm Street, at the height of the 6th. Floor:

Does that seem like a doable, prudent course?

TIA

-Ramon F Herrera
JFK Numbers

 

[N017RW]

Altitude is limited to 400ft AGL so height is not the issue when compared to a 6th floor. The operator will likely have to obtain permissions and/or waivers to operate in the area and with persons present.

 

[MapMaker53]

Seems to me that SkyLVL would be the ones to tell you if they have the proper FAA waivers and if they can take on the project. They as the drone operator would be the ones held responsible if they did anything illegal.

 

[BigAl07]

The answer to your "Topic Name" would be: all the way to Terra Firma.... the ground or ground based obstructions is the lower limit of how LOW a drone can fly. There is no stipulated lower limit since all must take off from ground level and "SHOULD" return to ground level.

I concur with what the others have stated but want to add...

If that is an open/active street they will have to coordinate with LEA there to close the street for the entirety of the flight over the street/sidewalk. Either the street and sidewalk will have to be cleared of all people and moving vehicles of they will have to submit for and get approval for a waiver to 107.39 Flights Over People

Section 107.39 Operation over human beings.
No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft over a human being unless that human being is:

(a) Directly participating in the operation of the small unmanned aircraft; or

(b) Located under a covered structure or inside a stationary vehicle that can provide reasonable protection from a falling small unmanned aircraft.

In regards to waivers... they are HARD to come by....

It's important to note that 107.39(a) means someone actually part of the Flight Crew directly responsible for the SAFE operation of the sUAS. There are no releases/approvals/permissions anyone on the ground can "Give" to allow flight over top of them. The FAA and only the FAA can "Waiver" 107.39 period!!

According to the FAA's database ( may or may not be completely Up To Date) there have only been 25 granted to date and many of those are to the same companies/person so much fewer than 25 companies/people have a waiver for 107.39.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/commercial_operators/part_107_waivers/waivers_issued/

 

[BigAl07]

This process will require you (or whoever is flying the aircraft) to have a Part 107 RPIC from the FAA. PArt 107 is a Remote Pilot In Command License or many call it a Drone license. This is required by Federal Law in the United States.

A good portion of obtaining this license is studying how to read Sectional Charts and how to fly SAFELY in the National Airspace System (NAS).

Google Earth isn't going to help you know what airspace the location is in or if it's even legal to fly sUAS in that space.

Good luck and SAFE FLIGHTS!!

 

[BigAl07]

I just now realized you have TWO threads going about the same topic... I'm going to COMBINE them as they both have pertinent information and the other one needs....

I see you're going to utilize SkyLVL to be your sUAS operators so THEY should have the needed Part 107 credentials.

 

[Deleted member 29014]

Hello:

This is my first (and maybe last for a while) project that involves Aerial Photogrammetry. Our plan is to replicate and substantially improve the work done for the documentary PBS Nova Cold Case JFK. See videoclip.

The Work Done in 2013 Was Incomplete

Note: For that program, they only did the terrestrial component, and only 2 walls of the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) Building were included.

We have already located a company in the area. The part in which I am totally clueless is about the required permission(s). What organization issues those permissions? I am guessing FAA?

TIA

-Ramon F Herrera
JFK NumbersView attachment 109736

Dealy Plaza is well into Dallas Ft. Worth (DFW) Class B airspace starting at the surface. You need to find a professional (FAA 107) UAS pilot to explain all this to you. I assumed SkyLvl explained all this?

 

[Deleted member 29014]

Seems to me that SkyLVL would be the ones to tell you if they have the proper FAA waivers and if they can take on the project. They as the drone operator would be the ones held responsible if they did anything illegal.

Aren't you getting the feeling..."something wrong here?

 

[RamondHerrera]

Aren't you getting the feeling..."something wrong here?

There is something wrong indeed, Luis. Definitely. My final objective, my goal in life is to clarify the death of president Kennedy, to solve it (numerical aspect ONLY). I was the first one to be shocked when I realized how close my unique approach is.

I am a software engineer, who has decided to become:

• A 3D designer

• Movie Maker

• Knowledgeable about terrestrial laser scanning and the aerial component.

• Very well informed about forensic pathology, specifically how to convert a set of X-rays into a 3D model, to be placed in the ultimate model of Dealey Plaza, with sub-milimeter and microsecond accuracy.

