CE / FCC

[virtual27]

Hello,

I recently bought a P3 SE from the DJI store.
I live in Belgium so I assume the drone is flying under "CE conditions".
I'm quite unsatisfied about the range. In an open area, I've been able to reach 100 meters height and 400 meters distance.
As far as I know the only way to change to FCC is by using a tool called Magic Power but this only works for the P3 Standard and P3 4K, right?
Is there any other way available to change a Phantom 3 SE from CE to FCC mode or increase the range in general?

Regards,
D.

 

[0v3rrid3]

There is no way to change modes on SE currently. Are you shure that there is no strong interference beacuse 400m on open area is very low for SE. I can go up to around 3km on open area and 1-1.2km in urban area. I would suggest that you try in diferent area and also make shure that your antena are parallel to the drone.

 

[chatikib]

I also own a P3SE and fly without any problems a distance of 1,800 meters. There is no reason to find your solution in adjusting to FCC. If you have a bad connection, then you usually find a solution by looking to the following points:

- Do you really fly in a open area? Or are there any power cables, solar panels or other interfering factors. The P3SE has an ultra-sensitive WiFi signal.
- Use a tablet or phone of good quality. So at least 2GB memory. Have you disabled all other features (airplane mode) in your tablet or phone.
- Start the installation in the correct order. First the remote control, let it connect to your tablet / phone and after that start your drone.

And have a look at this guy:

 

[julioboss]

Thanks to post my Video Chatikib! ;-)
Yes i made this flight without modifications. But i think there is maybe some chance to be under good or bad conditions:
i mean that for some flights in the same place, i can go far away and others i cant. I suppose the drone use GPS to know where he is right, but needs internet connection to validate area (class area, airport close or CE or FCC?). Then i suppose maybe if you cut your internet connection on your phone, and GPS on your tablet, it can sometimes help to go more far away. i bought a new tablet (due i have lags) and will make some distance tests again to confirm or not how it reacts. keep you informed.

 

[Guilhem]

Hello,
I'm french and i have the same problem as Virtual 27. I confirm that it is specified 500 meters distance in datatsheet for CE mode. I am really surprised to read "I can go up to around 3km" with "CE mode"... I think you are in fcc mode because the mode is automatically switched with GPS position (it is specified 2000 meters distance in datatsheet for FCC mode) . I confirm that Magic Power works only for Ph Std and 4K . I look for another solution
Sorry for my bad english
Guilhem

 

[iflyp3s]

Thanks to post my Video Chatikib! ;-)
Yes i made this flight without modifications. But i think there is maybe some chance to be under good or bad conditions:
i mean that for some flights in the same place, i can go far away and others i cant. I suppose the drone use GPS to know where he is right, but needs internet connection to validate area (class area, airport close or CE or FCC?). Then i suppose maybe if you cut your internet connection on your phone, and GPS on your tablet, it can sometimes help to go more far away. i bought a new tablet (due i have lags) and will make some distance tests again to confirm or not how it reacts. keep you informed.

I live in a CE environment and used the MagicPower Mod to make the system think it was in a FCC zone. Your comment about the internet connection I believe is half right at least.

I use a 6th generation iPod touch which works great (same processor as an iPhone 6) but I never connect it to the internet while flying my P3S so I am not bombarded with updates for the firmware, which if I applied one of these updates, it would undo my MP mod.

However, the person asking about the range of their Phantom won't experience any difference by cutting the connection or not - the Phantom will stay on CE mode until it has verification from both GPS and data/WiFi that the Phantom is now in an FCC area.

I'm not sure if the MagicPower mod is available for the SE just yet. To my knowledge (I may be wrong here) it was only ever made for the Standard and 4K models which both use the WiFi controller, whereas the Pro/Advanced models use Lightbridge technology and thus did not need any improvement. Seeing as the SE uses the same controller as Stan/4K, i believe it should work.

 

[chatikib]

Magic Power is not available for the P3SE. They (DJI) lock the backdoor.

