FAA Contacted Me

[mark fallone]

Well said. YOU DON'T DO THE FLIGHT. THAT SIMPLE.

 

[ETC]

Well rules are rules and the FAA has pretty strong arms. Here is what I perceive as a problem with all this. First at 1 mile or 2 miles no plane should be flying at 100 or 200 feet unless it's mid crash or buzzing the neighborhood. I am not talking large terminals I am talking small airport where it should be against FAA rules for planes to be below the 500 foot ceiling at 2 miles from the airport. Fair is fair and the rules should apply to both sides.

 

[barefootbeachcombing]

I just received authorization from the FAA to fly within local Class C airspace. It took 133 days for the authorization with no comment, so I must have filled it out completely and provided the necessary information. Yesterday I decided to test and see what’s next when I have an actual mission within the scope of my authorization. I called the tower to say I was planning to fly my drone within their airspace. First question was “hobbyist or commercial.” I said commercial and was told I need an FAA authorization. I said I have it - do you want the number. They said to fax or email, and provided me the information. Then they asked the time frame for flight, so I made up a 2 hour window. They also asked the altitude and I said no more than 200 ft. AGL. They asked my name and contact info, which I provided. I also said I had an airband transceiver and would be monitoring their tower, and they said “great”. They said they would advise ATC and if they had any questions, I would hear from them. Never heard back, so all must have been good.

I’m guessing that the next time I call to advise a flight, since they’ve got my info, it will go a lot quicker. They thanked me for advising and said most drone operators don’t follow the rules, so they were quite appreciative.

FYI - I took my course from Remote Pilot 101. Their videos are outstanding. I got an 83 when I took the part 107 exam. I was getting 100s on their practice tests. So I have to commend them for all the material they cover to prepare you for the real exam. Restricted airspace, layers, weather - are all extensively covered in their course.

Once you get your authorization, you aren't supposed to contact the tower unless is specifically says to do that in your authorization.

 

[sar104]

Well rules are rules and the FAA has pretty strong arms. Here is what I perceive as a problem with all this. First at 1 mile or 2 miles no plane should be flying at 100 or 200 feet unless it's mid crash or buzzing the neighborhood. I am not talking large terminals I am talking small airport where it should be against FAA rules for planes to be below the 500 foot ceiling at 2 miles from the airport. Fair is fair and the rules should apply to both sides.

Rules do apply to “both sides” but, apparently, in the case of manned aviation, not the rules that you want. 14 CFR 91.119 applies, and I doubt that the FAA will change it just for the convenience of sUAS operators who don’t want to follow 14 CFR 107.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Catching up to this pretty late. Flying Squirrel, you got some pretty good advise here. I'm an FAA Safety Couselor (FAAST Team volunteer) and right now your actions are in the target of most FAA regions, be lucky you got a warning as the wrath could have been a lot worse. Don't fly in controlled airspace without authorization and I suggest you do some review of the FARS and airspace requirements.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Well rules are rules and the FAA has pretty strong arms. Here is what I perceive as a problem with all this. First at 1 mile or 2 miles no plane should be flying at 100 or 200 feet unless it's mid crash or buzzing the neighborhood. I am not talking large terminals I am talking small airport where it should be against FAA rules for planes to be below the 500 foot ceiling at 2 miles from the airport. Fair is fair and the rules should apply to both sides.

Read FAR 91.119, its not as simplistic as you say. There are many situations where aircraft will LEAGALLY operate under 500', the noted FAR is quite specific on this. If you see an aircraft operating at what you feel is a recklessly low altitude, you have avanues to report it. The FARs in their current format have been in place well over 50 years and the FAA is not going to change this system to support your hobby.

 

[phantom1972]

Well, they have their reasons. I didn't know I was breaking rules when I flew. It was only when they called me that I found out. Yeah, I feel unlucky. Lots of people I know do what I did without consequence. Oh well.

There reasons are BS. I fly full sized aircraft. There is no way in HELL, a plane is going to be at 200' 2 miles from the airport. You got unlucky for sure, and your competitor who ratted you out would regret it. "Revenge is a dish best served cold." Wait so they don't know it was you.

 

[sar104]

There reasons are BS. I fly full sized aircraft. There is no way in HELL, a plane is going to be at 200' 2 miles from the airport. You got unlucky for sure, and your competitor who ratted you out would regret it. "Revenge is a dish best served cold." Wait so they don't know it was you.

Not as part of normal airport operations, that’s true, but helicopter traffic may be that low, depending on the location. In rural locations, fixed wing may also be operating below 200 ft AGL for some activities.

I’m a bit surprised that a certified pilot would endorse and even recommend ignoring FAA regulations.

