Flying in fog: No need to panic

[PeakXV]

Yes, salt spray is certainly an issue with those of us who operate Phantoms in Atlantic Canada. I do a fair bit of over water flying and I have a few simple things I always do.


3. Whenever there is any wave activity sending salt spray into the air, I always like to get up to 250 or 300 feet right away to avoid getting spray on my aircraft.


Safe flying!

Yes, it goes without saying to steer clear of the visual spray near the waves and ocean surface, but SSA particulate has recordable readings as high as 476 meters above sea level, and up to 3km in land. So, the jury is still out as to what repercussions that the heavier no-see-um particulate might have to a drone over the course of several flights. Probably not a lot to worry about, but the uncertainty and invisibility of it all makes it worthy to keep on one's personal radar.
https://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/14/1277/2014/acp-14-1277-2014.pdf

 

[Cellblock776]

I'm surprised that anyone can see a Phantom at 2000 feet out. I can rarely see mine past 1600 feet out. At 1800 feet it is less than a speck in the sky. I figure my Line of Sight range is 1600 feet max in a typical flight. Anything further than that is going to require a VO posted up a few hundred feet downrange with a radio.

 

[Deleted member 29014]

Hi Everybody....

I've been flying DJI Phantoms for about 5 years......and, when it comes to everything(including flying drones), you either have the experience or you don't. That said, there are always new things to learn.
A recent flight has now added to my collection of experience and I'd like to share it with you.

This past Monday afternoon, I flew my P4P from a point of land straight out over water to an island out in the middle of a large river.
The flight over water was close to 2,000 feet before I reached the island.
Once there, I climbed to 375 feet and began shooting video of the island......before then switching to taking still shots.

It was about 6 Celcius , calm wind but there were a few fog banks near the island.

I was busy concentrating on getting the photographs I wanted that I didn't notice the fog had repositioned itself and was now directly between where I was and the clear area around the island.
I finished my photography and turned my P4P for the return flight and pretty much within a minute I was smack in the middle of a fog bank........the fog was dry, so there was no harm going to be done to my drone.

But, I couldn't see anything.....the display on my iPhone 8 was foggy white.

If anybody out there ever runs into this situation, I will pass along what I did.

First, I tried climbing 100 feet to see if that made any difference........it didn't.
Then, I descended 150 feet to check out visibility there. Same.

I could have simply hit ' Return to Home', but I wanted to see if I could manually fly back without using the RTH function. I wanted to 'think myself out of the problem'.

I knew my compass heading.....I also knew my altitude and distance from my HomePoint.......I also knew how much battery life I had ( 55% ), so no panic there.

I also knew there were no obstacles in my way between the island and my position on land.

I climbed to 300 feet(which is my RTH preset altitude just in case I used it) and I manually flew back through the fog...........keeping an eye on my compass and watching the Distance Travelled number decrease.
With about 400 feet to go, I did switch to the RTH function because I wanted my Phantom to be overhead my position as it came down through the fog.

Everything went according to plan and my Phantom came down through the fog and landed exactly where it was supposed to.

I share this experience with you because no matter how long you've been flying, there will be those occasions where you are faced with something new.....and challenging.
This , then, contributes to your file of experience.

THE most important thing is to NEVER panic. Size up the situation you are in.....and think about all the bits of information you DO know......and hopefully it will be enough to guide you safely home.

Safe flying!

"THE most important thing is to NEVER panic " Well, yes. But the most important thing to do, if one is a professional aviator, is to plan ahead and check the weather, and stay VLOS...

 

[Deleted member 29014]

It will never cease to amaze me the amount of sarcasm and rudeness users give to a total stranger.

Sarcasm? Perhaps in your mind. I don't see it.

 

[BigAl07]

I'm surprised that anyone can see a Phantom at 2000 feet out. I can rarely see mine past 1600 feet out. At 1800 feet it is less than a speck in the sky. I figure my Line of Sight range is 1600 feet max in a typical flight. Anything further than that is going to require a VO posted up a few hundred feet downrange with a radio.

The VO does not extend your VLOS or give you the RPIC from the responsibility of VLOS with the aircraft. At least not yet in today's arena.