 

[Andrewrok]

As i said in other post the range issue of the Se is not due by flying in strong interference area.....there is for sure another solution.
Dji said Se in Ce mode max 500mt....ok i assume that who fly their Se 3km far away or is a lucky man or for a reason their drone has not switched in Ce mode....
In the same places where my Se had a poor connection now i fly with an Ph3 advance with great signal.......But the places have the same "strong interferences" that keep the Se very close to homepoint..
I asked to dji more times...they have no solution for me....they said to change flying places....is not the solution sorry!!
And i tried to modify antennas....bad bad bad idea!!!doesn't work...

 

[Free_bird]

Hello guys and girls,

As I am also owner of a Phantom Vision 2 plus I found an interesting issue in the manual. Namely the controller of the Vision 2 plus can manual set to CE or FCC mode.
I found on the back of the Phantom 3SE also a trimmer-hole, but no instruction. Could this trimhole be the switch setting CE or FCC ???

Its a pitty, I opened the controller and found no trim-unit on the board. So not equal to P2 (Vision plus).

 

[dazmatic]

I can confirm that the Magic power mod doesn't work on the P3SE. You can log in to the SE using FTP but the branch you enter into doesn't allow you root access to the files so you can't go any higher in the folder chain.

In terms of range? I've had 5km out of my SE on 2 occasions. Any obstruction however small will interfere with the signal though. Keep your fingers away from the top of the RC!

 

[VonMacher]

Ok,
and I can confirm that P3 SE won't go a much over 200 meters. I use 5.8 GHz tho, since for unknown reason can't switch to 2.4.

 

[Mark The Droner]

The P3 SE will go 4000 meters in FCC mode. DJI claims it will go that far and there have been posts by pilots who have flown that far or nearly that far. I believe those posts are in this forum somewhere. Long distance is not plug and play. Experience and knowledge is required.

Everybody who flies the SE uses 5.8 ghz for control because that's all there is.

Almost everybody uses 2.4 ghz for FPV/telemetry because that's the default. There is at least one person in this world who has successfully switched this signal from 2.4 ghz to 5 ghz via the Go app. Obviously to switch to 5 ghz, the mobile device must have the ability to use 5 ghz wifi and the 5 ghz wifi setting must be enabled. His video is posted on the DJI forum.

Please do not confuse the 5.8 ghz control signal with a 5 ghz FPV signal.

Hope this helps.

 

[VonMacher]

The P3 SE will go 4000 meters in FCC mode. DJI claims it will go that far and there have been posts by pilots who have flown that far or nearly that far. I believe those posts are in this forum somewhere. Long distance is not plug and play. Experience and knowledge is required.

Everybody who flies the SE uses 5.8 ghz for control because that's all there is.

Almost everybody uses 2.4 ghz for FPV/telemetry because that's the default. There is at least one person in this world who has successfully switched this signal from 2.4 ghz to 5 ghz via the Go app. Obviously to switch to 5 ghz, the mobile device must have the ability to use 5 ghz wifi and the 5 ghz wifi setting must be enabled. His video is posted on the DJI forum.

Please do not confuse the 5.8 ghz control signal with a 5 ghz FPV signal.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for this reply.
This simply can not be the case within CE regulations.
Believe it or not, I have a huge experience flying UAVs a way over 70 km (back in a days), so knowledge is not an issue neither.
It is just simple as that. That thing is crippled here in Europe.
Now about switching bands... When I switch from 5.8 to 2.4, my RC disappears from my mobile device wifi. It is a dual band device, so RC should be visible. At that time RC is still in control of aircraft. If, and only if I restart RC and drone WiF connection is reestablished to its original state i.e. DGI Go has full control.

Anyway, I'll wait for someone to find out how to run FCC on P3 SE.

 

[Mark The Droner]

...
Now about switching bands... When I switch from 5.8 to 2.4, my RC disappears from my mobile device wifi. It is a dual band device, so RC should be visible. ....

I don't understand why you keep saying this repeatedly. Maybe English is not your first language? Maybe you're from Deutschland? Okay. Please read my post above again.

There is no switching from 5.8 to 2.4. You must mean you switch from 5 ghz wifi to 2.4 ghz wifi.

