Discussing battery and range tests (AND NOTHING ELSE)

Jussaguy · Mar 28, 2016

*I am working my way up chronologically from the bottom (first flight where I was battery testing was "Yesterday at Moorpark 13737 F 19 minutes, max alt 631 although technically well over 8000 ASL) and worked my way up. (the 16 minute flight was not a test). ANY DISCUSSION IN THIS THREAD about anything other than batteries, range or tests is forbidden. **It is also forbidden to say any of your results without some sort of proof of your flight. Now this is an internet forum and you can ignore all that or we can try for the common goal of figuring out time and range for the AVERAGE P4 user. Not someone with a 3 foot exntender on their station.

I spent a few days in the mountain in Moorpark at a beautiful villa to help try and figure out some real times and create a thread WHERE WE DISCUSS only battery and range tests and if you have a result to post, IT MUST BE BACKED up with some proof.

I have only just returned so I have a snap shot of the telemetry just to show that the logs are actual flights all over the place and not hovering (whether hovering increases or decreases battery life on a flight is yet to be figured out for sure).

Here are my logs for the P4. Her name is Layla and I don't normally fly missions non-stop so only the ones in Moorpark over 19 mins were part of this slightly controlled experiment.

All but the 16 minute Moorpark flight were part of that experiment. The first 19 min flight was the maiden flight on that bat and it returned with 19% left l, the next 22 minute flight was on like its 7th or 8th flight and returned with 26%. You can do your own math and come up with your own conclusions as to what the actual time would be if flew out but these are the results of my tests over two day and four flights. I got 19mins (19% remaining) with a brand new battery (literal first time) and then 22 minutes (26% remaining) from a bat with about 7-8 flights.

Now I am not a big range guy and I wasn't going to risk my bird for the people that are but I was interested since I was getting much better results there than I do in LA so I did go out about a mile on one of the flights but turned around on the first hiccup.

What says yesterday was the day before yesterday and what says times now, was yesterday.

It is my understanding (sorry forgot your name, dirty something) did a controlled hover test, please post your results. I would love to see them as again, it is my theory that hovering actually uses more power by constantly starting and stopping props (like turning a car on and off is worse on city gas than driving in the city).

This next picture is just to show the telemetry of one of the flights You can figure out which flight it is by looking at max altitude and time.

This is the telemetry for the 24 minute flight at the very top of the top logs and keep ion mind that everything across the homepoint was looking over a ledge that made it immediately in actuality well over 8000 feet so I was flying at around 10am in the cool morning air. I will upload the video telemetry later. If I have to, I'll figure out a way to screen capture it with QT as I don't have an app on my iPad that can do it.

If you don't agree with my methods by all means, go ahead and make suggestions. If you did your own tests, THAT'S EXACTLY why I made this thread was to try and get the actual data from the "I only got 11 minutes off of a battery this morning" which I read in one of the "I'm happy I didn't buy a P4" thread that was the catalyst for me to make sure my memory wasn't completely off.

So, please, I BEG, can we all act like adults here and discuss battery and range tests with screen captures, videos and metadata info. No saying "this happened". Honor system will have to be a little in place.

I was personally happy with results, especially the 24 as it was on a VERY windy day and as you can see, I wasn't just sitting around but booking, as I was out of media at that point.

This wont mean much to anyone but I got this far at breakneck speed and had no problems but I wasn't about to go over a second valley that I don't even know.

This is the view of the air I was over, directly off the precipice of their house.

This next picture is why I was paying attention to things other than PhantomPilots even though I did spend a lot of time and got yelled at plenty by my wife and daughter for walking away to perform these tests but did so because I was not believing what I was hearing as flight times in some of the thread. In reality, I think this picture shows I am a man with a family who doesn't have the desire nor the inclination to have goofy battles over things that I didn't even care that much about. If this got the same EXACT amount of battery life as the P3P (it doesn't), I would feel deceived and frustrated but I would be more annoyed if I missed a new episode of The Simpsons.

PLEASE, DON'T POST IF YOU ARE NOT POSTING legitimate questions, thoughts, or your own studies.

There, I didn't want to waste the time I spent, and I did try to control for this, and just throw it away. I didn't even reformat my card so I could get actual family pics because I ran out of card because I wanted to have the video to eventually upload of my tests so I am going to try this again and see if people can just continue on and tell us what your findings are. These are mine.

Techcop50 · Mar 28, 2016

Thanks for the post. Interesting...

Jussaguy · Mar 28, 2016

Techcop50 said:
Thanks for the post. Interesting...

Thank you.

