FAA Remote I.D.

FAA remote I.D. information, Changes are a coming
mail
Remote ID Banner
U.S. Department of Transportation Issues
Proposed Rule on Remote ID for Drones

WASHINGTON – The U.S. Department of Transportation’s Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) today announced a proposed rule that would continue the safe integration of Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS), commonly called drones, into the nation’s airspace by requiring them to be identifiable remotely.
Well if we're going to be required to have a transponder, then we should be able to fly above 400' too.
 
You are mistaken. I am not describing the 400 foot bubble that is involved in "limited" Remote ID drones.

A "standard" Remote ID drone must (1) broadcast certain real-time data from the drone on Wifi frequencies (not to mobile phone towers) and (2) update an internet database in real-time. Note that (1) must come from the drone itself, but (2) need not. I'll discuss both of these requirements in the two paragraphs below.

While the broadcast on Wifi frequencies must come from the drone itself, most drones today have Wifi radios which are used to communicate with the controller. A simple firmware update will allow those radios to also transmit a burst every one-second or so with the unencrypted datastream required by the rule for standard drones. The purpose of this broadcast would be to allow anyone in the area with a smartphone or computer and the right app to get a map view of all the drones in the area simply by receiving the broadcast. The FAA rule specifically requires that these broadcasts occur on Part 15 frequencies and thus the broadcast CANNOT be sent out to mobile phone towers. In FCC parlance, a "broadcast" is a one to many, i.e., an FM radio station "broadcasts." A mobile telephone does not.

Note also that you will not necessarily need to broadcast your registration number with this broadcast. Rather, for your own privacy, you can instead opt to broadcast a unique session ID for each flight. The session ID would be generated by your Remote ID service provider. So, a police officer accessing the FAA system could determine your identity, but a neighbor watching the flight could not.

In contrast to the real-time Wifi broadcast that must come from the drone itself, the internet update need NOT come from the drone itself, but can be sent from the Remote Pilot using a mobile phone connected to the controller. Since most drone users today use their mobile phone to operate the camera and view real-time information about their drones operations (barometric altitude, speed, direction, etc.), a simple app update would allow that same data to be transmitted over the internet.

And again, if you have no internet, you can fly a standard drone as long as it is broadcasting the required data over Wifi. So, if you're on your farm and there's no internet, you're free to fly as long as your device is broadcasting the required data on Wifi, which it will have no trouble doing if you are controlling it using a 2.4Ghz or 5.8Ghz controller. On the other hand, if you have internet and your remote ID service provider is down, then you're grounded.

A limited Remote ID drone is the one that must operate within a 400 foot bubble. It will not need to broadcast anything from the drone. The Remote Pilot need merely update his location information via the internet in real-time. The limited Remote ID drone doesn't have to broadcast real-time data using Wifi. My suspicion is that this rule is to allow drones that won't be remotely controlled by radio (and thus not have a Wifi radio that can be used to broadcast the data), but instead will be remotedly controlled using gestures. So, if someone releases a selfie-drone in the future that has no Wifi radios whatsoever, the user can install software on his phone that will send the required internet updates, and then launch the drone and control it using hand movements. Since the drone won't be allowed to go more than 400 feet from the controller, updating the internet with the controller's location will be "good enough."

I'm not sure why the rule includes this, since such drones are likely to be under .55 pounds and not subject to the rule. It may be that the FAA contemplates changing the .55 pound rule in the future and wants to have a regulatory framework in place when that happens.

I don't think anyone is reading this as the drone has to connect to "the internet" for Internet transmission. You appear to be describing the "limited" option, in the 400 foot bubble. Yes, it looks pretty clear that the existing drone and a phone on it's controller could do that. The problem is the "standard" option, which would not require the drone to be on "the internet" but it would have to broadcast it's location... to something.... which is probably the cell towers, thus the Internet through a data connection. So, if you are interested in the "standard" option, it is a distinction without a difference.

And, I'm really only interested in what I'm allowed to do with the "standard" option, as the limited option is near useless to me. Sure, you could take real estate pics of a house with the bubble, as long as you have Internet, but I like to send drone out a little farther than 400 feet. I own land that is 2/3 of a mile across, in the middle of nowhere, so there's no reason I shouldn't be able to do that to check out stuff in the far corners of the land. Oh, and it also wouldn't have an Internet connection out there, so it wouldn't even take off.
 
