End of hobby flying in USA?

[N017RW]

Part of the reasoning behind Line Of Sight drone operation is that it keeps the drone and person relatively close together so there is an association between the object and the operator apparent to others, including aircraft pilots.

e.g. If I’m flying my aircraft below 500 ft in an uncongested and sparsely populated area, and I see a person, I may not fly near them without violating FAR PART 91.13 Careless or Reckless Operation. As long as the drone is LOS and 400 ft or less, the aircraft pilot is at fault for any mishap.

Your last sentence in the second paragraph is not only wrong but also irresponsible to post such.

It’s very easy to research the FAA’s UAS consumer and commercial operator and operating limitations.

There is a hierarchical order regarding the R-O-W of various aircraft.

 

[Tampatexan]

After watching that video, I sent an email to Chad Budreau at the AMA. Here is his reply:

*****************************
Despite what is being said in the video - AMA was present at the round table meeting on counter drone technology. This round table was not intended to be focused on recreational flying (nor was 336 even referenced in the agenda); therefore, legislators did not call upon AMA to testify. The video neglects to tell the entire story.


The discussion shown at this committee meeting is not new, but a daily battle that the AMA has been waging for several years. The fact that 336 remains in place should demonstrate that your voice is being heard.


While excerpts of this meeting seemed detrimental to model aviation, the YouTube video also fails to point out that many legislators were supportive of our hobby. The Chairman of the Aviation Subcommittee and others acknowledged that members like you are responsible and Congress should “protect the people who haven’t done anything wrong.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8HdhmwoQyw&feature=youtu.be&t=1h11m1s These statements in favor of AMA members and the hobby were made because we regularly champion for the hobby in DC.


What's also important to note is that we were active in the aviation rulemaking committee on Remote ID championing for our members. That effort included 26 face to face meetings last May-July. Again this was not addressed in the video.


While it is important we remain active in House discussions, our focus has shifted to the Senate because the House already adopted our language on 336 weeks prior to this round table. In fact, while the House Aviation Subcommittee was assembled, other members of our team were meeting with the Department of Defense and key members of the Senate to preserve our hobby.


I hope this helps,

Chad
************************************

 

[chalupadrop]

Another ‘The Sky is Falling’ report.

I have no worries that the model aircraft I have been flying since the ‘70s will become illegal.

I also believe that the video is an overreaction. I wonder if the author actually contacted the AMA for their reaction? I contacted the AMA and they are in fact representing model aviation in the US. Their response to my inquiry was:


"Thank you for reaching out to us with your concerns about this video.

The AMA Government Affairs team is aware of a recent roundtable meeting of the U.S. House Aviation Subcommittee on Counter Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS). While excerpts of this meeting seemed detrimental to model aviation, it is important to note that many legislators were supportive of our hobby. The discussion shown at this committee meeting is not new, but a daily battle that the AMA has been waging behind closed doors for several years.

This roundtable was not intended to be focused on recreational flying; therefore, legislators did not call upon AMA to testify as subject matter experts. Never-the-less, the AMA Government Affairs team did attend this Counter UAS meeting, and many legislators and industry experts stated hobbyists are not the problem. In the following link, the Chairman of the Aviation Subcommittee, Rep. Bill Shuster, acknowledged modelers have been operating safely and Congress needs “to protect the people who haven’t done anything wrong.”

We thank Rep. Shuster for recognizing the importance of model aviation and seeking to protect hobbyists in future legislation.

While it is important we remain active in House discussions, our focus has shifted to the Senate because the House already adopted our language on 336 weeks prior to this roundtable. In fact, while the House Aviation Subcommittee was assembled, other members of our team were meeting with the Department of Defense and key members of the Senate to preserve our hobby.

The road ahead will be challenging, but be assured that we have successfully pushed back on this opposition for years and will continue to push back. We will also provide additional updates and progress reports on the Special Rule for Model Aircraft in FAA reauthorization legislation. The most current information is available on our website at modelaircraft.org/gov and we encourage you to reach out with any questions. In the coming weeks, we may ask for your help to engage with your senators on the importance of the hobby, so please continue to monitor your emails and social media."

 

[rkingsb353]

Does anyone know their names and their position that are on this committee. I want to email them my thoughts on the 336 rule. Email is the only way the committee will know our feelings on this matter.

 

[JoeG729]

Your question has a couple of parts.



If AMAZON and the other big hitters get their way they will be afforded a "section of airspace" that they and only they can operate in. I haven't seen the request lately but at one time they requested to carve out all airspace from 200'-400' and designate it as "Delivery UAS only". That would seriously put a cramp on our industry.

They would have to make provisions to attempt to avoid flying over large crowds/groups and I can fully see that being "Waiverable" in the future with the right technology etc.



