FAA Registration Rules Announced NOW

[Reed L]

Merely threatening to call a cop if you don't give them your reg number might be enough. How else will they know you are registered without calling a cop?

When someone wants to arrest you under a "Citizens Arrest", you either have to be willing to let them or they have to be willing to try and restrain you. All they can legally do is call the police. I had a guy wanting to pull an unwarranted citizens arrest on me back in the day, I looked at him and laughed before walking away. He couldn't stop me and if he tried to hold me, I could have fought back for my safety. That's when I learned about dealing with those types. There's no law saying that you have to show Joe public your info.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Unbelievable! Do you really think a cop has the legal authority to walk up to you and just take your personal property??? THEY DON'T!
They can cite me or arrest me for breaking a law that falls within THEIR jurisdiction....Period! Short of that, I don't have to interact with them in any way and they sure as hell better keep their hands off my stuff!

All law enforecement officers have the right to investigate, and the FAA says, that if they ask, you must show them your certificate. It's in the 211 page report. If you can't produce one, they can theoretically impound your drone as evidence to turn over to the FAA for flying without being registered, assuming they or a witness saw you flying. They can. Whether or not they will is up to their discretion. Don't tick them off. Ever hear of an "attitude" arrest?

 

[bbfpv]

That remains to be seen. The FAA hasn't yet disclosed if the database will be reverse searchable by name.

What would that accomplish? This exercise is for loss and/or recovery, not to prove to law enforcement/whomever whether you own 1 or more UAVs. Proof of ownership would be possession of the UAV in person, or the cert # affixed to the UAV when it crashes somewhere (and is subsequently queried for in the db).

 

[pugwash]

So how many times is the registration site going to crash before you can get your number? Maybe this is why they will refund your $5 at the start. It will take them longer than that to iron out the software problems.

 

[Jeff48920]

Excellent information, Steve! Thank you!
"First show me your papers, and then I'll show you mine.
Otherwise, buzz off!"
If he has a gun and a badge, then I'll share willingly!

Steve got this very wrong. The restrictions apply solely to Part 61 certificates and licenses. That section deals with "airman certificate, medical certificate, authorization, or license"
These do not include the UAS registration certificates.

Check it yourself at https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title14-vol2/pdf/CFR-2011-title14-vol2-sec61-3.pdf.

As you implied and had been pointed out here, it appears both federal, state, and local LEOs may have authority to assist FAA in investigation of violations.

 

[aka1ceman]

What would that accomplish? This exercise is for loss and/or recovery, not to prove to law enforcement/whomever whether you own 1 or more UAVs. Proof of ownership would be possession of the UAV in person, or the cert # affixed to the UAV when it crashes somewhere (and is subsequently queried for in the db).

...... but it does, he becomes a double edged sword that can be used for harassment as well.

 

[Buckaye]

I did. That doesn't change the fact that this rule is unlawful, unconstitutional, and therefore null and void. I'm not saying there isn't a risk. That's the reality we live in when unchecked, bloated, constitution-violating government steam rolls over the American people as it has been doing massively for decades since 911 and for even longer than that.

Still doesn't change the fact that this law is unlawful, because our Tenth Amendment (higher than any federal law or code) says so. If you only care about downsides and risks when you are threatened and are unconcerned with principle and our nation and our rule of law, then I suspect you will register your drones. I understand it's a matter of self preservation for some. For many actually.

Which is why the state of our nation is what it is.

You do realize that the 10th amendment has only been used twice in 55 years to strike down a federal law and it is usually only done when the federal law places an undue burden on the state (Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). In and of itself, federal law is not a violation of the 10th Amendment.

In most cases, if the federal government creates a situation where the states will be granted incentives to participate (IE they are provided the funding to enforce), the ruling won't even be challenged.

You can try to lean on this if you want to... but unless you have a high powered attorney who will take your case all the way to the supreme court - your assumption that the law/rule is null and void is a precarious position.

