Bill being drafted to destroy drones (especially photo drones),

I understand that you don't like the proposal, but are you addressing the narrow point that I was arguing, or a broader objection to the provisions to take action?

Just to clarify, the point I was discussing was the issue of government liability. The clause in questions is:

(f) JURISDICTION.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no court shall have jurisdiction to hear any cause or claim, including for money damages, against a covered person arising from any authorized action described in subsection (b).
Note that is says "against a covered person" not against the agency. The discussion section following the proposal attempts to explain this section:

Unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) are commercially available, challenging to detect and mitigate, and capable of carrying harmful payloads and performing surveillance while evading traditional ground security measures. However, some of the most promising technical countermeasures for detecting and mitigating UAS may be construed to be illegal under certain laws that were passed when UAS were unforeseen. These laws include statutes governing electronic communications, access to protected computers, and interference with civil aircraft.

....

Subsection (a) sets forth the savings clause discussed above. Though many provisions in Title 18 may conflict with authorized Counter-UAS activities, certain statutes are especially problematic. For example, sections 2510–2522 of title 18, United States Code (the Wiretap Act), among other things, subject any person who intentionally intercepts the “contents” of electronic communications to fines, imprisonment, and/or civil liability, and sections 3121–3127 of title 18, United States Code (the Pen/Trap Statute), among other things, generally prohibit the installation or use of a device to collect “non-content” information of electronic communications. In addition, section 1030 of title 18, United States Code (the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act) prohibits unauthorized access to and use of “protected computers.” These statutes might be construed to prohibit access to or interception of the telemetry, signaling information, or other communications of UAS. Furthermore, any attempt to interfere with the flight of UAS that pose a threat to covered facilities, locations and installations or covered operations may conflict with section 32 of title 18, United States Code (the Aircraft Sabotage Act), which among other things, imposes fines and criminal penalties on anyone who “damages, destroys, disables, or wrecks any aircraft in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States.” In the event of unanticipated conflicts with other statutes, and in order to avoid criminalizing critically important activities by government officials that are consistent with the U.S. Constitution, the savings clause also refers generally to “any provision of title 18, United States Code.” Congress has previously recognized the importance of ensuring that federal criminal laws in Title 18 do not inadvertently blunt the development or use of UAS countermeasures. The National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for Fiscal Year (FY) 2017 contains two sections (Sec. 1697—codified at section 130i of title 10, U.S. Code—and Sec. 3112) authorizing the Department of Defense, and the Department of Energy, respectively, to protect certain facilities and assets from threats posed by UAS. Both sections authorize such activities “[n]otwithstanding any provision of title 18.”

...

Subsection (f) provides that no court shall have jurisdiction to hear causes or claims, including for money damages, against a federal officer, employee, agent or contractor arising from any authorized actions described in subsections (b). This provision serves to protect individuals taking authorized actions described in subsections (b) from damages claims and official-capacity claims.
You actually bring up a very valid point that honestly sort of escaped me because of me being hyper-foucused on the other areas of this draft that I don't like. I am going to discuss the legalese of this with my brother but in an earlier post where I said the state has no right to effect jurisdiction with the government based on the methods that the FAA laws are legally enforced, this seems to even make that more narrow of a stope from a jurisdiction stand point making it even worse than I thought.

Thanks for the clarification of your point.
 
You actually bring up a very valid point that honestly sort of escaped me because of me being hyper-foucused on the other areas of this draft that I don't like. I am going to discuss the legalese of this with my brother but in an earlier post where I said the state has no right to effect jurisdiction with the government based on the methods that the FAA laws are legally enforced, this seems to even make that more narrow of a stope from a jurisdiction stand point making it even worse than I thought.

Thanks for the clarification of your point.

I'll be interested to hear his opinion - let us know what you find out.
 
Again, I would recommend you not fly in restricted areas if you don't want your drone taken away. If you think they're going haul their gear out to the local park and shoot hobbyist drones out of the sky, I'd like to know what you're drinking.
In any other political climate I would agree with this logic. But the first words of the NY Times article, "The Trump Administration," make this an issue that transcends normal. The scenario of shooting hobbyist drones out of the sky is exactly what I would expect. There is no shortage of drone haters who would love to put their personal arsenal to use and those misguided haters will take this action by the chief executive as a message of empowerment to do just that. I'm not really concerned about the loss of drones. It is the activation of this dangerous element of our society that poses the greatest threat.
 
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In any other political climate I would agree with this logic. But the first words of the NY Times article, "The Trump Administration," make this an issue that transcends normal. The scenario of shooting hobbyist drones out of the sky is exactly what I would expect. There is no shortage of drone haters who would love to put their personal arsenal to use and those misguided haters will take this action by the chief executive as a message of empowerment to do just that. I'm not really concerned about the loss of drones. It is the activation of this dangerous element of our society that poses the greatest threat.

So now drones are capable of launching missiles or bombs? If they possess a dangerous to society, better banned all of it and don't sale it to the public.
 
. We are one major incident away from a public outcry to flat-out ban drones said:
.........................................

Exactly - the self-centered ones who are not mentally equipped to realize what their abuses will bring down on the rest of us, are going to get us into a LOT of problems.
 
In any other political climate I would agree with this logic. But the first words of the NY Times article, "The Trump Administration," make this an issue that transcends normal. The scenario of shooting hobbyist drones out of the sky is exactly what I would expect. There is no shortage of drone haters who would love to put their personal arsenal to use and those misguided haters will take this action by the chief executive as a message of empowerment to do just that. I'm not really concerned about the loss of drones. It is the activation of this dangerous element of our society that poses the greatest threat.
It's a good point and is not off base at all.
 