There is no 5.8 ghz wifi with the SE or any other P3 wifi Phantom.

Are you sure you have 2.4 ghz wifi enabled on your mobile device?

Yes indeed, CE mode is different specs. CE mode is only 500 meters according to the spec sheet.

Phantom 3 SE –Specs, FAQ, Tutorials and Downloads

 

[VonMacher]

I don't understand why you keep saying this repeatedly. Maybe English is not your first language? Maybe you're from Deutschland? Okay. Please read my post above again.

There is no switching from 5.8 to 2.4. You must mean you switch from 5 ghz wifi to 2.4 ghz wifi.

There is no 5.8 ghz wifi with the SE or any other P3 wifi Phantom.

Are you sure you have 2.4 ghz wifi enabled on your mobile device?

Yes indeed, CE mode is different specs. CE mode is only 500 meters according to the spec sheet.

Phantom 3 SE –Specs, FAQ, Tutorials and Downloads

Thank yo for your reply.
You are right about that. English is not my first language. And no, I'm not from Germany but from Croatia.

5 Ghz is a common name for WiFi frequency ranges and 811.11a/h/j/n/ac standard which covers down from 4.195 GHz up to 5.865 GHz. But you know that already.
Now, there is switching (or changing) frequency range (band) in DJI Go application (applicable for P3 SE, something like DJI Go 4 compatible drones), and that will change the link frequency range between drone and RC.
At the moment my default setup is 5 GHz (channel 149 - 5.745 GHz, channel is changeable with no problem) link to drone, and RC to mobile device communicate in 2.4 GHz range. Since 2.4 GHz has better range on open field, I would like to change link to drone frequency to 2.4 GHz. This should obviously change RC - mobile device link frequency to 5 GHz frequency range.
I believe my mobile device is not automatically recognizing 5 GHz WiFi so that is why RC disappears from WiFi listing.
Just have to find a way how to engage 5GHz WiFi on my mobile device.

 

[PhantomFlyer3SE]

I use android device (Blackview 7000) and can freely switch between 2.4 GHz ang 5 GHz wifi. As I'll able, will do some testing to compare the range with two different setting. Based on other person's testing I do not wait to see a big difference

 

[Mark The Droner]

Thank yo for your reply.
You are right about that. English is not my first language. And no, I'm not from Germany but from Croatia.

5 Ghz is a common name for WiFi frequency ranges and 811.11a/h/j/n/ac standard which covers down from 4.195 GHz up to 5.865 GHz. But you know that already.
Now, there is switching (or changing) frequency range (band) in DJI Go application (applicable for P3 SE, something like DJI Go 4 compatible drones), and that will change the link frequency range between drone and RC.
At the moment my default setup is 5 GHz (channel 149 - 5.745 GHz, channel is changeable with no problem) link to drone, and RC to mobile device communicate in 2.4 GHz range. Since 2.4 GHz has better range on open field, I would like to change link to drone frequency to 2.4 GHz. This should obviously change RC - mobile device link frequency to 5 GHz frequency range.
I believe my mobile device is not automatically recognizing 5 GHz WiFi so that is why RC disappears from WiFi listing.
Just have to find a way how to engage 5GHz WiFi on my mobile device.

Hi - I think I finally understand what you're saying - partly in thanks to DJI Susan's post in the DJI forum.

See post 17 here: 2.4 and 5 Ghz - DJI Phantom 3 SE

Here is the part where I believe you are confused: At the moment my default setup is 5 GHz (channel 149 - 5.745 GHz, channel is changeable with no problem) link to drone, and RC to mobile device communicate in 2.4 GHz range. Since 2.4 GHz has better range on open field, I would like to change link to drone frequency to 2.4 GHz. This should obviously change RC - mobile device link frequency to 5 GHz frequency range.

I am pretty sure the last sentence is incorrect. It may seem logical and obvious, but DJI's FPV wifi systems have not been working this way since the beginning. Historically, both of the FPV links have been in the 2.4 ghz range, which is to say, the FPV link from the AC to the controller has been in the 2.4 ghz range, and the FPV link from the controller to the mobile device, which is a different signal on a different frequency, has also been in the 2.4 ghz range. There is no conflict as you might suspect. The SE is different than previous wifi Phantoms in that it has the capability of changing FPV frequency from the AC to the controller - and it can change to "5 ghz" band, but the link between the controller and the mobile device remains the same, that is, it remains a 2.4 ghz wifi signal.