 

[Sharpshooter7]

Hi Everybody....

I've been flying DJI Phantoms for about 5 years......and, when it comes to everything(including flying drones), you either have the experience or you don't. That said, there are always new things to learn.
A recent flight has now added to my collection of experience and I'd like to share it with you.

This past Monday afternoon, I flew my P4P from a point of land straight out over water to an island out in the middle of a large river.
The flight over water was close to 2,000 feet before I reached the island.
Once there, I climbed to 375 feet and began shooting video of the island......before then switching to taking still shots.

It was about 6 Celcius , calm wind but there were a few fog banks near the island.

I was busy concentrating on getting the photographs I wanted that I didn't notice the fog had repositioned itself and was now directly between where I was and the clear area around the island.
I finished my photography and turned my P4P for the return flight and pretty much within a minute I was smack in the middle of a fog bank........the fog was dry, so there was no harm going to be done to my drone.

But, I couldn't see anything.....the display on my iPhone 8 was foggy white.

If anybody out there ever runs into this situation, I will pass along what I did.

First, I tried climbing 100 feet to see if that made any difference........it didn't.
Then, I descended 150 feet to check out visibility there. Same.

I could have simply hit ' Return to Home', but I wanted to see if I could manually fly back without using the RTH function. I wanted to 'think myself out of the problem'.

I knew my compass heading.....I also knew my altitude and distance from my HomePoint.......I also knew how much battery life I had ( 55% ), so no panic there.

I also knew there were no obstacles in my way between the island and my position on land.

I climbed to 300 feet(which is my RTH preset altitude just in case I used it) and I manually flew back through the fog...........keeping an eye on my compass and watching the Distance Travelled number decrease.
With about 400 feet to go, I did switch to the RTH function because I wanted my Phantom to be overhead my position as it came down through the fog.

Everything went according to plan and my Phantom came down through the fog and landed exactly where it was supposed to.

I share this experience with you because no matter how long you've been flying, there will be those occasions where you are faced with something new.....and challenging.
This , then, contributes to your file of experience.

THE most important thing is to NEVER panic. Size up the situation you are in.....and think about all the bits of information you DO know......and hopefully it will be enough to guide you safely home.

Safe flying!

An excellent post and a great principle. I find this drone thing strange in that I've been a pilot for over 45 years, never been prone to panic, but I can feel myself on the edge of it when I'm flying the P4P. Maybe it stems from the unreliability I experienced with the very first Phantom iteration, at any rate I find myself constantly having to control the urge to panic and think through the process.

 

[keyguitar99]

Hi Everybody....

I've been flying DJI Phantoms for about 5 years......and, when it comes to everything(including flying drones), you either have the experience or you don't. That said, there are always new things to learn.
A recent flight has now added to my collection of experience and I'd like to share it with you.

This past Monday afternoon, I flew my P4P from a point of land straight out over water to an island out in the middle of a large river.
The flight over water was close to 2,000 feet before I reached the island.
Once there, I climbed to 375 feet and began shooting video of the island......before then switching to taking still shots.

It was about 6 Celcius , calm wind but there were a few fog banks near the island.

I was busy concentrating on getting the photographs I wanted that I didn't notice the fog had repositioned itself and was now directly between where I was and the clear area around the island.
I finished my photography and turned my P4P for the return flight and pretty much within a minute I was smack in the middle of a fog bank........the fog was dry, so there was no harm going to be done to my drone.

But, I couldn't see anything.....the display on my iPhone 8 was foggy white.

If anybody out there ever runs into this situation, I will pass along what I did.

First, I tried climbing 100 feet to see if that made any difference........it didn't.
Then, I descended 150 feet to check out visibility there. Same.

I could have simply hit ' Return to Home', but I wanted to see if I could manually fly back without using the RTH function. I wanted to 'think myself out of the problem'.

I knew my compass heading.....I also knew my altitude and distance from my HomePoint.......I also knew how much battery life I had ( 55% ), so no panic there.

I also knew there were no obstacles in my way between the island and my position on land.