Last edited:

AND, dont forget to add a way to have internet service when you fly....
 
AND, dont forget to add a way to have internet service when you fly....

As I've said above, you will not need to have internet service wherever you fly. As long as your drone has a Wifi radio and has firmware that causes it to broadcast the required data burst every one second on Wifi frequencies while it's flying, you'll be good to go even if you're in an area with no internet access.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigAl07
As I've said above, you will not need to have internet service wherever you fly. As long as your drone has a Wifi radio and has firmware that causes it to broadcast the required data burst every one second on Wifi frequencies while it's flying, you'll be good to go even if you're in an area with no internet access.
So when is internet required? I'm still confused.

The way it's written makes it seem like you need to have both the WiFi and internet transmissions. Also, the battery on my P3S is pretty bad to begin with; what about the effect on battery life from the WiFi transmission every second?

I don't have any problem with having some system in place provided that:
A) there is not a hardware change needed on existing drones (especially if it's something that can cost 5-10x the original cost of the drone in the case of a $2000 ADS-B transponder).
B) There's not some monthly fee required to use a service. I don't fly my drone commercially, so I don't make any money from it. It would be cost prohibitive for me (in principal, not actually) to have to pay some provider now to fly my drone. I don't fly by it that often now as it is, so... Cost per flight would be very high.
C). Battery life on the drone is not impacted.
 
Well,

Your P3S is constantly sending wifi transmissions (Video + GPS + Battery + Altitude + Speed) to your controller already. It wouldn't surprise me if we ultimately learn that all DJI drones are already transmitting most of the required data to support their own DJI Aeroscope drone tracking system. As a result, it probably will have no impact on battery life.

You are never required to have internet access. However, your Unmanned Aircraft System (the "System" includes your Unmnned Aircraft AND the controller) must have the technical ability to access the internet in places where it is available. As I noted above (and as indicated in the FAA's publication), the internet access can be at any point in the UA system. Internet access does not have to be on the UA itself. Only the Wifi broadcasts have to be on the UA itself. The FAA's notice has indicated that you can comply with that requirement via a mobile phone that is tethered to (or even used as) the controller.

As a result, no extra data plan or hardware should be required for most existing drones. A firmware update to broadcast the Wifi data in addition to the telemetry going to your controller will meet the broadcast requirement. And an app update allowing your phone to transmit the data to the internet database (when internet access is available) will meet the internet requirement.

If your UA System has the ability to access the internet, but there is no internet service, your UA can fly as long as it is also broadcasting the required data via Wifi directly from the aircraft itself.

If you guys are going to submit public comments, it is important that you actually understand what the rules will and will not require. Public comments that are based upon incorrect assumptions are likely to be ignored.

I see three major areas of concern:

1. Privacy: With this new system, the threat of harassment from people who don't want drones flying over their homes is a potential.

2. Municipal overreach: Cities that ban drone use in parks or even in the entire city could use the database to attempt to prosecute anyone who violates the ordinance, even though the ordinance is probably preempted by federal law. The fact of federal preemption may not stop the City from scouring the database once a year and imposing civil or even criminal fines against recreational park flyers. If you want, you can try to raise federal preemption in your local courthouse, but the Judge is unlikely to be as concerned about upholding federal preemption as he or she is with enforcing local ordinances. The best approach to avoid this would be to have the FAA be more specific about the scope of preemption, or to even create a system to have the FAA declare preemption, similar to how the FCC will declare as prempted various HOA rules/City ordinances relating to TV antennas and satellite dishes.

3. The 12-month limitation on applications for Remote ID free zones for flying clubs should be made unlimited. Five years from now, a new club may form and it may want to establish a place to fly. They shouldn't be prohibited from doing so simply because they came along too late.

So when is internet required? I'm still confused.

The way it's written makes it seem like you need to have both the WiFi and internet transmissions. Also, the battery on my P3S is pretty bad to begin with; what about the effect on battery life from the WiFi transmission every second?