By the way, I think my best result was the 22 minute one as I still had 26%. ASSUMING THE RESULTS of flying dont take a drastic tumble in time at the bottom 25%, that 22 minutes was returned with a 26% flight time (that time was the best conditions, warm after an IMU calib and cool thin air, I believe is favorable). Using my results you can add around 25% more which would be 25% of 22 mins as 5.8 minutes is 26% of 22 minutes. I had much less percentage left on my 24 minute flight (the latest one).

I will do more here in SoCal.

Tripc · Mar 28, 2016

Are you guys testing battery times flying very gentle.. or full throttle. Reason I ask. Took my maiden yesterday. Sise by side with P3 advanced. Ran 11500 feet with my P3 and returned with about 60%. Tail wind going out hitting about 30-35-mph and head wind the way in floored at 22mph.
Now same run with P4 and returned with about 40% . But the P4 run took about 4 mins less time and I was averaging alot more speed going there and coming back.

Techcop50 · Mar 28, 2016

That's good to know, but OP was talking mainly maximum flight times. The advertised "28 minutes" is what has everyone's dander up.
My bad, your range trumps my inability to read the header...

Jussaguy · Mar 28, 2016

Tripc said:
Are you guys testing battery times flying very gentle.. or full throttle. Reason I ask. Took my maiden yesterday. Sise by side with P3 advanced. Ran 11500 feet with my P3 and returned with about 60%. Tail wind going out hitting about 30-35-mph and head wind the way in floored at 22mph.
Now same run with P4 and returned with about 40% . But the P4 run took about 4 mins less time and I was averaging alot more speed going there and coming back.

I am testing my batteries with this control (and granted it's very variable). I am going in sport mode, intelligent modes, P mode, RTHs, straight up, straight down (all this stuff is completely random but I wanted to get a general rather than control it just by hovering).

Judging by your results, you must have been in S mode because the P4 is slower in P mode than the P3 in all modes. I was in P-mode going almost 50mph on the way back from about a mile straight away (going into the wind) as I had gotten the wind from Hover but my I screwed up and it wasn't until I reviewed the telemetry that I realized I was flying with a headwind when I thought a tailwind and vice versa which makes me wish I knew what that 50mph would have been going the other way.

Also, you weren't really posting a study here, but in and I REALLY appreciate your input but a reminder, if you are going to post in this thread about anything other than the results posted, no claims can be made without the associated proof.

I say that FULLY believing everything you are writing but I am trying to create a thread that is completely free of people making claims that either don't have a P4 and are just saying things or if we can figure out flight times based on things other than just what the battery is.

RIGHT now, I am going to go in my backyard and do a hover test with my about 9 flight older battery and see what I get. I have this thought that hovering, contrary to your natural inclination MIGHT take up more time than actually flying. I am going to sit level at about 5 feet and let it hover until it at 1% and will post the results. I will record video the whole time to so when I make a comparison, i will also do that.

Be back with that info soon.

FredzMaxxUAV · Mar 28, 2016

Jussaguy said:
Judging by your results, you must have been in S mode because the P4 is slower in P mode than the P3 in all modes.

No. The P4 is slower in P mode only when obstacle detection is switched on. If it's switched off, then the P4 is just as fast, if not a little faster.

P with OA: about 8-9 m/s
P without OA: about 15-18 m/s
S: 20+ m/s

Tested without wind, multiple times, all in GPS mode.

Jussaguy · Mar 28, 2016

Fredz said:
No. The P4 is slower in P mode only when obstacle detection is switched on. If it's switched off, then the P4 is just as fast, if not a little faster.

P with OA: about 8-9 m/s
P without OA: about 15-18 m/s
S: 20+ m/s

Tested without wind, multiple times, all in GPS mode.

I didn't realize that the P4 raised it's maximum speed with OA off. Interesting and good to know but frankly, doesn't matter in this conversation. Thanks though. Learn something new every other day.

Tripc · Mar 28, 2016

Fredz said:
No. The P4 is slower in P mode only when obstacle detection is switched on. If it's switched off, then the P4 is just as fast, if not a little faster.

P with OA: about 8-9 m/s
P without OA: about 15-18 m/s
S: 20+ m/s

Tested without wind, multiple times, all in GPS mode.

You are correct. Everything was turned off.
To the original poster with all the rules. Is it ok if I post here while I'm at work with some questions that have to do with the battery timing and WAIT to furnish PROOF when I get home later tonight?

Jussaguy · Mar 29, 2016

Tripc said:
You are correct. Everything was turned off.
To the original poster with all the rules. Is it ok if I post here while I'm at work with some questions that have to do with the battery timing and WAIT to furnish PROOF when I get home later tonight?

I'm the one that started the thread and it was my intention to get actual results with proof of those results so we can figure out what these batteries got.