 

[DaveP4Pilot]

I can see how some airspace rules can be confusing. Passing the 107 while not knowing class B airspace goes to the surface is hard to believe. The nations (USA) busiest airports are class B! You would also have to ignore the warnings on the screen.

 

[phantom1972]

Not as part of normal airport operations, that’s true, but helicopter traffic may be that low, depending on the location. In rural locations, fixed wing may also be operating below 200 ft AGL for some activities.
Helicopters can be below 200' anywhere, and in rural areas, if it's sparsely populated enough fixed wing aircraft can come down to 0' AGL as long as 500' separation from structures, people, and property are maintained. Crop dusters...

I'd not recommend violating the rule for fear of getting caught, but safety wise I'd have a clean concience.

I’m a bit surprised that a certified pilot would endorse and even recommend ignoring FAA regulations.

 

[phantom1972]

In rural areas, if sparsely populated enough 0' AGL is legal with 500' separation from any structure, persons, or property. Helicopters can be 200' anywhere. In Class B airspace is it more likely. Maybe to keep them under fixed wing aircraft.

I'd recommend not violating in Class B airspace. But once I looked things over it would be fear of getting caught, not safety holding me back. You could live 2 miles from a Class B airport, and never have an aircraft at 200' over your house your entire life.

 

[phantom1972]

I am encouraged by the responses of many. But, I am desperately worried about the responses of a few. FAA has rules, I don't always agree with the rules or the rationale, but I abide by the rules. I am an instrument rated commercial pilot and a P107 pilot. I fly a drone to support a commercial real estate business. The cavalier attitudes of some such as "rules are meant to be broken" is precisely the attitude that will cost the rest of us dearly. Educate other users ... especially recreational users who may not understand the airspace regulations. Violations must be stopped. Short of averting a mid-air or other life threatening situation, an intentional flight into Class B airspace w/o clearance is reason to experience harsh consequences. End of story.

I posted a too cavalier response, and have to agree with you. I think starting the Class B airspace at say 200' in certain areas would solve the problem.

 

[George_Sav]

You got unlucky man. Rules are meant to be broken

Though I admire your bravado in this comment,I would suggest that the all encompassing statement about rules is both dangerous and asking for bad publicity against all drone users
Try driving against traffic on I-95 or flying your drone on the end of a runway etc
Rules are placed for your and others safety especially when it concerns the 3D habitat of a drone
Yes there are some rules that make little or no sense, however blatantly saying that some rules are made to be broken does not help other drone pilots, or your creditably!

 

[JTorsrud]

I'm confused that you say you are Part 107 certified but yet "didn't know" you were breaking the rules by flying in controlled airspace without authorization from the FAA. It sounds like you need to go back and study that part a bit more.

Just a little advice here for the individual posting. I would hope he knows the different Classes of Airspace. Easy way to remember CLASS B Airspace. CLASS B = BIG, BIG AIRPLANES! Most of the Class B airspace in the country is around Major Metropolitan Airports, (ie. Chicago, New York, etc.) Even licensed airplane pilots have to get special permission to fly in that airspace and unless you are landing at that airport you will be told by Air Traffic Control to "REMAIN CLEAR OF CLASS B AIRSPACE"! Just some thoughts. Take Care.

 

[firekat]

Flying Squirrel,

I just only recently received my certification. I have a fair amount of manned aircraft experience, Pt 91, 103, 135 & 121. I finished the entire training in about two hours including the test. I took voluminous notes during the training as I know a bit how the system works, so I have a fairly good idea what the important bits are. There was still a lot of information missing dealing with actual operational procedures.

Your experiences are a "Public Service Announcement" for all new Part 107 operators, including myself.

The body of the "CFR's" is complex and voluminous. There are so many sections that potentially affect the operation of your UAS, that has not been covered in your Part 107 training. In comparison to "regular" manned pilot training, remote pilot training is so minimal it is beyond belief. There is no "supervised solo" period. There is no indoctrination into the aviation operational world. You are just taught the most basic regulations, and allowed to go willy nilly into the airspace structure. Before you go operating near an airport you should you should recognize the importance of clearways and traffic patterns. That is a whole different section of the CFR's that has to do with airport certification! Not that you need to study that in depth, but having an understanding of it will give purpose to UAS operational restrictions.

Procedurally there is not a lot of guidance that is "how to". This can be fairly typical with the FAA. A lot of times the burdens of certification and operations are the responsibility of the user.

I am a neophyte to the remote pilot world. I would be VERY CAREFUL if I was to operate in ANY controlled airspace. I certainly have a lot to loose, more than a Part 107 cert, if there was an enforcement action.

Flying Squirrel, if you did not receive a letter, consider that you got a wrist slap. You should be able to go along your merry way. Review the regs. If you have questions get in contact with your local FSDO.

