Exposure question

[gudgeman]

Do NOT use an ND filter. Those giving you that recommendation don't know what they're talking about.

Expose for the SKY. As one person said, there's too much to capture in one shot (exposure latitude), so expose for the sky and let your client recover the details in the shadow / foreground.

If they forbid auto and filters -- and will stitch themselves -- that means that they will also do the post-processing work. After the stitch, they can take the resulting image into software and lift up the exposure in the shadow areas to recover as much detail that exists there.

I've done a lot of AUTO shots with panos and I know what they're complaining about. Stitching software often takes care of it when blending, but not always.

What they're risking with a Phantom (which really can't do full manual) is having UNDER exposure, where areas of the foreground will be so dark that there will be no details to recover (much like there is no details in a blown-out sky to recover in OVER exposed images). They will also still have some blending issues even without full auto, because the camera will adjust as you change angles (the compensation dial can't stop that).

But they're calling the shots, eh?

Chris

I goofed and thought he was trying to cut the light out of a video- having said that- do you never use ND filters even for video? I’ve been able to reasonably maintain EV/exposure with them on very bright days. I should stick to medicine for giving advice (or learn to read) haha. Thanks

 

[Droner66]

Tech - I actually want it off so I start even with the horizon, not 30° above it. I'll search settings.

Gudgeman - I just ordered some ND filters. I have only had the UAV for a couple of weeks.

I have been watching videos, reading books on digital photography and searching forums. This has been by far the most helpful. Thank you all for putting up with my ignorance. It is truly appreciated.

Droner

 

[Tech]

Tick your +20 degrees to zero

Check in your settings menu for + 30 degrees and turn it on before each Pano shoot! It's usually off by default.

 

[Droner66]

That photo is actually from a manual that I downloaded. My pano settings do not have the +20 degrees.

 

[Droner66]

2nd set adjusted for the sky.

 

[Droner66]

Few more photos.

 

[MtManDavey]

Droner66, here is one approach... Initially, shoot your own samples on manual exposure, with the center for slight underexposure, and the ends dark enough to not be overexposed. As opposed to film, it's much harder to capture and process over-exposed digital images than under-exposed, much easier edited in post, such as LR or PS. Once you have established your own exposure parameters at 200 ISO, and did your own pano of the scene they wanted, then shoot the same exposures for their use and let them worry about matching, as it seems they want.

I do agree with a previous post that the exposure compensation would be useful if you don't have full exposure manual control on your model drone. On the P4P, I have a broad range of control, so less issue making those adjustments than a less capable camera, including while in the air and watch FPV for exposure.

Looking at your initial downloaded images, which I was able to open no problem, I see one more issue and you may not be able to avoid it based on the needs of the client... divergence. When you shoot panoramic images to be stitched together, and point the camera other than horizontal (in the case of drone work, down), the intersecting images to overlap will not match. Software has little correction for this, which I have experienced during interior real estate photography using an ultra-wide angle full frame Nikon lens. Not sure how they want you to capture areas of this nature, or if they care if the images don't overlap well, something to check with them directly and have a serious discussion about the capabilities and limitations of aerial photography and photography in general.

I agree with a previous comment that stitching requires the original exposures to NOT be edited prior to the panoramic stitch process, whichever software they are using. I look at it as providing the client images to meet their specified needs, not mine. As a pro photographer, it's up to me to figure out how to get those needs met or if I am unable, let them know that in the first place. Open and straightforward communications fixes many problems before they start.

 

[BluVūzAerials]

I would suggest shooting in cinelike with a custom picture setting of -1 brightness, -1 contrast, -1 exposure. That way you can easily modify pic in post production

BluVūz Aerials
www.bluvuz.com

 

[BluVūzAerials]

So I need a ND filter to help the exposure issue?

ND filters do help with exposure but it is meant more for video shots. ND are basically best used for any type of motion video shots. Helps create a blurred look of the objects in passing. Without it the video looks too sharp with no motion blur. It's hard to explain. Look up YouTube tutorials on ND and polarized filters. I highly recommend using ND polarized lenses. ND 8 PL and ND 16 PL are my go to. PL helps filter out UV rays so u can get better contrast, esp with clouds. Plus whenever u drone theres almost always going to be motion involved, so ur NDs come in handy. I never shoot without my ND PL.

Also definitely look into the litchi app for DJI drones. They have a panorama function and many other awesome picture functions like 360 pics. They're having a sale right now, 40% off the app

 

[Droner66]

I have been using Lichi and like it a lot. I have been using -2 -3, -2. I will tr

 

[Droner66]

Try the -1's. They also require that I shoot between 10am & 2pm. It's going to be another bright sunny day so I will be able to get s lot of practice shots in. Thanks again fellas.

 

[Meta4]

I just ordered some ND filters. I have only had the UAV for a couple of weeks.

If you are trying to shoot stills, leave the ND filters at home.
They aren't going to help you at all.
As was said in post #35, the people suggesting ND filters have no idea what they are talking about.

Unfortunately they have specific criteria that you must follow. No auto exposure. No filt

Unfortunately they have one other even more important criterion and that is that the images have to be correctly exposed.
So far, you are not coming close and until the images are properly exposed, you won't be able to sell them.
You need to practice a lot more and work out how to get proper exposure.
It's always going to be hard with a lot of dark foliage in the lower half of the image and a bright sky since the camera can't properly expose for both.
And it's probably even harder using an automated app to capture all of the images at one manual setting.
There are scenes and times of day where this is never going to get acceptable results.
You may have to work with the light to find conditions or time of day that gives more even lighting like this:

But forget about ND filters for stills. They aren't going to help at all.