 

[davis]

Sounds like when it happens we will all be wearing our registration on our hat's like the Fisherman in many states, but unfortunately it will be for our own safety.

i already have a lanyard with my AMA reg card in it. if you're going to be obvious when flying, make sure you look like you're legit and not some careless operator.

 

[LuvMyTJ]

i already have a lanyard with my AMA reg card in it. if you're going to be obvious when flying, make sure you look like you're legit and not some careless operator.

I always have my AMA card along while flying.
I also use a lanyard with my AMA card.

I am for safety, education, maybe in the form of a safety course, is a better way to make a difference. The current idea is nothing but a 'feel good' measure with no education behind it that will not get the desired results. Lets hope they lawyer up and fight this.

Some snippets from the latest AMA blog...

"AMA is disappointed with the new rule for UAS registration"

"the new rule is counter to Congress’s intent in the Special Rule for Model Aircraft and makes the registration process an unnecessary burden"

"The Special Rule for Model Aircraft in the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 clearly states that the FAA is prohibited from promulgating any new rules for recreational users operating within the safety guidelines of a community-based organization (CBO). Meanwhile, the FAA’s contention that model aircraft should be considered aircraft is currently the subject of pending litigation"

"On June 23, 2014, the FAA released its “Interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft,” (referred to as the “Interpretive Rule”), which imposed new restrictions on the use of model aircraft in direct contradiction to Section 336 and against the intent of Congress. The Interpretive Rule expands the definition of aircraft to include model aircraft, with which AMA disagrees. AMA has filed a petition to overturn the Interpretive Rule, which is still the subject of pending litigation."

 

[ianwood]

So I finally see what all the alarmists are saying.

I am really nervous one of my many enemies / evil villains will break into my house and steal my registration numbers and then fly a drone with my registration number into a nuclear facility. ...while making sure I have no alibi. ...and not getting caught themselves. Maybe they'll drug me and take a mold of my face to wear when they do it. This happens to me a lot.

I am also really nervous one of the aforementioned enemies / evil villains will be so determined to know where I live but have no other means to find it as to manually type in every drone registration combination possible until they find mine. It would only take them a couple of years. Very scary!

 

[Buckaye]

They are the play it safers, the fence-sitters, the "yes sir, how high" crowd who are willing to trade what others might describe as dignity, in order to be safer or not inconvenienced.

Well thought out response... Thank you... you are one of the rare people who really thoughtfully debate rather than just react emotionally.

I only take issue with the above. Someone who makes a decision to do something is decidedly NOT a fence sitter. Making a decision, by definition, removes that moniker.

And while some people, like myself, will choose to register because it is the "safe play" - there is something to be said for choosing one's battles.

I used to have a post-it on my monitor at work that read "All things are not of equal importance" I try to apply that to my everyday life.

IMHO this registration process is so minimal an imposition that if this is ALL that happens (and the government can pat themselves on the back because they "did" something).... I actually take that as a small victory. Here's my $5.00... give me my registration number... and my life goes on relatively unchanged (aside from the Venti Flat White I don't get to buy at Starbucks now).

But this registration does nothing to stop me from flying and hardly makes it more difficult to do so. In fact it's so little an imposition that I choose to pass this fight up and wait to see if a more meaningful battle arises.

As you say - to each their own. I am just one of those people who choose not to get bent out of shape about a decision another one of YOU want to make. I am frankly surprised at the name-calling that has gone on in this thread (not necessarily by you)... when all any of us are doing here is exercising our right to express our opinions.

 

[olof Ekbergh]

I always have my AMA card along while flying.
I also use a lanyard with my AMA card.

While I am for safety, education, maybe in the form of a safety course, is a better way to make a difference. The current idea is nothing but a 'feel good' measure with no education behind it that will not get the desired results. Lets hope they lawyer up and fight this.

Some snippets from the latest AMA blog...