Meanwhile, my understanding is, the control signal is still 5.8 ghz and it is always 5.8 ghz, and that is true with all the wifi Phantoms (note that the P1 and straight P2 are not really wifi phantoms and so they have 2.4 ghz control signals, and the lightbridge phantoms are also not wifi phantoms).

 

[VonMacher]

Hi - I think I finally understand what you're saying - partly in thanks to DJI Susan's post in the DJI forum.

See post 17 here: 2.4 and 5 Ghz - DJI Phantom 3 SE

Here is the part where I believe you are confused: At the moment my default setup is 5 GHz (channel 149 - 5.745 GHz, channel is changeable with no problem) link to drone, and RC to mobile device communicate in 2.4 GHz range. Since 2.4 GHz has better range on open field, I would like to change link to drone frequency to 2.4 GHz. This should obviously change RC - mobile device link frequency to 5 GHz frequency range.

I am pretty sure the last sentence is incorrect. It may seem logical and obvious, but DJI's FPV wifi systems have not been working this way since the beginning. Historically, both of the FPV links have been in the 2.4 ghz range, which is to say, the FPV link from the AC to the controller has been in the 2.4 ghz range, and the FPV link from the controller to the mobile device, which is a different signal on a different frequency, has also been in the 2.4 ghz range. There is no conflict as you might suspect. The SE is different than previous wifi Phantoms in that it has the capability of changing FPV frequency from the AC to the controller - and it can change to "5 ghz" band, but the link between the controller and the mobile device remains the same, that is, it remains a 2.4 ghz wifi signal.

Meanwhile, my understanding is, the control signal is still 5.8 ghz and it is always 5.8 ghz, and that is true with all the wifi Phantoms (note that the P1 and straight P2 are not really wifi phantoms and so they have 2.4 ghz control signals, and the lightbridge phantoms are also not wifi phantoms).

Thanks for this reply. I placed a question to DJI Susan regarding this, because it is somehow confusing. Still waiting for an answer, LoL.
Anyway, took my wife's Samsung G8 and guess what, changing from default 5.8 GHz to 2.4 GHz (in DJI Go WiFi settings) - RC disconnects from phone WiFi (was on 2.4 GHz, checked with WiFi analyzer), and reconnects to 5.8 GHz phone WiFi (Ch 149). Now I am sure, at that point link RC - AC changed to 2.4 GHz. Do both FPV & commands run through the same frequency band, it is still not conclusive for me. Believe they do because both signals drops more or less at the same time. Will run some tests when my ARGtek arrives, with removed antennas.
Sad thing is that it will not stay in this setup after turning off RC, but will go back to default 5.8 GHz link RC-AC.
Another sad thing, there is still no solution for FCC with P3 SE.

EDIT:

Just checked DJI forum. DJI Susan answered:
"When the APP indicated 5.8 GHz in DJI GO, it means that the image transmission and RC signal between aircraft and RC is 5.8 GHz, while the working frequency between RC and mobile device is 2.4 GHz."

You've seen it also Mark...

 

[Mark The Droner]

Yes ... there are still some gray areas (confusion) regarding the SE..

Edit: One of the things that is confusing is you say your FPV default is 5.8. That seems odd to me because I believe in the USA the FPV default, as shown in the app, is 2.4. In fact, many don't even realize they have the option to switch to 5.8.

Your info above conficts with what DJI Susan is telling us. If I understand you correctly, you're saying the frequencies seesaw. You're saying you have evidence and experience to show that if FPV signal AC to controller is 2.4, the FPV signal controller to mobile device (wifi) is 5.8. And vice versa. So now I don't know what to make of it. This stuff is proprietary, and there's no good reason DJI would teach all their people the intricacies of how these connections work, so it's very possible Susan is making assumptions and giving us bad info. Also, know that the DJI people are reluctant to give us a lot of details about this even if they think they know the answers, and may ignore some of our questions.