I climbed to 300 feet(which is my RTH preset altitude just in case I used it) and I manually flew back through the fog...........keeping an eye on my compass and watching the Distance Travelled number decrease.
With about 400 feet to go, I did switch to the RTH function because I wanted my Phantom to be overhead my position as it came down through the fog.

Everything went according to plan and my Phantom came down through the fog and landed exactly where it was supposed to.

I share this experience with you because no matter how long you've been flying, there will be those occasions where you are faced with something new.....and challenging.
This , then, contributes to your file of experience.

THE most important thing is to NEVER panic. Size up the situation you are in.....and think about all the bits of information you DO know......and hopefully it will be enough to guide you safely home.

Safe flying!

Nice thought process. I've had similar experiences with my P4P, and you are right about keeping calm and not panicking.

 

[Dennis Frantz]

Fog is never "dry" as it's water vapor or ice crystals. So stating "the fog was dry, so there was no harm going to be done to my drone " is extremely wrong. Here's a definition of fog:

Fog is a visible aerosol consisting of minute water droplets or ice crystals suspended in the air at or near the Earth's surface.[1] Although it has no Latin name, fog can be considered a type of low-lying cloud, usually resembling stratus, and is heavily influenced by nearby bodies of water, topography, and wind conditions.

Really? After reading such a great story, all you could think of to contribute is “Fog is never dry”. It never ceases to amaze me how someone always finds something negative to say about even the most innocent story. No law was broken here. No one was hurt. It’s a shame that no matter what the posting is, someone will immediately nit-pick about the least significant point of the story. But you are correct: fog is never dry. But it think you missed the point.

 

[Hendricks]

Really? After reading such a great story, all you could think of to contribute is “Fog is never dry”. It never ceases to amaze me how someone always finds something negative to say about even the most innocent story. No law was broken here. No one was hurt. It’s a shame that no matter what the posting is, someone will immediately nit-pick about the least significant point of the story. But you are correct: fog is never dry. But it think you missed the point.

Abolutely.
Thanks for your post.

 

[Hendricks]

An excellent post and a great principle. I find this drone thing strange in that I've been a pilot for over 45 years, never been prone to panic, but I can feel myself on the edge of it when I'm flying the P4P. Maybe it stems from the unreliability I experienced with the very first Phantom iteration, at any rate I find myself constantly having to control the urge to panic and think through the process.

Thanks for your post.
You raise an interesting point.
Those of us who have 'grown up' with the previous Phantoms perhaps are prone to nervousness because of our experiences with the P2 and early P3 aircraft.
I was actually thinking about this the other day: how there were pretty regular stories from guys flying the P2s and even the P3s who experienced 'flyaways'.
Losing their aircraft.
Pretty much unheard of now.
Also, the P2s where you had to charge the flight battery,controller,, WiFi range extender, as well as your phone. Lots to remember.

By comparison, the P4 series of drones are light years ahead(along with their cameras) and pilots now have a much better flying experience than the 'early days'.

That said, our experiences with the early Phantoms will sometimes creep into our thoughts as we fly the much better P4 aircraft.

 

[Deleted member 29014]

Really? After reading such a great story, all you could think of to contribute is “Fog is never dry”. It never ceases to amaze me how someone always finds something negative to say about even the most innocent story. No law was broken here. No one was hurt. It’s a shame that no matter what the posting is, someone will immediately nit-pick about the least significant point of the story. But you are correct: fog is never dry. But it think you missed the point.

"No law was broken here " Maybe. OP never said if he was in the US or not.

 

[Harleydude]

Hi Everybody....

I've been flying DJI Phantoms for about 5 years......and, when it comes to everything(including flying drones), you either have the experience or you don't. That said, there are always new things to learn.
A recent flight has now added to my collection of experience and I'd like to share it with you.

This past Monday afternoon, I flew my P4P from a point of land straight out over water to an island out in the middle of a large river.
The flight over water was close to 2,000 feet before I reached the island.
Once there, I climbed to 375 feet and began shooting video of the island......before then switching to taking still shots.

It was about 6 Celcius , calm wind but there were a few fog banks near the island.