That's a bit of a stretch wouldn't you say?

I was being sarcastic. However seagulls may have to file a flight plan for each flight.

 

[eeire54]

No need for hysterics on this. We fly our drones, hobby and otherwise, in uncontrolled airspace. There are very few rules, even for aircraft, in uncontrolled airspace. The FAA will no more restrict drones to AMA fields than they will restrict VFR aircraft to the airfield itself. Stop the panic, before someone panics.

If you really want to get to know how it’s all going, show up at your state’s next Business Aviation meeting. I haven’t heard of a single state that is anti-drone, and actually quite the contrary. State Business Aviation Associations have a lot of power with the FAA. I’m a member of Virginia’s Business Aviation Association. They are very active in promoting drones. Why? Huge revenue potential. Just as we have state registration and property taxes on aircraft, sales tax on services, and licensing for companies, etc for aircraft, I can guarantee the states will eventually require registration and other fees for larger drones. It’s big money, and the FAA is on board with it.

As the owner of a turbine aircraft management and pilot services company and a UAS services company, I don’t find any current rules to be unnecessary, nor overreaching.

30-years in the air with one close encounter with a commercial drone close to Pittsburgh while flying a jet with 6 people on board. The FAA isn’t out to terminate our hobby, nor our living.

Just hope the hobby doesn’t get turned over to Ca. DMV, oh that’s scary!

 

[AeroStadt Aviation]

Your last sentence in the second paragraph is not only wrong but also irresponsible to post such.

It’s very easy to research the FAA’s UAS consumer and commercial operator and operating limitations.

There is a hierarchical order regarding the R-O-W of various aircraft.

Actually, no, it is not wrong. Right Of Way based on aircraft type does not apply during reckless operation. If a drone is flown within its parameters and an aircraft is flown recklessly within close proximity to people, in the case I stated, the aircraft pilot will be faulted for reckless operation under that FAR.

Fly a manned ballon through an air show, get hit by a plane, which should, under right of way rules give way to the balloon, and see who is at fault. It will be the balloon pilot. Right of way is not license to break the reckless clause of the FARs.

 

[AeroStadt Aviation]

Perfect example...

I decide to hot dog in the jet at tree top level, fly directly over a drone operator, take the drone in the intake, and get forced into an emergency landing.

I would most definitely be at fault, not the remote pilot. I broke a FAR resulting in an incident/accident. The drone operator was flying within the regs, yet didn’t yield... no ability to because of the low altitude and speed of the aircraft approaching unseen.

Don’t believe me? Contact your FSDO and toss that scenario at them.

I have a pretty thorough understanding of the FARs after 30-years of Part 121, Part 121 SUP, Part 141, Part 135, Part 91, and Part 91 PU operations entailing writing SOP manuals for two companies and a SMS program for another.

 

[The Springs]

Another ‘The Sky is Falling’ report.

I have no worries that the model aircraft I have been flying since the ‘70s will become illegal.

"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer."
Frank Zappa 1940-1993

Well we have plenty of beer no nuclear weapons though. When our former female Prime Minister met with your president she'd say "Is that a nuclear missile in your pocket or are you just happy to see me? "
Humor. Our number one defense strategy .Invade ? Nothing here but desert and roos mate. Go for it .

My thoughts on the topic are that its been proven the world over that the most efficient way for government authorities to make changes is with the least possible input from those that it will most effect .
It also appears that they are also talking about some form of real time tracking?
I always liked this section from Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy. Relevant in so many ways .The sky is not falling but...

 

[lasersbee]

As seen in the video of the meeting it is clear that the
Commercial Drone entities want our Hobby Airspace
for themselves while trying to stomp out our Hobby in
the process.

I heard not a word from any AMA representatives in that
meeting... Quite a one sided meeting...IMO

 

[Stevie_UK]

I foresee ADS-B tech being implemented within the drone industry. Simplified, ADS-B sends and receives accurate position data to other aircraft and air traffic control. Filters allow what traffic is displayed.

So, our drones have GPS. Our drones communicate with the controller. Our controllers are interfaced with a tablet device. Tablet devices have the ability to connect to WiFi or cellular. WiFi and cellular can connect to the internet. The internet can feed and receive ADS-B. Our app can display traffic on a map. The app can give audio and visual alerts.

For those operating a drone with a connected tablet, sending and receiving ADS-B position of traffic would greatly reduce the chance of mishap.

ADS-B is required in most aircraft by the end of 2020. We already have it in both of our aircraft.

Would be easy to incorporate adsb direct into the aircraft, decoding the signals on 1090 is a trivial task.

How about an app that runs in the background and simply beeps if an aircraft is below a certain height, withing a certain radius? I'm forever scanning the skies in case of non conforming airline pilots!

