GPS SATS? why do I get so many?

[eurostylin]

You do realize that there are only a few places on earth that happen to see 13 SATS at any given time, correct?

Not correct. Everyone gets their fair share of sats. But the number varies with time.
There are more sats in the sky lately and you can get up to 16 sometimes.

Oh my... Without getting into details, I spend 40 hours a week designing products that require constant Navstar reception, and you are horribly incorrect and this whole thread is pointless because GPS count is soley dependent on your geographical location. That is what answers your silly question to begin with. Your phantom isn't special, and isn't doing something other phantoms won't, it's just that your location is good for reception,.

would also like you to show me a single spot in this world that is receiving 16 sat's at a single time. Here are some handy tools for you to spend your day with. haha

I use a commercial equivalent of this software: http://freegeographytools.com/2010/onli ... redictions
That free software is accurate, but not nearly reliable enough for my industry.


Here is a quick sat check online tool,
http://www.calsky.com/cs.cgi


I eagerly await your reply including a location that receives even 14 sats at one time using a 7.28 degree inclination industry standard.


Monday fun fact: my max reception at my office coordinates today is 10.. All day, I will have a max of 10 satellites at any given time and that will only occur for 00:17:10.2847 @ 18:30.019 EST. For 17 minutes, 10.2847 seconds I will have the ability to capture reliable data from 10 orbitals. I will have the ability to receive a max of 8 satellites for 13:48:84.2847 today. Over half of the day my location will only have reliable time stamps from 8 orbitals.

 

[Meta4]

Your phantom isn't special, and isn't doing something other phantoms won't, it's just that your location is good for reception.

Welcome to the thread eurostylin ... I never thought my Phantom was doing anything special. I would expect any Phantom to perform in a similar manner.

would also like you to show me a single spot in this world that is receiving 16 sat's at a single time.
I eagerly await your reply including a location that receives even 14 sats at one time using a 7.28 degree inclination industry standard.

I'm sorry I haven't got proof of a Phantom recording 16 sats but would 15 go halfway to satisfying you?

I have seen 16 a few times but haven't grabbed a screen shot of it yet.
FYI this is in eastern Australia
I have no idea if a Phantom uses an industry standard 7.28 degree inclination (or if it is relevant 3-400 feet up).
I'm just mentioning what the Phantom indicates - just as I did in the post you are referring to.
I don't have a doctorate in GPS physics but I do have 20 years experience using the things for work and your idea that some locations get better coverage than others makes no sense to me and is counter to my observations.
Given the way the earth is rotating inside a constellation of constantly moving GPS sats, I really can't see how you could believe otherwise.

I am extremely skeptical that GPS count is soley dependent on your geographical location but would appreciate any explanation of why you believe that to be correct.

 

[dalebb]

Just got back from lake tahoe and I got 10-11 sats up there on the shore.

 

[dalebb]

You do realize that there are only a few places on earth that happen to see 13 SATS at any given time, correct?

Not correct. Everyone gets their fair share of sats. But the number varies with time.
There are more sats in the sky lately and you can get up to 16 sometimes.

Oh my... Without getting into details, I spend 40 hours a week designing products that require constant Navstar reception, and you are horribly incorrect and this whole thread is pointless because GPS count is soley dependent on your geographical location. That is what answers your silly question to begin with. Your phantom isn't special, and isn't doing something other phantoms won't, it's just that your location is good for reception,.

would also like you to show me a single spot in this world that is receiving 16 sat's at a single time. Here are some handy tools for you to spend your day with. haha

I use a commercial equivalent of this software: http://freegeographytools.com/2010/onli ... redictions
That free software is accurate, but not nearly reliable enough for my industry.


Here is a quick sat check online tool,
http://www.calsky.com/cs.cgi


I eagerly await your reply including a location that receives even 14 sats at one time using a 7.28 degree inclination industry standard.


Monday fun fact: my max reception at my office coordinates today is 10.. All day, I will have a max of 10 satellites at any given time and that will only occur for 00:17:10.2847 @ 18:30.019 EST. For 17 minutes, 10.2847 seconds I will have the ability to capture reliable data from 10 orbitals. I will have the ability to receive a max of 8 satellites for 13:48:84.2847 today. Over half of the day my location will only have reliable time stamps from 8 orbitals.

well tonight while testing new batteries i got 13-14 sats. 14 lasted about ten minutes. :shock:

 

[erikgraham]

You do realize that there are only a few places on earth that happen to see 13 SATS at any given time, correct?

Not correct. Everyone gets their fair share of sats. But the number varies with time.
There are more sats in the sky lately and you can get up to 16 sometimes.