I don't have any problem with having some system in place provided that:
A) there is not a hardware change needed on existing drones (especially if it's something that can cost 5-10x the original cost of the drone in the case of a $2000 ADS-B transponder).
B) There's not some monthly fee required to use a service. I don't fly my drone commercially, so I don't make any money from it. It would be cost prohibitive for me (in principal, not actually) to have to pay some provider now to fly my drone. I don't fly by it that often now as it is, so... Cost per flight would be very high.
C). Battery life on the drone is not impacted.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: MTO and Adamborz
True mine has that ability as well. The dji uuid is meant for aeroscope and has about a 5km range. What isn’t yet defined is if that uuid is compatible and has the range to comply with the secondary connection to the USS (UAS Service Supplier) subscription service
I always leave my UUID off as I get worried to be hacked.
 
Well,

Your P3S is constantly sending wifi transmissions (Video + GPS + Battery + Altitude + Speed) to your controller already. It wouldn't surprise me if we ultimately learn that all DJI drones are already transmitting most of the required data to support their own DJI Aeroscope drone tracking system. As a result, it probably will have no impact on battery life.

You are never required to have internet access. However, your Unmanned Aircraft System (the "System" includes your Unmnned Aircraft AND the controller) must have the technical ability to access the internet in places where it is available. As I noted above (and as indicated in the FAA's publication), the internet access can be at any point in the UA system. Internet access does not have to be on the UA itself. Only the Wifi broadcasts have to be on the UA itself. The FAA's notice has indicated that you can comply with that requirement via a mobile phone that is tethered to (or even used as) the controller.

As a result, no extra data plan or hardware should be required for most existing drones. A firmware update to broadcast the Wifi data in addition to the telemetry going to your controller will meet the broadcast requirement. And an app update allowing your phone to transmit the data to the internet database (when internet access is available) will meet the internet requirement.

If your UA System has the ability to access the internet, but there is no internet service, your UA can fly as long as it is also broadcasting the required data via Wifi directly from the aircraft itself.

If you guys are going to submit public comments, it is important that you actually understand what the rules will and will not require. Public comments that are based upon incorrect assumptions are likely to be ignored.

I see three major areas of concern:

1. Privacy: With this new system, the threat of harassment from people who don't want drones flying over their homes is a potential.

2. Municipal overreach: Cities that ban drone use in parks or even in the entire city could use the database to attempt to prosecute anyone who violates the ordinance, even though the ordinance is probably preempted by federal law. The fact of federal preemption may not stop the City from scouring the database once a year and imposing civil or even criminal fines against recreational park flyers. If you want, you can try to raise federal preemption in your local courthouse, but the Judge is unlikely to be as concerned about upholding federal preemption as he or she is with enforcing local ordinances. The best approach to avoid this would be to have the FAA be more specific about the scope of preemption, or to even create a system to have the FAA declare preemption, similar to how the FCC will declare as prempted various HOA rules/City ordinances relating to TV antennas and satellite dishes.

3. The 12-month limitation on applications for Remote ID free zones for flying clubs should be made unlimited. Five years from now, a new club may form and it may want to establish a place to fly. They shouldn't be prohibited from doing so simply because they came along too late.

It's just pretty crazy how people are freaking out about their drone whereabouts being tracked. Unless you are involved in some sort of super illegal activity, you shouldn't even be worried.
 
It's just pretty crazy how people are freaking out about their drone whereabouts being tracked. Unless you are involved in some sort of super illegal activity, you shouldn't even be worried.

I see a few legitimate concerns:

1. Obsolences: Nobody wants their investment to become useless because their equipment won't comply with the new standard.
2. Privacy: Nobody wants the crazies to have their home address.
3. Government overreach: This is a legitimate concern, particularly with local and state agencies. It is THE REASON why Congress gave the FAA preemption powers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AntDX316
When it gets this stupid, it's time to get out of the hobby. Wonder if I would enjoy stamp collecting? Mmm...
 
  • Like
Reactions: MTO
You are mistaken. I am not describing the 400 foot bubble that is involved in "limited" Remote ID drones.

A "standard" Remote ID drone must (1) broadcast certain real-time data from the drone on Wifi frequencies (not to mobile phone towers) and (2) update an internet database in real-time. Note that (1) must come from the drone itself, but (2) need not. I'll discuss both of these requirements in the two paragraphs below.