There are many exceptions for aircraft. Police and military included, but also see planes broadcasting limited (useless here) information from their transponders for whatever reason.

Great idea though and something I've thought of often.

 

[Gosurvey]

Your last sentence in the second paragraph is not only wrong but also irresponsible to post such.

It’s very easy to research the FAA’s UAS consumer and commercial operator and operating limitations.

There is a hierarchical order regarding the R-O-W of various aircraft.

I'm all for banning hobbyists. Get the toys out of the sky and leave it for the professionals !!

 

[BigAl07]

I'm all for banning hobbyists. Get the toys out of the sky and leave it for the professionals !!

@Gosurvey Welcome to the forum. I'm not sure such a a bold first statement on a majority hobby forum is going to win you any friendship points.

You do realize that hobby aircraft out number professional ones many Many MANY times over. Also many of us "Hobbyists" have more hours logged in sUAS than the vast majority of today's "Professionals". Some of us fly for fun (hobby/336) as well as making $$ (Part 107) and some of us even do this on a state level with Emergency Services. Some of us have been instructing/teaching sUAS operations longer than some current "Professionals" have been sucking air here on planet Earth.

I'm pretty confident in saying hobby flying will not be banned unless there is some major incident involving loss of life. If that happens professional operations will also take a significant hit in the pants too. If there is an incident significant enough to get John Q. Public scared/upset enough to cause change, that change is going to be wide spread and painful from the top down in the sUAS industry as a whole. To think that "Us" professional sUAS operators are immune to such actions is on the verge of silly.

Sincerely,
Allen
Hobby sUAS operator since 1974
sUAS Instructor since 1986
Commercial sUAS operations since 2010
Section 333 Operator since 2014~15
Part 107 Operator since Aug 29, 2016
NC State Emergency Services sUAS Operations #003

 

[lasersbee]

I'm all for banning hobbyists. Get the toys out of the sky and leave it for the professionals !!

Hmmm... First Post....
Troll Much ???

 

[mschore]

Required education and a license for hobbyists would not be a bad thing anyway... think of it as getting a learner's permit or license to drive a car.

When has a drone ever killed anyone? or caused great property damage? Who pays for the "education and license"? Such nonsense. [Comment removed by Moderator]

 

[flockshot]

The hobbyist and the commercial drone drivers, can't even get along on a website. Not just any website, but a website designed for the purpose of sharing drone information

Now think about the "rule makers" who have never even flown a drone, trying to sort this out.

In the world of automobiles, we have personal drivers, and we have commercial drivers. All sharing the same roads, with different levels of education and responsibilities. No problem.

This is what is needed for the drone community. Different levels of responsibility and education, sharing the same basic set of rules of the road. Speed limits, where flying is allowed, where it is not allowed, night flights, altitude limits, proximity to people. One basic set of rules that are easily understood, and reasonably enforced.

 

[BigAl07]

When has a drone ever killed anyone? or caused great property damage? Who pays for the "education and license"? Such nonsense. [Comment removed by Moderator]

Keep in mind this is a VERY new technology in terms of Gyro Stabilized, GPS guided, and autonomous flying aircraft all in one neat, affordable and uber easy to fly package. Factor in the sheer magnitude increase of the #'s on the street today and it's a miracle nothing major has happened yet. Factor in those who have the mindset that they have the "Right" to fly their sUAS anywhere, anyway, and at any height they desire and the picture gets more and more bleak for the future.

 

[BigAl07]

This is what is needed for the drone community. Different levels of responsibility and education, sharing the same basic set of rules of the road. Speed limits, where flying is allowed, where it is not allowed, night flights, altitude limits, proximity to people. One basic set of rules that are easily understood, and reasonably enforced.

Possibly one of the best expressed and most accurate assessments I've seen on this topic. In other-words:

NAILED IT!!

 

[NRRTRAINS]

all this starts out with just register your drone . at first it's free then it will be $10 then $25 then more . it's always about the money , yes every one take the test , for a price but if you fail it will cost you another fee . it will never end .

 

[BigAl07]

all this starts out with just register your drone . at first it's free then it will be $10 then $25 then more . it's always about the money , yes every one take the test , for a price but if you fail it will cost you another fee . it will never end .

You don't know what you're talking about. Registration for an aircraft has been $5/yr for 2 decades now. Did it suddenly go up and I just missed it? I've got dozens of aircraft registered and they are still $5/year unless this changed in the last few weeks.

Aviation Tests have cost $150 since I took my first one back in 1995 and still costs $150 today.

If you're going to be a Big Boy and play with the Big Boys then you need to anty up and play by the Big Boy rules. Otherwise stay on the porch and watch the rest of us having our fun and making $$ as well.