And yeah, if you're gonna post your findings, by all means.

My last two hover test have me 25 mins in P mode the whole time, and I believe I had obstacle avoidance off, honestly don't remember as I didn't know it made a difference but it was windy as hell and I think that affects hovering. My theory is that hovering gives you less battery time.

Here are my results from today's two tests. The first one is my older barter with maybe 12-15 on it now and the newer one with about 7 cycles maybe?

Either way, 25 mins both times hovering only. I'll post the pics in a minute.

Jussaguy · Mar 29, 2016

OK, this evening I did two hover tests. Now what I did, was I used the camera for a lot of it but I just plain forgot about it for some. It was because I wasn't shooting and I made a stupid mistake. As some might know, I had a theory that hovering might use as much or more battery as flying continuously because even if it's windy, it finds it's equilibrium and goes that way but when the bird is stationary, it is constantly using the flight board (CPU power) to turn on and off speeds using the ESCs for the props (everything there, especially the slow and fast inconsistent prop movement is a hog).

Because of this and also because in the North Valley of the San Fernando Valley, where I live in SoCal, it was a pretty humid and cool day. Sort of perfect and I thought I would get past the 28 mark even hovering. Nope. I got the 25mins each time. Like before I used the battery that has about twice the usage of the one that now has about 7-8 rotations. In all honesty, I never bought in too much to the "breaking in battery" theory but having bought these two so close together, I am seeing the difference. The older one is performing better, but it's negligible and I don't care about it. Frankly, I don't even care about a 5 minute difference but I'm trying to mingle around here. It has yet to go well.

So here is my log to show the 2 25 minute flights on my hover. (I also recorded some video of the winds so you could see what I'm talking about on the fixing it's location while windy could cause just as much or more as 50mpg, I don't know).

By the way, I live VERY close to Burbank airport, a small airport and I would never try to fly near my house but I knew I was just hovering so I wasn't concerned. I got this NFZ warning, but it let me take off. Put it this way as to how close to that national airport is, I could land my drone on that runway in under 3 minutes. I just knew I was staying near my house and not more than even 40 feet up.

Shouldn't that have stopped me from flying?

Now, I want you guys to look at the video here because the next one has even stronger winds and it was between the two videos and between the videos, I did a IMU and compass calibration and there was a noticeable difference in quality.

Here is the less wind, before the calibrations:

Here is the same bird after the dual IMU/Compass calibration. I think there is a noticeable difference and the there were a lot more heavy gusts on this one. Anyway, don't forget the point, there was all this wind and I was ABLE TO GET TO 25 which to me is fine. That said, I got 25 but running the battery down. I do believe I have enough information on what drives the battery down or up to get a 28+ video. I shall get one soon. I think even 30 is doable if the conditions are perfect.

johnbowen · Mar 29, 2016

Jussaguy said:
*I am working my way up chronologically from the bottom (first flight where I was battery testing was "Yesterday at Moorpark 13737 F 19 minutes, max alt 631 although technically well over 8000 ASL) and worked my way up. (the 16 minute flight was not a test). ANY DISCUSSION IN THIS THREAD about anything other than batteries, range or tests is forbidden. **It is also forbidden to say any of your results without some sort of proof of your flight. Now this is an internet forum and you can ignore all that or we can try for the common goal of figuring out time and range for the AVERAGE P4 user. Not someone with a 3 foot exntender on their station.

I spent a few days in the mountain in Moorpark at a beautiful villa to help try and figure out some real times and create a thread WHERE WE DISCUSS only battery and range tests and if you have a result to post, IT MUST BE BACKED up with some proof.

I have only just returned so I have a snap shot of the telemetry just to show that the logs are actual flights all over the place and not hovering (whether hovering increases or decreases battery life on a flight is yet to be figured out for sure).

Here are my logs for the P4. Her name is Layla and I don't normally fly missions non-stop so only the ones in Moorpark over 19 mins were part of this slightly controlled experiment.

All but the 16 minute Moorpark flight were part of that experiment. The first 19 min flight was the maiden flight on that bat and it returned with 19% left l, the next 22 minute flight was on like its 7th or 8th flight and returned with 26%. You can do your own math and come up with your own conclusions as to what the actual time would be if flew out but these are the results of my tests over two day and four flights. I got 19mins (19% remaining) with a brand new battery (literal first time) and then 22 minutes (26% remaining) from a bat with about 7-8 flights.

Now I am not a big range guy and I wasn't going to risk my bird for the people that are but I was interested since I was getting much better results there than I do in LA so I did go out about a mile on one of the flights but turned around on the first hiccup.

What says yesterday was the day before yesterday and what says times now, was yesterday.