While the broadcast on Wifi frequencies must come from the drone itself, most drones today have Wifi radios which are used to communicate with the controller. A simple firmware update will allow those radios to also transmit a burst every one-second or so with the unencrypted datastream required by the rule for standard drones. The purpose of this broadcast would be to allow anyone in the area with a smartphone or computer and the right app to get a map view of all the drones in the area simply by receiving the broadcast. The FAA rule specifically requires that these broadcasts occur on Part 15 frequencies and thus the broadcast CANNOT be sent out to mobile phone towers. In FCC parlance, a "broadcast" is a one to many, i.e., an FM radio station "broadcasts." A mobile telephone does not.

Note also that you will not necessarily need to broadcast your registration number with this broadcast. Rather, for your own privacy, you can instead opt to broadcast a unique session ID for each flight. The session ID would be generated by your Remote ID service provider. So, a police officer accessing the FAA system could determine your identity, but a neighbor watching the flight could not.

In contrast to the real-time Wifi broadcast that must come from the drone itself, the internet update need NOT come from the drone itself, but can be sent from the Remote Pilot using a mobile phone connected to the controller. Since most drone users today use their mobile phone to operate the camera and view real-time information about their drones operations (barometric altitude, speed, direction, etc.), a simple app update would allow that same data to be transmitted over the internet.

And again, if you have no internet, you can fly a standard drone as long as it is broadcasting the required data over Wifi. So, if you're on your farm and there's no internet, you're free to fly as long as your device is broadcasting the required data on Wifi, which it will have no trouble doing if you are controlling it using a 2.4Ghz or 5.8Ghz controller. On the other hand, if you have internet and your remote ID service provider is down, then you're grounded.

A limited Remote ID drone is the one that must operate within a 400 foot bubble. It will not need to broadcast anything from the drone. The Remote Pilot need merely update his location information via the internet in real-time. The limited Remote ID drone doesn't have to broadcast real-time data using Wifi. My suspicion is that this rule is to allow drones that won't be remotely controlled by radio (and thus not have a Wifi radio that can be used to broadcast the data), but instead will be remotedly controlled using gestures. So, if someone releases a selfie-drone in the future that has no Wifi radios whatsoever, the user can install software on his phone that will send the required internet updates, and then launch the drone and control it using hand movements. Since the drone won't be allowed to go more than 400 feet from the controller, updating the internet with the controller's location will be "good enough."

I'm not sure why the rule includes this, since such drones are likely to be under .55 pounds and not subject to the rule. It may be that the FAA contemplates changing the .55 pound rule in the future and wants to have a regulatory framework in place when that happens.


Well this is all interesting, because so far you are the only person out there I have seen saying something different than everyone else. It could very well be that you're right and they are all wrong; I don't yet know, but I hope you're right.

This "wifi broadcast" you are referring to, is this that "Aeroscope" thing? Do the Aeroscope stations communicate 2-way, or are they listen-only? Would there be enough of them to hear the rather weak wifi signal? Or would it not matter because they would only exist near airports where that info would be most important? I'm having trouble getting my head around this because most people think of wifi as a very limited, maybe 100 feet, communication between their devices and a wifi router. My very first drone was an AR Parrot that used wifi between my phone and the drone, and would lose connection about 100 feet away. I recently learned of something called "enhanced wifi" which is what the Mavic Mini uses between controller and the drone, like a couple of miles or so. All this so far requires 2 way communication between the 2 devices.

So, I'm not sure what it means to just broadcast wifi with perhaps nothing out there on the receiving end. From the ways that I am used to working with wifi, extrapolated for this remote ID use, the drone would try to establish a wifi connection with some remote device, and once established it then sends the info and would be allowed to take off. Failure to find a remote device to connect to would then prevent the drone from taking off. So, you're saying this new remote ID rule would allow a drone to just broadcast out the info, to whoever may be there, perhaps nothing at all, and it would be fine with not getting any response back, and would still take off?

If so, good. But, I'm rather worried that every news article, every youtube video about it even from well known drone experts, and every forum post out there is saying something different.
 
When it gets this stupid, it's time to get out of the hobby. Wonder if I would enjoy stamp collecting? Mmm...