I was busy concentrating on getting the photographs I wanted that I didn't notice the fog had repositioned itself and was now directly between where I was and the clear area around the island.
I finished my photography and turned my P4P for the return flight and pretty much within a minute I was smack in the middle of a fog bank........the fog was dry, so there was no harm going to be done to my drone.

But, I couldn't see anything.....the display on my iPhone 8 was foggy white.

If anybody out there ever runs into this situation, I will pass along what I did.

First, I tried climbing 100 feet to see if that made any difference........it didn't.
Then, I descended 150 feet to check out visibility there. Same.

I could have simply hit ' Return to Home', but I wanted to see if I could manually fly back without using the RTH function. I wanted to 'think myself out of the problem'.

I knew my compass heading.....I also knew my altitude and distance from my HomePoint.......I also knew how much battery life I had ( 55% ), so no panic there.

I also knew there were no obstacles in my way between the island and my position on land.

I climbed to 300 feet(which is my RTH preset altitude just in case I used it) and I manually flew back through the fog...........keeping an eye on my compass and watching the Distance Travelled number decrease.
With about 400 feet to go, I did switch to the RTH function because I wanted my Phantom to be overhead my position as it came down through the fog.

Everything went according to plan and my Phantom came down through the fog and landed exactly where it was supposed to.

I share this experience with you because no matter how long you've been flying, there will be those occasions where you are faced with something new.....and challenging.
This , then, contributes to your file of experience.

THE most important thing is to NEVER panic. Size up the situation you are in.....and think about all the bits of information you DO know......and hopefully it will be enough to guide you safely home.

Safe flying!

OR...you can use the map view and fly home using that method. I probably would've done that. Even without the map, the telemetry will guide you home. And because you're flying over water, 200' AGL should get you home with no interference from bridges or other obstacles.

D

 

[skymonkey]

The VO does not extend your VLOS or give you the RPIC from the responsibility of VLOS with the aircraft. At least not yet in today's arena.

Please read FAR Part 107.31 paying close attention to part (b)

§107.31 Visual line of sight aircraft operation.
(a) With vision that is unaided by any device other than corrective lenses, the remote pilot in command, the visual observer (if one is used), and the person manipulating the flight control of the small unmanned aircraft system must be able to see the unmanned aircraft throughout the entire flight in order to: (1) Know the unmanned aircraft’s location; (2) Determine the unmanned aircraft’s attitude, altitude, and direction of flight; (3) Observe the airspace for other air traffic or hazards; and (4) Determine that the unmanned aircraft does not endanger the life or property of another. (b) Throughout the entire flight of the small unmanned aircraft, the ability described in subsection (a) of this section must be exercised by either: (1) The remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system; or (2) A visual observer.

 

[skymonkey]

I think the real lesson to be learned here is like a few here have mentioned, that is to to get a good weather briefing of current and forecast weather conditions. The majority of general aviation fatalities have been pilots that fly VFR into IMC. I know that the PIC here will not suffer any bodily harm if his sUAS came crashing down, but were he in a different setting it could cause bodily and/or property damage to others. Make it a habit that the first thing you always do before you fly is to check the weather. That is where all flying is done!

 

[grego122]

Video would have been nice to see you entering the FOG from the island!
Sounds like a twilight episode..

 

[BigAl07]

Please read FAR Part 107.31 paying close attention to part (b)

§107.31 Visual line of sight aircraft operation.
(a) With vision that is unaided by any device other than corrective lenses, the remote pilot in command, the visual observer (if one is used), and the person manipulating the flight control of the small unmanned aircraft system must be able to see the unmanned aircraft throughout the entire flight in order to: (1) Know the unmanned aircraft’s location; (2) Determine the unmanned aircraft’s attitude, altitude, and direction of flight; (3) Observe the airspace for other air traffic or hazards; and (4) Determine that the unmanned aircraft does not endanger the life or property of another. (b) Throughout the entire flight of the small unmanned aircraft, the ability described in subsection (a) of this section must be exercised by either: (1) The remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system; or (2) A visual observer.

