Hand Held Radios

[Forest Flyer]

Since, I became a UAV pilot a bit over a year ago, I have been astounded by the number of manned air-craft that are flying below 400 feet AGL. Although required to be 500 feet or more AGL over rural areas, fixed wing air-craft often are not. Helicopters seem to be able to fly at any altitude they feel like. All of this makes me nervous, when I am flying at 400 feet in areas where visibility is limited.

I am considering purchase of a hand-held radio, that can be dialed to the common aviation channel. I would then announce my presence before take-off and maybe during the flight. Is anyone doing this?

 

[Nightwolf]

not all aircraft monitor the radio. That's why we need to maintain a visual on our drones. Not sure what creds you need to broadcast but I'm sure they are there

 

[WetDog]

You have to have a 'tail number' (N-number). Which means you have to be part 107 certified. And, planes don't necessarily have to have a radio. Or be listening.

Even if you could talk to them and they listened, you STILL don't have right of way.

 

[BigAl07]

First of all it's nearly impossible to know an aircraft's "true" altitude without some serious training and or a reliable point of reference. When flying in rural areas we manned pilots don't talk on the radio unless we are near some type of runway/strip etc. I can fly for a couple of hours at 500'AGL and never talk to anyone on the radio until I'm near other traffic or a strip. We just don't talk on the radio "to be talking".

@Nightwolf hit the nail on the head. To merely "listen" you need nothing but to broadcast you will need some type of radio operator's license. If you're IN an airplane that license is tied to the aircraft itself but otherwise the individual needs an operators license from the FCC.

 

[N017RW]

You have to have a 'tail number' (N-number). Which means you have to be part 107 certified. And, planes don't necessarily have to have a radio. Or be listening.

Even if you could talk to them and they listened, you STILL don't have right of way.

A ‘tail’ number in and of itself does not convey terrestrial operator licensure. That only works if you are IN the aircraft.
The aircraft is the station and this holds the license not the operator.

The FCC has loosened requirements of the pilots holding the license but Ground Stations are still required to.

While ATC could not locate you as soon as you tried hailing them they’d tell you to cease immediately.

 

[Philsmith76]

In my area I use a handheld tuned to the local Unicom frequency. It is EXTREMELY helpful to situational awareness. Once you become familiar with the manned pilots calls being “surprised” by a aircraft rarely happens.

 

[Just_nick]

You can definitely use it to listen in, but announcing is a no-go. Also, even if you have the license to broadcast, you must still yield right-of-way to any manned aircraft. No if, and, or but about that.

 

[Forest Flyer]

Thanks for all of the clarifications. I guess announcing is not in the cards, but listening could be helpful, I have found that planes and helicopters can show up quite suddenly. I had a helicopter fly over my house at 100 feet AGL, going 60 knots. There is not much time, between detection and a possible collision. I thought the helicopter was flying outside of the rules, but as it turns out there really is no height restrictions for helicopters.

 

[Nightwolf]

Thanks for all of the clarifications. I guess announcing is not in the cards, but listening could be helpful, I have found that planes and helicopters can show up quite suddenly. I had a helicopter fly over my house at 100 feet AGL, going 60 knots. There is not much time, between detection and a possible collision. I thought the helicopter was flying outside of the rules, but as it turns out there really is no height restrictions for helicopters.

I seriously doubt he was talking on the radio at the time but listening could be helpful I'm sure. Just don't let it become a distraction nor a substitute for line of sight flying.

 

[barefootbeachcombing]

Thanks for all of the clarifications. I guess announcing is not in the cards, but listening could be helpful, I have found that planes and helicopters can show up quite suddenly. I had a helicopter fly over my house at 100 feet AGL, going 60 knots. There is not much time, between detection and a possible collision. I thought the helicopter was flying outside of the rules, but as it turns out there really is no height restrictions for helicopters.

And remember, as the remote pilot, it is ALWAYS your responsibility to "see and avoid" all manned air traffic regardless of how they are operating.

 

[Cellblock776]

I've brought up the low altitude flying in another thread. The problem I had was it wasn't just helos but I have fixed wings doing low, below 500', passes over my house daily doing "patrol"s of pipelines/powerlines. There is almost no warning time from before I see or hear them to get out of the way.
I use a SDR dongle attached to a tablet to monitor ADS-B TXs. As mentioned earlier, monitoring UNICOM for the area is not really of any use. I've monitored for years but it is not any help for avoiding the low flyers between airports.

 

[PeterGNJ]

Usually nothing worth listening to, I live not far from a few airports. They all have multiple frequencies. I might sell you mine Yaesu FTA-450L I think.

 

[Philsmith76]

For my specific area Unicom is very active. Pilots are announcing themselves in the area often. I really look forward to 2020 when a ADS-B solution can be relied on. There are MANY aircraft without it still. In my daytime waiver I stipulated I would have a radio active during operations so I used as a standard practice.