If the final law looks anything remotely like the NPRM then recreational flying as we know it (and the industry it supports) will be over. It's already difficult enough to find legal areas and maintain compliance with regulations, and if your every movement is recorded and logged then the potential hassle/liability for even a innocent mistake or unintentional overflight (and let's face it, we've all made them) is simply not going to be worth it. I can say that if the kind of regulations contained in the NPRM existed at the time of my purchase then the purchase would never have been made.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MTO and Sparkywest
When it gets this stupid, it's time to get out of the hobby.

Yup. If we get a few more years, I'll get a lot of flying in between now and then and save a bunch of stock photography, then get out of it.

Not worth it to literally be on big brother's radar for something as innocent as a hobby.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MTO
Well,

Your P3S is constantly sending wifi transmissions (Video + GPS + Battery + Altitude + Speed) to your controller already. It wouldn't surprise me if we ultimately learn that all DJI drones are already transmitting most of the required data to support their own DJI Aeroscope drone tracking system. As a result, it probably will have no impact on battery life.

You are never required to have internet access. However, your Unmanned Aircraft System (the "System" includes your Unmnned Aircraft AND the controller) must have the technical ability to access the internet in places where it is available. As I noted above (and as indicated in the FAA's publication), the internet access can be at any point in the UA system. Internet access does not have to be on the UA itself. Only the Wifi broadcasts have to be on the UA itself. The FAA's notice has indicated that you can comply with that requirement via a mobile phone that is tethered to (or even used as) the controller.

As a result, no extra data plan or hardware should be required for most existing drones. A firmware update to broadcast the Wifi data in addition to the telemetry going to your controller will meet the broadcast requirement. And an app update allowing your phone to transmit the data to the internet database (when internet access is available) will meet the internet requirement.

If your UA System has the ability to access the internet, but there is no internet service, your UA can fly as long as it is also broadcasting the required data via Wifi directly from the aircraft itself.

If you guys are going to submit public comments, it is important that you actually understand what the rules will and will not require. Public comments that are based upon incorrect assumptions are likely to be ignored.

I see three major areas of concern:

1. Privacy: With this new system, the threat of harassment from people who don't want drones flying over their homes is a potential.

2. Municipal overreach: Cities that ban drone use in parks or even in the entire city could use the database to attempt to prosecute anyone who violates the ordinance, even though the ordinance is probably preempted by federal law. The fact of federal preemption may not stop the City from scouring the database once a year and imposing civil or even criminal fines against recreational park flyers. If you want, you can try to raise federal preemption in your local courthouse, but the Judge is unlikely to be as concerned about upholding federal preemption as he or she is with enforcing local ordinances. The best approach to avoid this would be to have the FAA be more specific about the scope of preemption, or to even create a system to have the FAA declare preemption, similar to how the FCC will declare as prempted various HOA rules/City ordinances relating to TV antennas and satellite dishes.

3. The 12-month limitation on applications for Remote ID free zones for flying clubs should be made unlimited. Five years from now, a new club may form and it may want to establish a place to fly. They shouldn't be prohibited from doing so simply because they came along too late.
I don't know why this is (hopefully software), but when I fly my drone, I have to disconnect my phone from mobile data for the drone WiFi to work and communicate. So this does not enable me to be compliant with what you're saying.

I don't know what the technical reason for this is, but I cannot fly connected to the internet.
 
Well this is all interesting, because so far you are the only person out there I have seen saying something different than everyone else. It could very well be that you're right and they are all wrong; I don't yet know, but I hope you're right.

This "wifi broadcast" you are referring to, is this that "Aeroscope" thing? Do the Aeroscope stations communicate 2-way, or are they listen-only? Would there be enough of them to hear the rather weak wifi signal? Or would it not matter because they would only exist near airports where that info would be most important? I'm having trouble getting my head around this because most people think of wifi as a very limited, maybe 100 feet, communication between their devices and a wifi router. My very first drone was an AR Parrot that used wifi between my phone and the drone, and would lose connection about 100 feet away. I recently learned of something called "enhanced wifi" which is what the Mavic Mini uses between controller and the drone, like a couple of miles or so. All this so far requires 2 way communication between the 2 devices.