Reach out to your FSDO and ask them for clarification. I can save you some time if you want the Cliff's Notes keep reading here:

The "VO" being able to see the aircraft only allows the RPIC to take his/her eyes off the aircraft to check telemetry etc momentarily. It does not transfer the roll of maintaining VLOS to the aircraft in such a way as to allow for extending the flight or flying around/behind obstacles.

This is a direct quote (nothing has been changed what so ever) from our FAA sUAS liaison on Oklahoma:

"For the VLOS question, the RPIC must maintain VLOS with the UA at all times. The VO provision is for the temporary moments when the RPIC may need to look down at the data they may be collecting on additional systems. During those times, the VO would be able to alert the RPIC of any danger."

It makes absolutely no sense from a NAS Safety standpoint to allow a VO to assume the full role of Visualiziation of the flight away from the RPIC for anything other than a momentary glance at controls/telemetry etc. If the VO assumes full visual roles at a distance and there is a loss of COMMS how in the world will the RPIC be able to take action?

I agree that this will probably have to be ironed out in a court case but the FAA has made it clear the VO can only assume visualization for a moment and not take this roll indefinitely.

@skymonkey by your abbreviations etc you sound like you have a background in aviation etc so I'm surprised you'd take such a danerous stance as suggesting the VO can assume a full role of VLOS away from the RPIC.

 

[skymonkey]

Reach out to your FSDO and ask them for clarification. I can save you some time if you want the Cliff's Notes keep reading here:

The "VO" being able to see the aircraft only allows the RPIC to take his/her eyes off the aircraft to check telemetry etc momentarily. It does not transfer the roll of maintaining VLOS to the aircraft in such a way as to allow for extending the flight or flying around/behind obstacles.

This is a direct quote (nothing has been changed what so ever) from our FAA sUAS liaison on Oklahoma:



It makes absolutely no sense from a NAS Safety standpoint to allow a VO to assume the full role of Visualiziation of the flight away from the RPIC for anything other than a momentary glance at controls/telemetry etc. If the VO assumes full visual roles at a distance and there is a loss of COMMS how in the world will the RPIC be able to take action?

I agree that this will probably have to be ironed out in a court case but the FAA has made it clear the VO can only assume visualization for a moment and not take this roll indefinitely.

@skymonkey by your abbreviations etc you sound like you have a background in aviation etc so I'm surprised you'd take such a danerous stance as suggesting the VO can assume a full role of VLOS away from the RPIC.

BigA107 you are absolutely right. I was interpreting it as it is written.
I just researched it and here it is better explained in (5.7) of this AC 107-2

AC_107-2.pdf

Thanks for the heads up! And yes I have PVT- SEL-MEL-IR but I have not flown in over 15 yrs.

 

[skymonkey]

BigA107 you are absolutely right. I was interpreting it as it is written.
I just researched it and here it is better explained in (5.7) of this AC 107-2

AC_107-2.pdf

Thanks for the heads up! And yes I have PVT- SEL-MEL-IR but I have not flown in over 15 yrs.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_107-2.pdf

 

[BigAl07]

BigA107 you are absolutely right. I was interpreting it as it is written.
I just researched it and here it is better explained in (5.7) of this AC 107-2

AC_107-2.pdf

Thanks for the heads up! And yes I have PVT- SEL-MEL-IR but I have not flown in over 15 yrs.

My pleasure. Sometimes (often times) it's exhausting to try and interpret what "they" actually mean.

 

[BigAl07]

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_107-2.pdf

Here's the section that pertains to this topic specifically:
Chapter 5. Part 107 Subpart B, Operating Limitations for Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems (sUAS)

5.7
VLOS Aircraft Operation. The remote PIC and person manipulating the controls must be able to see the small UA at all times during flight. Therefore, the small UA must be operated closely enough to the CS to ensure visibility requirements are met during small UA operations. This requirement also applies to the VO, if used during the aircraft operation. However, the person maintaining VLOS may have brief moments in which he or she is not looking directly at or cannot see the small UA, but still retains the capability to see the UA or quickly maneuver it back to VLOS. These moments can be for the safety of the operation (e.g., looking at the controller to see battery life remaining) or for operational necessity.