It is my understanding (sorry forgot your name, dirty something) did a controlled hover test, please post your results. I would love to see them as again, it is my theory that hovering actually uses more power by constantly starting and stopping props (like turning a car on and off is worse on city gas than driving in the city).

This next picture is just to show the telemetry of one of the flights You can figure out which flight it is by looking at max altitude and time.

This is the telemetry for the 24 minute flight at the very top of the top logs and keep ion mind that everything across the homepoint was looking over a ledge that made it immediately in actuality well over 8000 feet so I was flying at around 10am in the cool morning air. I will upload the video telemetry later. If I have to, I'll figure out a way to screen capture it with QT as I don't have an app on my iPad that can do it.

If you don't agree with my methods by all means, go ahead and make suggestions. If you did your own tests, THAT'S EXACTLY why I made this thread was to try and get the actual data from the "I only got 11 minutes off of a battery this morning" which I read in one of the "I'm happy I didn't buy a P4" thread that was the catalyst for me to make sure my memory wasn't completely off.

So, please, I BEG, can we all act like adults here and discuss battery and range tests with screen captures, videos and metadata info. No saying "this happened". Honor system will have to be a little in place.

I was personally happy with results, especially the 24 as it was on a VERY windy day and as you can see, I wasn't just sitting around but booking, as I was out of media at that point.

This wont mean much to anyone but I got this far at breakneck speed and had no problems but I wasn't about to go over a second valley that I don't even know.

This is the view of the air I was over, directly off the precipice of their house.

This next picture is why I was paying attention to things other than PhantomPilots even though I did spend a lot of time and got yelled at plenty by my wife and daughter for walking away to perform these tests but did so because I was not believing what I was hearing as flight times in some of the thread. In reality, I think this picture shows I am a man with a family who doesn't have the desire nor the inclination to have goofy battles over things that I didn't even care that much about. If this got the same EXACT amount of battery life as the P3P (it doesn't), I would feel deceived and frustrated but I would be more annoyed if I missed a new episode of The Simpsons.

PLEASE, DON'T POST IF YOU ARE NOT POSTING legitimate questions, thoughts, or your own studies.

There, I didn't want to waste the time I spent, and I did try to control for this, and just throw it away. I didn't even reformat my card so I could get actual family pics because I ran out of card because I wanted to have the video to eventually upload of my tests so I am going to try this again and see if people can just continue on and tell us what your findings are. These are mine.

Dude, seriously.

Were the folks in this picture at some sort of 60s nostalgia party?

BTW, that is a legitimate thought and question on my part.

Jussaguy · Mar 29, 2016

johnbowen said:
Dude, seriously.

Were the folks in this picture at some sort of 60s nostalgia party?

BTW, that is a legitimate thought and question on my part.

Nope just a couple of knuckle head friends that had access to the 4 million $, literally one of the nicest place I've seen brother in laws house and us hanging. That look he has, pure joy. Maybe it is a 60s thing. After all things look good in the 60s. Now let's talk about what your family looks like, photos please.

frands1 · Mar 29, 2016

If I fly nonstop, I cannot get more than 18 mins in each battery. I use to fly P2 and P3 over 20 mins (about 22 mins) with no issues. I understand all the changes, sensors, etc... but this is something they should have addressed it before release, in my oppinion. And, they knew it, because webpage listed 28 mins and then they kinda backed off and print 26 mins in the box.
Just saying, it's pure fact that these batteries don't perform to the specs listed and dont even match previous versions (P3 and P2). At least, this is happening to me and several others out there.

msinger · Mar 29, 2016

frands1 said:
it's pure fact that these batteries don't perform to the specs listed and dont even match previous versions (P3 and P2).

It's a common misconception that DJI advertises the average flight time. The Phantom 4 specs clearly show 28 minutes is the max flight time. And, some have reached that max flight time. Historically, the average flight time is always about 5-6 minutes less than the max listed in DJI's specs. Assuming history is repeating itself with the Phantom 4, 22-23 minutes is a good expectation to have. It appears the OP is showing that can be achieved in his findings above.

Myetkt · Mar 29, 2016

So I did some checking since in the past you have had a tendency to exaggerate a little, both as level6 and your new name. Seems Burbank (or Bob Hope) airport which is close to you at Cartwright AV and Victory Blvd. (I grew up in the valley and know right where you are) only had winds of 12 miles an hour with gusts of 16 mph according to Burbank Airport records. No where near the 30 mph you clame. And seeing you are around other homes and an apartment complex they would give even more of a wind block since you never went more than 10 feet high. So once again you have made clames you can't back up and that go against your own rules of not posting unless you have proof.