Re the FPV and telemetry, I think it's pretty much been established that the telemetery uses the video's audio channel to move that data from RC to controller to mobile device. In other words, the telemetry is embedded into the video, then the video is broadcast to the controller. Hence, when the video arrives, we have no sound but we have telemetry. So yes, the FPV and telemetry are carried on the same signal. However, sometimes when you're on the edge of range and there is signal weakness, you will lose FPV and still have telemetry, or you'll lose telemetry and still have FPV. If it's very weak, sometimes you'll lose both, but get intermittent updates on a particular telemetry detail but not on others (e.g. distance will update, but nothing else will), and these oddities will show up in the log. When you get back into range, most of the time the FPV or telemetery returns, but sometimes it doesn't return and you have to fly home with FPV or telemetry alone.

 

[VonMacher]

Yes ... there are still some gray areas (confusion) regarding the SE..

Edit: One of the things that is confusing is you say your FPV default is 5.8. That seems odd to me because I believe in the USA the FPV default, as shown in the app, is 2.4. In fact, many don't even realize they have the option to switch to 5.8.

Your info above conficts with what DJI Susan is telling us. If I understand you correctly, you're saying the frequencies seesaw. You're saying you have evidence and experience to show that if FPV signal AC to controller is 2.4, the FPV signal controller to mobile device (wifi) is 5.8. And vice versa. So now I don't know what to make of it. This stuff is proprietary, and there's no good reason DJI would teach all their people the intricacies of how these connections work, so it's very possible Susan is making assumptions and giving us bad info. Also, know that the DJI people are reluctant to give us a lot of details about this even if they think they know the answers, and may ignore some of our questions.

Re the FPV and telemetry, I think it's pretty much been established that the telemetery uses the video's audio channel to move that data from RC to controller to mobile device. In other words, the telemetry is embedded into the video, then the video is broadcast to the controller. Hence, when the video arrives, we have no sound but we have telemetry. So yes, the FPV and telemetry are carried on the same signal. However, sometimes when you're on the edge of range and there is signal weakness, you will lose FPV and still have telemetry, or you'll lose telemetry and still have FPV. If it's very weak, sometimes you'll lose both, but get intermittent updates on a particular telemetry detail but not on others (e.g. distance will update, but nothing else will), and these oddities will show up in the log. When you get back into range, most of the time the FPV or telemetery returns, but sometimes it doesn't return and you have to fly home with FPV or telemetry alone.

Well, maybe just because I'm not in the USA my default is 5.8 GHz. Can not tell... DJI Susan just confirmed what I mentioned before. No confusion there any more.
I really do hope DJI people told us precise and correct information, otherwise it would be bad for them. It is bad enough to sell same product with different specs according to the region. Honestly, I am so angry that my P3 SE will fly no more than 500 meters away with bad non fluid FPV, while at the same time guys in FCC region can easily do 2+ km with nice and fluid video feed.
It is not about mileage, but video quality which is guaranteed with greater power output (and better antennas but that is doable - modable).

Telemetry, FPV and command signals. Yes, they are carried through the very same channel. What you are mentioning here was ancient technology of analog signal transmission, where you had carrier signal (UHF, L band, S band or whatever), and frequency modulated video signal + audio signal in "reserved" space within one channel. There was no other way to send telemetry along with the picture at that time, except on board video mixer. Believe me, been there, doing that a long time ago.
In modern, digital transmission, it is easy to incorporate (encode and decode) all signals in one channel, so no need for special carrier signal. So, I believe now it is a matter of priority regarding safety here. For safe flight first you need is reliable control signal, than telemetry and at last video feed. Not to mention that video signal occupies most of the carrier signal (for commands and telemetry you basically need few bytes of info). Philosophy is very simple, you must be able to send command "RTH" even without video and telemetry feed, regardless DJI Go setup. At least I would do it that way...
And than, if you can not recuperate video/telemetry, there is still command line in charge to get your bird safely home. Bottom line here, you are always able to control your bird, no matter what is going on with DGI Go app.