Visit the NASA ASRS site. This is a safety system that pilots use when they unintentionally break the regs or want to report safety issues that others can learn from. It offers some protection on certification actions for pilots but has a number of very important caveats attached. Reading those will give you some guidance as to how the FAA works. There is a lot of information on that site. When you go there I suggest you go to this document: Online Resources > FAA Compliance Philosophy.

As a caveat I would be careful what you post online, as this data can easily culled and used in an enforcement action. The big important issues are "intentional" & "deliberate".

In closing Flying Squirrel, what you have now developed, is that you now have created a channel of communication between you and the FAA. If you have other questions, you might want to ask the FAA representative you talked with.

 

[RussOnTheRoad]

You got unlucky man. Rules are meant to be broken

That sounds like a bad cliche from some movie, as well as being wrong. Factually, rules are made to be followed, often to protect people, such as those rules in place to keep people from causing catastrophic accidents that could cost many lives, e.g. don't drive on the sidewalk. Anyone think that rule should be broken?

 

[firekat]

Another resource:

Drone Pilots - AOPA

 

[trevsdad]

You got unlucky man. Rules are meant to be broken

Agreeing with previous posts....this is HORRIBLE advice. The big note here is that beyond the trouble you've caused yourself, flying without authorization 2-miles from class B airspace has the potential of running into a commercial flight on final, or departure filled with dozens of travelers who could die because of your error.

I assume this is not something you would want to happen.

That said, you seem eager to better understand the process. As stated earlier I encourage you to go 'back to school' to learn the rules and regs properly. Here's another recommendation for training.

Online Drone Training Courses | UAV Coach

 

[Indiana_pyro]

Flying Squirrel,

I just only recently received my certification. I have a fair amount of manned aircraft experience, Pt 91, 103, 135 & 121. I finished the entire training in about two hours including the test. I took voluminous notes during the training as I know a bit how the system works, so I have a fairly good idea what the important bits are. There was still a lot of information missing dealing with actual operational procedures.

Your experiences are a "Public Service Announcement" for all new Part 107 operators, including myself.

The body of the "CFR's" is complex and voluminous. There are so many sections that potentially affect the operation of your UAS, that has not been covered in your Part 107 training. In comparison to "regular" manned pilot training, remote pilot training is so minimal it is beyond belief. There is no "supervised solo" period. There is no indoctrination into the aviation operational world. You are just taught the most basic regulations, and allowed to go willy nilly into the airspace structure. Before you go operating near an airport you should you should recognize the importance of clearways and traffic patterns. That is a whole different section of the CFR's that has to do with airport certification! Not that you need to study that in depth, but having an understanding of it will give purpose to UAS operational restrictions.

Procedurally there is not a lot of guidance that is "how to". This can be fairly typical with the FAA. A lot of times the burdens of certification and operations are the responsibility of the user.

I am a neophyte to the remote pilot world. I would be VERY CAREFUL if I was to operate in ANY controlled airspace. I certainly have a lot to loose, more than a Part 107 cert, if there was an enforcement action.

Flying Squirrel, if you did not receive a letter, consider that you got a wrist slap. You should be able to go along your merry way. Review the regs. If you have questions get in contact with your local FSDO.

Visit the NASA ASRS site. This is a safety system that pilots use when they unintentionally break the regs or want to report safety issues that others can learn from. It offers some protection on certification actions for pilots but has a number of very important caveats attached. Reading those will give you some guidance as to how the FAA works. There is a lot of information on that site. When you go there I suggest you go to this document: Online Resources > FAA Compliance Philosophy.

As a caveat I would be careful what you post online, as this data can easily culled and used in an enforcement action. The big important issues are "intentional" & "deliberate".

In closing Flying Squirrel, what you have now developed, is that you now have created a channel of communication between you and the FAA. If you have other questions, you might want to ask the FAA representative you talked with.

AWESOME !!!!!! This is a perfect example of the adult way to educate people on their mistakes.

 

[Billmh12]

That's some horrible advice!! Unless you're willing to pitch in and help with someone's legal fees I would suggest keeping such advice to yourself. Hopefully anyone reading this has enough common sense to realize just how horrible this advice really is. I'm deeply disappointed in such an attitude. Professionals do not behave like this and risk their reputation, equipment, business, and FREEDOM by randomly "Breaking rules because they are meant to be broken". HORRIBLE!

I agree with you 100%. I was going to say something to badbrad. There are rules for a reason. IF drone pilots all go out and break the rules, then it will only come back to hurt us. Brad is obviously neither a professional or someone I would ever want to do business with. Flying Squirrel should have known better as well. 2 miles within an airport. Come on.