 

[N017RW]

For my specific area Unicom is very active. Pilots are announcing themselves in the area often. I really look forward to 2020 when a ADS-B solution can be relied on. There are MANY aircraft without it still. In my daytime waiver I stipulated I would have a radio active during operations so I used as a standard practice.

What is your definition of ‘relied upon’?
I ask because ADS-B will not be required on all aircraft operating in the US and certainly not in the airspace your drone does.

 

[Philsmith76]

Interesting. I stand corrected. You are right, not all aircraft will have ads-b per eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

I totally thought it’s was all aircraft all airspace would have ads-b. In my mind that sure puts a wrench in the whole “autonomous package delivery” business. Thought they would rely on that for their operations after 2020. So how is BVLOS going to use see and avoid.

 

[N017RW]

Interesting. I stand corrected. You are right, not all aircraft will have ads-b per eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

I totally thought it’s was all aircraft all airspace would have ads-b. In my mind that sure puts a wrench in the whole “autonomous package delivery” business. Thought they would rely on that for their operations after 2020. So how is BVLOS going to use see and avoid.

Don’t know as I have not looked into it deeply. Most of what you hear/read is not anything more than PR and comes from those who want to commercialize it not from regulatory entities.

 

[SteveMann]

Interesting. I stand corrected. You are right, not all aircraft will have ads-b per eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

I totally thought it’s was all aircraft all airspace would have ads-b. In my mind that sure puts a wrench in the whole “autonomous package delivery” business. Thought they would rely on that for their operations after 2020. So how is BVLOS going to use see and avoid.

Interesting. I stand corrected. You are right, not all aircraft will have ads-b per eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

I totally thought it’s was all aircraft all airspace would have ads-b. In my mind that sure puts a wrench in the whole “autonomous package delivery” business. Thought they would rely on that for their operations after 2020. So how is BVLOS going to use see and avoid.

By design/specification, ADSB is not guaranteed to work below 500 ft unless near an airport in Class B or Class C airspace. If you have something like a Stratux ADSB receiver then you can see data from ADSB-Out equipped aircraft that are within your line of sight. (Unless you are near an ADSB tower, then you can see everything in the air that is transmitting ADSB). Currently, not even all airlines are ADSB equipped. Also, if you think ADSB-Out on a drone will happen, remember that ADSB is an aircraft navigation system designed for manned aircraft. By 2020 all manned aircraft that are flying in airspace that requires a transponder must have an ADSB-Out installed. While a number of small aircraft owners are spending the extra $$ to add ADSB-In capabilities, receiving ADSB data is an expensive option. In other words if you somehow get the station license and FAA certification to put an ADSB-Out transmitter on your drone, there is absolutely no guarantee that any manned aircraft would ever know you are there.

When the entire ADS-B system is complete, coverage will look like this:

ADSB-final

• SteveMann
• May 12, 2018

Final coverage of ADSB

 

[tjshelton]

Since, I became a UAV pilot a bit over a year ago, I have been astounded by the number of manned air-craft that are flying below 400 feet AGL. Although required to be 500 feet or more AGL over rural areas, fixed wing air-craft often are not. Helicopters seem to be able to fly at any altitude they feel like. All of this makes me nervous, when I am flying at 400 feet in areas where visibility is limited.

I am considering purchase of a hand-held radio, that can be dialed to the common aviation channel. I would then announce my presence before take-off and maybe during the flight. Is anyone doing this?

I'm a Ham, so I use one of my handhelds to monitor local frequencies. However, my ham license doesn't give me privileges on the air bands. You might want to look at a receive only handheld scanner. A quick Google search turned up this one, but I suspect just about any handheld scanner would work just as well.

TSC-100RA Airband Scanner

 

[Arbutus]

In Canada, radio licensing is managed by Industry Canada and the airband licence is called a Restricted Operator Certificate - Air (ROC-A). Anyone operating commercially in Canada must hold an ROC-A to transmit. No license is required to listen on the airband frequencies. The ROC-A is a required part of the SFOC application (Canadian equivalent of the FAA exemptions) for the UAV pilot.

We very frequently encounter low flying aircraft during our UAV operations in rural areas in the Fraser Valley, BC. Both fixed wing and heli traffic are regularly observed at 200ft and sometimes lower, when pilots are practicing forced approaches and spiral dives over the fields. By very frequently, I mean several times per day when we are surveying fields. An approaching aircraft with its engine shut off is almost silent and is moving at 150MPH, so you don't have a lot of time to avoid. Even helis can be almost silent.

A VHF radio to announce the UAV location/intent and monitor manned traffic is a very serious requirement for safe operations. One pilot on the crew is not sufficient - you need competent attentive observers on the crew equipped with digital UHF radios for constant communications.

 

[Nick Mendocino]

I got an Icom handheld air band transceiver and keep it in my kit. I use it to monitor the local Unicom frequency so as to be better informed about nearby air traffic. I would transmit only in an emergency to prevent death or injury. Of course the first priority is to get the drone out of the way.