Oh my... Without getting into details, I spend 40 hours a week designing products that require constant Navstar reception, and you are horribly incorrect and this whole thread is pointless because GPS count is soley dependent on your geographical location. That is what answers your silly question to begin with. Your phantom isn't special, and isn't doing something other phantoms won't, it's just that your location is good for reception,.

would also like you to show me a single spot in this world that is receiving 16 sat's at a single time. Here are some handy tools for you to spend your day with. haha

I use a commercial equivalent of this software: http://freegeographytools.com/2010/onli ... redictions
That free software is accurate, but not nearly reliable enough for my industry.


Here is a quick sat check online tool,
http://www.calsky.com/cs.cgi


I eagerly await your reply including a location that receives even 14 sats at one time using a 7.28 degree inclination industry standard.


Monday fun fact: my max reception at my office coordinates today is 10.. All day, I will have a max of 10 satellites at any given time and that will only occur for 00:17:10.2847 @ 18:30.019 EST. For 17 minutes, 10.2847 seconds I will have the ability to capture reliable data from 10 orbitals. I will have the ability to receive a max of 8 satellites for 13:48:84.2847 today. Over half of the day my location will only have reliable time stamps from 8 orbitals.

Eurostylin, do you design products that are ground based? I don't doubt your expertise (though I do take exception to your tone). In any case, maybe you aren't taking into account how much more of the sky is visible in most areas from 40 or 50 meters above ground. At 40 or 50 meters you will clear most trees, building and many hills. At 100 meters, the sky really opens up. (Of course in mountainous areas all bets are off).

 

[N017RW]

You do realize that there are only a few places on earth that happen to see 13 SATS at any given time, correct?

Not correct. Everyone gets their fair share of sats. But the number varies with time.
There are more sats in the sky lately and you can get up to 16 sometimes.

Oh my... Without getting into details, I spend 40 hours a week designing products that require constant Navstar reception, and you are horribly incorrect and this whole thread is pointless because GPS count is soley dependent on your geographical location. That is what answers your silly question to begin with. Your phantom isn't special, and isn't doing something other phantoms won't, it's just that your location is good for reception,.

would also like you to show me a single spot in this world that is receiving 16 sat's at a single time. Here are some handy tools for you to spend your day with. haha

I use a commercial equivalent of this software: http://freegeographytools.com/2010/onli ... redictions
That free software is accurate, but not nearly reliable enough for my industry.


Here is a quick sat check online tool,
http://www.calsky.com/cs.cgi


I eagerly await your reply including a location that receives even 14 sats at one time using a 7.28 degree inclination industry standard.


Monday fun fact: my max reception at my office coordinates today is 10.. All day, I will have a max of 10 satellites at any given time and that will only occur for 00:17:10.2847 @ 18:30.019 EST. For 17 minutes, 10.2847 seconds I will have the ability to capture reliable data from 10 orbitals. I will have the ability to receive a max of 8 satellites for 13:48:84.2847 today. Over half of the day my location will only have reliable time stamps from 8 orbitals.

The ublox NEO-6Q is a 16 channel receiver with a minimum, and default, Elevation Mask of 5 degrees. It is unknown if DJI (or their vendor) has adjusted this parameter.

 

[gingerbloke]

FWIW - My smartphone (android) running 'GPS status' can often see 17 sats from my office, and can sometimes fix on 15.

My office is a barn conversion, so single brick wall and thin roof. On the Wales/England border (some big hills but few mountains) approx 50m ASL

 

[Meta4]

If your phone is picking up that many sats you'll probably find it's getting Russian GLONASS satellites as well as the conventional US GPS sats.
If you run the GPS Status app you'll see the Russian sats show as squares and the US sats as circles.
The Phantom only receives US GPS sats.

 

[gingerbloke]

Interesting, so the next obvious question is why can my cheap chinese smartphone utilise russian sats but the phantom (which is heavily reliant on accurate GPS) cannot? Cost? Weight? CBA?

Or is the smartphone just showing the russian sats, not actually fixing on them?

 

[Meta4]

The GPS receiver in your phone is probably using the GLONASS sats.
If it can't use them, it's unlikely it can receive their frequencies.
You need a GPS receiver that's made to work on both systems - older ones won't.
The latest Garmin handhelds do - older ones don't.
The Inspire does - Phantoms don't

 

[eurostylin]

Eurostylin, do you design products that are ground based? I don't doubt your expertise (though I do take exception to your tone). In any case, maybe you aren't taking into account how much more of the sky is visible in most areas from 40 or 50 meters above ground. At 40 or 50 meters you will clear most trees, building and many hills. At 100 meters, the sky really opens up. (Of course in mountainous areas all bets are off).