 

[Chamblis]

About the best you could do with Photoshop etc is something like this:

But that degree of overexposure is one thing you can't fix.
There's nothing in the sky and it's 50% of the image.

Don't underestimate photoshop

 

[Meta4]

Don't underestimate photoshop

Yes, you can do a sky transplant to work on one of your own photos but it's not going to help the OP in this situation.

 

[screwston]

on my p3s i use AEB 5 shot for photos, and have them save in RAW... download photomatrix pro and merge all 5 shots to an HDR shot the AEB takes 5 shots at diff exposures... amazing photos... TRUE HDR. HDR setting on camera is junk

 

[Droner66]

My customer has their own criteria as the are doing the post work. I don't agree with them and but it's their dime. Learning a lot from this conversation. Thanks all.

 

[Chamblis]

Which would you choose?​

If you were doing a promotional picture, and you had a choice between a beautiful "transplanted" sky, and a nice well exposed, but inelegant "real" sky, which would you use?

Shoot RAW?​

They want to do the postproduction. So could you shoot it RAW for them? Wouldn't that give them all the image information and allow them to do whatever they want in post.

Despite it being sort or a waste of time, I would take my best pictures for them, give them all the data for post, but also give them what I did in postproduction. They can use it if they want, or do their own.

 

[Droner66]

Their criteria for my current shoot is:

JPG format, Auto exposure, 4000px x 3000px, 12MP

Video criteria was:

4K, 30fps, MP4 or MOV format, manual exposure.

I wish I could shoot in RAW but they want JPG.

Anyhow they wanted me to reshoot the pano but I could not do it fast enough for them and they gave it to another pilot. Then the next day they tried to reassign it to me. I told them no.

 

[BigAl07]

Which would you choose?​

If you were doing a promotional picture, and you had a choice between a beautiful "transplanted" sky, and a nice well exposed, but inelegant "real" sky, which would you use?

Most of what our company does I would call "promotional" and sky is VERY important. We shoot to our best ability for the landscape (unless the sky looks amazing) and then "replace" the sky to make it have as much POP as is possible and still within reason.

 

[kankankee]

I was doing a panorama shoot for a company (not going to mention name). Their criteria includes no filters and you cannot use auto exposure. It was very bright and sunny. I had my ISO on 100 and to even see a view I had to set my SP to 1/'120. Here is a sample photo. They rejected my shoot for overexposed pictures. Any advice on how I can get a lower exposure. I was using D-Log also.

Any help is appreciated as I have to go re-shoot and will not be making any money but hopefully will get more jobs.

Thank you.

Droner66

I'm using a P3s with no filters. I use the DLog setting that i have modified slightly to improve the original image to minimize my time spent in Photoshop. I set my camera to shoot both .jpg and .dng. I always shoot in manual mode without filters. An easy way to find out what will be an acceptable exposure is to slide into auto mode and use the exposure reticle to help see what an exposure will look like if shot in auto (just move it around on the monitor screen) and it will adjust the shutter speed for you. Take note of what works best over the expected range of the panorama by rotating the drone around and watching the what the auto exposure does. Then switch to manual mode and adjust the shutter speed manually to what the auto setting was. This will get you into the right exposure range and you will be shooting in manual. After you play with it a bit you will get the hang of just rotating through the shutter speeds manually without the help of the auto exposure mode. As you can see in the data below, P3s has a fixed aperature of f2.8. ISO is 100, and shutter speed on this sunny day with big clouds is 1/1600 sec. I processed the .dng image in Photoshop using the RAW filter (which open automatically when a RAW (.dng) image is opened in Photoshop). I then save it as a high quality .jpg. The first image is the Photoshop image and the second is the original .jpg. Hope this helps.



Filename - DJI_0008adob.jpg
Make - DJI
Model - FC300C
Orientation - Top left
XResolution - 240.00
YResolution - 240.00
ResolutionUnit - Inch
Software - Adobe Photoshop CS6 (Windows)
DateTime - 2017:04:05 18:46:53
ExifOffset - 208
ExposureTime - 1/1600 seconds
FNumber - 2.80
ExposureProgram - Not defined
ISOSpeedRatings - 100
ExifVersion - 0230
DateTimeOriginal - 2017:04:05 17:20:39
DateTimeDigitized - 2017:04:05 17:20:39
ShutterSpeedValue - 1/1600 seconds
ApertureValue - F 2.80
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MaxApertureValue - F 2.00
SubjectDistance - 0.00 m
MeteringMode - Center weighted average
LightSource - Auto
Flash - No flash function
FocalLength - 3.61 mm
ColorSpace - Uncalibrated/Unknown (-1)
ExifImageWidth - 3992
ExifImageHeight - 2242
FileSource - DSC - Digital still camera
SceneType - A directly photographed image
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Manual
White Balance - Auto
DigitalZoomRatio - 0.00 x
FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 20 mm
SceneCaptureType - Standard
GainControl - None
Contrast - Hard
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Hard
SubjectDistanceRange - Unknown
Serial Number - 2014031100
Lens Info - 20.70 20.70 0.00/0.00 0.00/0.00
Lens Model - 20.7 mm

GPS information: -
GPSVersionID - 2.3.0.0
GPSLatitudeRef - N
GPSLatitude - 38 56.001801 0 (38.933363)
GPSLongitudeRef - W
GPSLongitude - 95 12.3838 0 (95.206397)
GPSAltitudeRef - Sea level
GPSAltitude - 360.64 m

Thumbnail: -
Compression - 6 (JPG)
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
JpegIFOffset - 1042
JpegIFByteCount - 5075