"AMA is disappointed with the new rule for UAS registration"

"the new rule is counter to Congress’s intent in the Special Rule for Model Aircraft and makes the registration process an unnecessary burden"

"The Special Rule for Model Aircraft in the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 clearly states that the FAA is prohibited from promulgating any new rules for recreational users operating within the safety guidelines of a community-based organization (CBO). Meanwhile, the FAA’s contention that model aircraft should be considered aircraft is currently the subject of pending litigation"

"On June 23, 2014, the FAA released its “Interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft,” (referred to as the “Interpretive Rule”), which imposed new restrictions on the use of model aircraft in direct contradiction to Section 336 and against the intent of Congress. The Interpretive Rule expands the definition of aircraft to include model aircraft, with which AMA disagrees. AMA has filed a petition to overturn the Interpretive Rule, which is still the subject of pending litigation."

Our AMA club has hats with our AMA #s on them and most of our members wear them.

I wear mine almost always when I fly. Nice white baseball hat (cool in the heat) with gold letters in the back, you have to look pretty hard to read the numbers, but they are there. And the bottom of the brim is dark blue, this helps a lot with visibility on bright days and cuts reflections in the iPad when flying.

PS. I can't believe the size of this topic, I have nothing to add. This is a now a pointless discussion. Interesting what crawls out of the woodwork when federal laws are discussed.

 

[skyeboysteve]

I don't think this new registration regulation goes far enough. I believe that we should all have to plant large signs in our front yard reading "Registered Drone Owner", have the license plates on our cars painted pink, and have our addresses marked on google maps to warn the public. After all, we need to keep our children safe from the pariahs that drone people are.

Seriously though, if we're concerned about safety, why not require passing a written test on airspace--registration does nothing other than make our politicians think they've managed to make the drone-hating masses think they're safer and hence love and worship their politicians even more for "doing something".

 

[Darmie]

Snerd
Br-549

I think I found my new serial number for the drone I"m building.

 

[Flyer91]

So join, vote out the AMA leadership, and eventually 'effectively' take it over with sheer drone flying membership numbers.

If you truly believe the AMA is your friend and ally, please read their "advice" to the FAA about how they wanted the FAA to deal with us, while leaving them untouched and unregistered. It's all in the 211 page FAA document cited in the very first post of this thread. It's public record now. They can't lie to us anymore!

I can see I haven't been clear in my AMA post.
In no way did I mean to imply that the the AMA is our, or certainly 'my' friend, as they currently (and for quite some time) exist.

What I mean is that it's an 'already built, and politically connected organization' that has the resources, and voice in DC that can be used to make us heard, and would be much easier than building another organization from the ground up, and more effective than going it on our own, by each of us feebly attempting to make any significant change by writing our representatives as an unorganized individual endeavor.

But IMHO: it needs to have it's ranks filled with the rapidly growing number of people that fly drones, so we can basically vote out the current leadership (shell it) and rebuild it from within, by voting in a more pro-drone leadership, and/or force any current fence-sitters in the AMA leadership, to get off the fence by actively and 'aggressively' presenting a more drone friendly lobby in DC. .... and for the AMA to use the same means as the NRA does, as a "easy to use template" to let our voices effectively be heard by the proper people in government.

I'm open to other suggestions on how to best get our collective voices heard, but other than changing (gutting) the AMA from within, by joining them and forcing a leadership position change on drones using the membership vote, I don't know of a more effective, easier, nor quicker path that will accomplish us being heard in as a single and powerful voice, than to join 'em ... gut 'em ... and make the AMA present our views.
Kinda like the Greek Trojan horse, used to win the siege of Troy.

If you ... or 'anybody' else knows of a better way to go from where we are now (which is basically just continuing to say what's wrong, and point our fingers while we *****) or has a plan that has as good a chance of working, then I'm truly ready to try that too.

But after a few years of just bitching in forums like this (and kicking my dog!!) about the restrictions and regulations that negatively affect us ... I'm wanting to do something that has a chance of working.