Sorry about my snotty reply, he had just told me I was wrong that "a fair share of the world receives 14+ satellites, which is not even close to the truth, so I was correcting him.

We are plotting out every inch of air space requiring a transponder to have the ability to harness the GPS signal received from aircraft and broadcast it to a stationary antenna on the ground. While I can't talk about everything going on, let's just say that not all of North America is covered by ground sourced radar, and our system actively monitors every aircraft in the air with accuracy > 0° 00′ 0.00036″ using GPS transponders that cannot be shut off. This complete project will be finished by 2020, and every device that falls under FAA guidelines will have to be on board..

Back to the subject of "I always have 14 satellites" So much more than "GPS Reception" are to be taken into consideration for accuracy. If you can see "14 orbitals", it can actually be a bad thing. Depending on the angle of reception, the differential in Ionosphere thickness alone can throw off a high end receiver by over 6 meters, imagine what it can do to these phantoms. This is why we do NOT want to use any horizon orbitals in our calculations. In aviation, we don't even rely on oribitals, because they are not accurate in heavy doses. We use ground stations that correct satellite error and rebroadcast proper signals..

Where we have a saturation of orbitals (especially near the OP's location 120.0000°), we have another huge issue of geometric dilution of precision... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilution_o ... _%28GPS%29

I know it sounds odd, but these people doing modifications to receive extra GPS signals using tin foil are actually hurting themselves by making the bird compute low quality data, which in turn lowers the accuracy level. I'm not certain on how the DJI processor works, but quality units will disregard outlier orbitals from processing. If you usually have 7-9 orbitals during your flights, you will probably have better accuracy than if you used tinfoil and "gained" 3 or 4 signals...

Anyway, here is some interesting reading if you are bored:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RINEX
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_GPS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Area_ ... ion_System

 

[eurostylin]

FWIW - My smartphone (android) running 'GPS status' can often see 17 sats from my office, and can sometimes fix on 15.

My office is a barn conversion, so single brick wall and thin roof. On the Wales/England border (some big hills but few mountains) approx 50m ASL

Sounds like your app is acquiring GLONASS signals, aka, Russian. Accurate, but Russian controlled, and they can always pull something like the US used to do to purposely make them non-accurate at any given time by using time modifiers for military personal only..

Interesting read on that subject: http://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/modernization/sa/

 

[Meta4]

Sorry about my snotty reply, he had just told me I was wrong that "a fair share of the world receives 14+ satellites, which is not even close to the truth, so I was correcting him.

Back to the subject of "I always have 14 satellites"

There's a lot of difference between "I always have 14 satellites" and what I said ..

Everyone gets their fair share of sats. But the number varies with time.
There are more sats in the sky lately and you can get up to 16 sometimes.

One would hope your interpretation of scientific data is better than your comprehension.

I know it sounds odd, but these people doing modifications to receive extra GPS signals using tin foil are actually hurting themselves by making the bird compute low quality data, which in turn lowers the accuracy level. I'm not certain on how the DJI processor works, but quality units will disregard outlier orbitals from processing. If you usually have 7-9 orbitals during your flights, you will probably have better accuracy than if you used tinfoil and "gained" 3 or 4 signals...

To give a little background for those that bought their Phantom recently ...
Until very recently there was a serious fault in DJI Phantoms with interference that caused Phantoms to drop satellites and made it hard to receive the 6 sats that DJI require for GPS flight. The people using foil are doing that because they cannot get enough sats to fly any other way. The modification is not done to get better accuracy. Having flown for 8 months with the modification, I haven't seen any evidence that it causes any problem or lowers accuracy.

 

[Sparhawk12345]

Yes i love it - no neighbours. So much character. Only for of heating is coal or wood so need to sweep chimneys every 2 months. Water comes out of a stream. Pretty self sufficient but broadband driving me nuts - cant even watch or upload a Youtube Video. invested in satellite broadband - was awesome for months but they oversold it - now it only works 2am to 6am!!!

Faster, less congested satellite broadband is supposed to be coming very soon for the UK. We install SBB systems in Wales and have many people with the same problem as you have. The planned 'roll out' for the SBB included this upgrade, and the previous ones, but I think they didn't correctly predict the demand for these systems, or understand just how many people live in areas with poor broadband. Then the government got involved, because of the promise to get everyone up to a certain speed by a certain date, and started offering grants to put in SBB systems to anyone who's mainline broadband speed was less than 2mbps and demand skyrocketed! Hang in there, it should get better soon!

Sorry, I know it was off the original topic, I just wanted to offer some reassurance to our friend in the Brecon Beacons that internet life might improve soon!