- Semi-Competent Video Editor

As hard to believe as it is, I am actually quite close. No, you will not hear about me in the media. It is my choice: suffice to say that it complicates matters to the extent of becoming impossible. Ronald Reagan had a nice maxim about it.

Don't we all agree with "The Best Consumer is an Educated Consumer"?

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

References:

My very first movie!
I decided to get into the used car salesman business

Stametement of Purpose

This is My YouTube Channel

Explanatory Thread in the Laser Scanning Forum

"Because I Just Invented It"

 

[RamondHerrera]

Hola, Luis:

The following is a follow-up project. After the most accurate 3D model of Dealey Plaza in history is done (Architecture Component), the next step will be the Medical Component. Illustrated below.

These two X-Rays:

[Pending]

Will converted to something like this.

Except that the work will take about 2-3 years, being the subject of a doctoral dissertation by these folks in Berlin:

3D Reconstruction of Anatomical Structures from 2D X-ray Images

I am proud to call that operation "The Ich bin ein Berliner Project"

My Ich bin ein Berliner Project

Muchas gracias for your interest, Luis!

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

ps: I am badly looking for competent, motivated volunteers. This is too important to be done by just one silly immigrant, an escapee from Chavezuela.

 

[Deleted member 29014]

There is something wrong indeed, Luis. Definitely. My final objective, my goal in life is to clarify the death of president Kennedy, to solve it (numerical aspect ONLY). I was the first one to be shocked when I realized how close my unique approach is.

I am a software engineer, who has decided to become:

• A 3D designer

• Movie Maker

• Knowledgeable about terrestrial laser scanning and the aerial component.

• Very well informed about forensic pathology, specifically how to convert a set of X-rays into a 3D model, to be placed in the ultimate model of Dealey Plaza, with sub-milimeter and microsecond accuracy.

- Semi-Competent Video Editor

As hard to believe as it is, I am actually quite close. No, you will not hear about me in the media. It is my choice: suffice to say that it complicates matters to the extent of becoming impossible. Ronald Reagan had a nice maxim about it.

Don't we all agree with "The Best Consumer is an Educated Consumer"?

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

References:

My very first movie!
I decided to get into the used car salesman business

Stametement of Purpose

This is My YouTube Channel

Explanatory Thread in the Laser Scanning Forum

"Because I Just Invented It"

Not what I meant, not questioning anything JFK related. (I suspect this posting will be moved to OFF TOPICS).

If you are retaining a Part 107 operator they should be answering your airspace questions, as the Pilot in Command of the UAS is the person held responsible by the feds.

Hopefully you have asked to see their FAA Part 107 credentials, Ramon.

 

[RamondHerrera]

Not what I meant, not questioning anything JFK related. (I suspect this posting will be moved to OFF TOPICS).

And I suspect that you are attempting to speak on behalf of the Moderators and the readers, estimado Luis.

Don't feel singled out, though! You are not the only one to become uncomfortable by the topic.

Why is it that if we are in a forum talking about fine cigars?

"Before signing the Cuban embargo, the president asked a member of his cabinet, Press Secretary Pierre Salinger, to gather as many Cuban cigars as he could during the weekend. He called all his cigar loving friends: 'These are for Kennedy. Hand them over'. Salinger collected a private stash of about 2,000. and the Embargo (still in force) was signed"

"Off topic!! Move it to OFF TOPICS!"
==============================
In a forum about used cars, I show this:

Nicely Rendered Used Lincoln Continental for Sale

"Off topic!! Move it to OFF TOPICS!"
==============================
A forum about movies:

"Did you know that Marylin Monroe ..."

"Off topic!! Move it to OFF TOPICS!"
==============================

and so on, could give dozens of examples.

The topic is 3D models of Plazas, buildings, cars and craniums. The reason for choosing a LiDAR drone (currently in St. Louis, coming to Texas for this specific project) that can park in front of a window. How to confront and obey legal and other kinds of regulations and obstacles (physical and procedural).

Anybody feeling uncomfortable you know what to do. By clicking elsewhere you are voting with your mouse. This is America.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers

 

[Nightwolf]

I believe the "something wrong" statement was aimed at the fact that you are talking to a pilot who should have a 107 but they didn't mention that it was restricted airspace. Any pilot worth their salt should be able to find that out in under a minute.