So, after an equally number of years watching the AMA 'not' doing what I consider to being in my best drone flying interests, I'm taking the "you can't beat 'em if you don't join 'em" path, as totally opposed to the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" approach.
I 'sincerely' hope I've made that difference clearer, and I should have done a better job in my other post if it came across in any way that I'm an AMA fanboy.

So yeah ..... and after a lengthy period of not being an AMA member anymore ... for exactly due to many of the reasons you have posted about, I just re-signed up ..... with an evil "vote 'em out" smile on my face.
I encourage all of you to do the same, because if our numbers (read votes) don't make the power swing, then admittedly it could end up just adding fuel to the fire ... and our horse will just be a Trojan feast for the AMA.

But (and I mean this in all sincerity) what other 'viable' choice do we have, to be even 'mildly' as effective in steering our own drone flying regulatory future?

 

[yawnalot29]

It is scary to live in some of your world. I am glad my world isn't so scary and not everyone is out to get me, and I am left well alone by my neighbors, strangers, and local police. In fact more than one cute MILF came up to engage in conversation while I was flying at local school field.

I am also glad I was left alone and no one bothered me when I flew in Thailand, Taiwan, Singapore, Honduras, Mexico, and, Belize.

Maybe I just look harmless so no one give it a second thought.

 

[ianwood]

Seriously though, if we're concerned about safety, why not require passing a written test on airspace--registration does nothing other than make our politicians think they've managed to make the drone-hating masses think they're safer and hence love and worship their politicians even more for "doing something".

I agree. I personally believe there should be a drone license that is granted only when you can demonstrate knowledge of drone operations, airspace, and emergency procedures. Too many people think they own the air. The air is like a public road. To share it safely and effectively, you need to know how to use it and follow rules.

 

[joe21]

So join, vote out the AMA leadership, and eventually 'effectively' take it over with sheer drone flying membership numbers.

I think that is a very good idea. Personally, I will never give the AMA a dime. Read through the FAA documents on this matter. They pushed for registration - as long as it didn't affect their own "model" flyers. They threw us under the bus and then asked the bus drive to back up to hit us again.

The flaw I see in your plan is time. If "drone" people ever become numerous enough to have a say in the AMA, it will too late. Drones will likely be banned at that point. Meanwhile, we will be funding their efforts to have them lobby against us and create the bans.

I vote with my wallet. At this point I am seriously considering my P3 and getting out while the getting is good. The media, public, AMA and FAA are all against us. It is only a matter of time before there is nowhere to fly these things. Registration is only the start... there are _rules_ (not guidelines) in the works, and I don't think I will like those. People forget there is another option to register/not register... you can choose to sell your bird and find a less regulated activity. Declining sales is a more powerful tool than the tools at the AMA. It is my bet that the negative press combined with registration and the upcoming regulation is going to kill the potential of this market.

 

[joe21]

Too many people think they own the air. The air is like a public road. To share it safely and effectively, you need to know how to use it and follow rules.

I respectfully disagree. I have a few dozen acres of land in a rural setting. It is hours from any airport/airfield. That is where I fly. I **** well DO believe I own the air over my land. I acknowledge that I won't have much use for it after a certain altitude. Within reason, it is part of my property and NOTHING like a public road.


Careful what you wish for. Reading through the FAA documents on this topic, I see that mandatory testing and licensing is part of the plan and a very real possibility.

 

[ianwood]

I respectfully disagree. I have a few dozen acres of land in a rural setting. It is hours from any airport/airfield. That is where I fly. I **** well DO believe I own the air over my land. I acknowledge that I won't have much use for it after a certain altitude. Within reason, it is part of my property and NOTHING like a public road.


Careful what you wish for. Reading through the FAA documents on this topic, I see that mandatory testing and licensing is part of the plan and a very real possibility.

Like it or not the FAA regulates the air above your property. It is not yours to use exclusively.