So, I'm not sure what it means to just broadcast wifi with perhaps nothing out there on the receiving end. From the ways that I am used to working with wifi, extrapolated for this remote ID use, the drone would try to establish a wifi connection with some remote device, and once established it then sends the info and would be allowed to take off. Failure to find a remote device to connect to would then prevent the drone from taking off. So, you're saying this new remote ID rule would allow a drone to just broadcast out the info, to whoever may be there, perhaps nothing at all, and it would be fine with not getting any response back, and would still take off?

If so, good. But, I'm rather worried that every news article, every youtube video about it even from well known drone experts, and every forum post out there is saying something different.

@EndeavorOR is correct. The level of misinformation on this topic is quite staggering, which is very strange since the proposal is quite clear. Have you read the proposal - specifically section 89.110 on page 22?
 
As I've said above, you will not need to have internet service wherever you fly. As long as your drone has a Wifi radio and has firmware that causes it to broadcast the required data burst every one second on Wifi frequencies while it's flying, you'll be good to go even if you're in an area with no internet access.

I don't think that is correct. The summary of the "Limited Remote Identification UAS" operates within 400 feet of the control station and...

"is capable of connecting to the internet and transmitting the remote identification message elements through that internet connection to a Remote ID USS..." and "From takeoff to landing, the limited remote identification UAS connects to the internet
and transmits the required remote identification message elements through that internet connection to a Remote ID USS."

according to this you MUST have an internet connection.
 
@EndeavorOR is correct. The level of misinformation on this topic is quite staggering, which is very strange since the proposal is quite clear. Have you read the proposal - specifically section 89.110 on page 22?

It's laughable to suggest that a 319 page document, produced by the government and it's lawyers, is "quite clear". If it was clear, there wouldn't be so much confusion about it.

The section you referenced: "If the internet is unavailable at takeoff, or if during the flight, the unmanned aircraft can no longer transmit through an internet connection to a Remote ID USS, the UAS would have to broadcast the message elements directly from the unmanned aircraft from takeoff to landing. "

doesn't explain what it means to "broadcast" the message. Does it require it to be in 2-way communication with a receiver before it is considered successfully "broadcast"? If not, as EndeavorOR says above, that's good. But if it does (as everyone else out there is saying), that's bad.

Page 10 says "The FAA proposes to address the identification issues associated with UAS by requiring the use of new services and technology to enable the remote identification of UAS. " But, it doesn't say what that is. It just says it isn't ADS-B. Hopefully it is some thing that is truly broadcast-only. Considering it is 319 pages, demonstrating they don't mind writing lots of stuff, they really need to make that clear. It wouldn't kill them to make the document 320 pages in order to clear up this very important question.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dallas Drone Guy
I've read further to confirm the issue of internet connection if you're flying under the Limited Remote Identification classification. According to the earlier section of the proposal I referenced and deeper into the legislation it is that you MUST have an internet connection and if you lose that connection you must land as soon as possible...

"Unlike standard remote identification UAS, if a limited remote identification UAS cannot connect to the internet or transmit through an internet connection to a Remote ID USS, the UAS would not be able to take off. Again, unlike with standard remote identification UAS, if a limited remote identification UAS loses connectivity to the Remote ID USS in flight, the person manipulating the flight controls of the UAS would be required to land as soon as practicable. The limited remote identification UAS would not be able to continue its flight because it cannot broadcast remote identification message elements." page 96
 
I've read further to confirm the issue of internet connection if you're flying under the Limited Remote Identification classification. According to the earlier section of the proposal I referenced and deeper into the legislation it is that you MUST have an internet connection and if you lose that connection you must land as soon as possible...

"Unlike standard remote identification UAS, if a limited remote identification UAS cannot connect to the internet or transmit through an internet connection to a Remote ID USS, the UAS would not be able to take off. Again, unlike with standard remote identification UAS, if a limited remote identification UAS loses connectivity to the Remote ID USS in flight, the person manipulating the flight controls of the UAS would be required to land as soon as practicable. The limited remote identification UAS would not be able to continue its flight because it cannot broadcast remote identification message elements." page 96

Okay good, so that at least makes it sound like standard might let you fly without an internet connection, assuming this broadcast thing can be properly understood. No one would want a drone without standard if they could otherwise help it, unless it was truly a toy and you had good internet.
 

Recent Posts

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
143,094
Messages
1,467,600
Members
104,980
Latest member
ozmtl