For every new regulation this administration proposes, they must eliminate two.

This does not mean they (regulations) be within or subject to the same federal agency.
 
I'm a member of the AMA. Going to send them a note to see if they intend to get involved with this. The ACLU is too busy with other human rights issues.
 
Their focus is safety, not photography.
 
There should be absolute rules and regulations regarding them but in my opinion your list of rules and regulations are a bit much for a under 400 feet RC flying device.
I believe there is absolute necessity for regulation but to an extent.

This is right on the money. We need *reasonable* rules and regulations.

On one side of the argument, we've got people that don't want to follow any rules at all. And on the other side, we've got those that think drone hobbyists must have a *complete* understanding of the NAS and everything else that a commercial pilot is required to know.

Both of those arguments are ridiculous. If I was a real estate agent wanting to take aerial photos of a home I am listing - why do I need to all of the principles of flight and how to request an enroute departure from the tower at an international airport, or what the difference between IFR and VFR flight is? What a ridiculous thing to suggest! Perhaps those children that fly kites in the park should also be required to know all that - after all, if they make a mistake, or their string breaks - their kite could come crashing down hard on an innocent family trying to have a picnic.

We need to have reasonable rules in place - and appropriate punishments for those that break them.

"Drones aren't toys!" - bull. Some of them are. WLToys? JJRC? These things are made of styrofoam and flimsy plastic and most certainly ARE toys. Should you have to be a qualified and licensed airplane pilot to play with one of these in your own backyard? Or in an empty field?

Obviously there are MANY different classes of drones - and MANY, MANY different use cases for them. The first step in creating some intelligent and reasonable rules for them are to sub-classify the drones - by capabilities, by weight, etc and then by use - under 50' altitude, over 300', VLOS, FPR use, beyond VLOS, etc...

This would be a major undertaking. It would be difficult and it would be hard to understand and enforce - so they will generalize, and they will err on the side of "perceived" safety - and it will suck, and it will be unfair.

It's sad that a country that can put a man on the moon can't put together a fair and reasonable set of rules that provide reasonable protection and allow reasonable use of our toys and tools.
 
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Their focus is safety, not photography.
Maybe you haven't been following the AMA's fight over FAA registration of hobby drones. On May 19, the FAA Registration Requirement was struck down by the DC Federal Appeals Court. The AMA was the primary party responsible for the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act that designated RC model aircraft, including multirotors, not subject to FAA authority. The court's decision stated that the registration rule is unlawful as applied to model aircraft.

Unfortunately there are several commercial operators that want strong drone regulation including Amazon, Verizon, and Intel and they will be lobbying congress to amend the FAA Modernization and Reform Act. Even DJI is a strong advocate of FAA regulation. I tend to agree with some type of sensible regulation but the FAA requirement that anything that weighs more than .55 pounds and flies must be registered is ridiculous.
 
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Maybe you haven't been following the AMA's fight over FAA registration of hobby drones. On May 19, the FAA Registration Requirement was struck down by the DC Federal Appeals Court. The AMA was the primary party responsible for the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act that designated RC model aircraft, including multirotors, not subject to FAA authority. The court's decision stated that the registration rule is unlawful as applied to model aircraft.

Unfortunately there are several commercial operators that want strong drone regulation including Amazon, Verizon, and Intel and they will be lobbying congress to amend the FAA Modernization and Reform Act. Even DJI is a strong advocate of FAA regulation. I tend to agree with some type of sensible regulation but the FAA requirement that anything that weighs more than .55 pounds and flies must be registered is ridiculous.

Registration?

The AMA is not an aerial photography organization.

My comment stands on itself.
 
Registration?
The AMA is not an aerial photography organization.
My comment stands on itself.

Maybe I'm missing something but I think the subject of this thread is additional government control of drones. Doesn't matter whether they have a camera or not.
 
Yea. My mistake. Wrong thread.
 
In any other political climate I would agree with this logic. But the first words of the NY Times article, "The Trump Administration," make this an issue that transcends normal. The scenario of shooting hobbyist drones out of the sky is exactly what I would expect. There is no shortage of drone haters who would love to put their personal arsenal to use and those misguided haters will take this action by the chief executive as a message of empowerment to do just that. I'm not really concerned about the loss of drones. It is the activation of this dangerous element of our society that poses the greatest threat.

I would agree logic is somewhat subjective these days, but this doesn't authorize random citizens to shoot down drones. The type of person to do that is not likely to be waiting for "permission". I don't think this is likely to be legislation well known by the public. It's one bullet point an ocean of laws and regulations. If we didn't pass laws out of fear of misinterpretation by fringe elements of society, I'm not sure we'd have any laws.

There is the issue of precedent, but I have hard time envisioning this morphing into something where the military is randomly shooting down drones in public places. We do have checks and balances.
 
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So if one drone is used in a terrorist act, the government should ban all drones. Using that logic if a truck or car is used in a terrorist act the government should ban all trucks or cars.
Wait, haven't trucks and cars already been used in terrorist acts? Why aren't they banned?
 
So if one drone is used in a terrorist act, the government should ban all drones. Using that logic if a truck or car is used in a terrorist act the government should ban all trucks or cars.
Wait, haven't trucks and cars already been used in terrorist acts? Why aren't they banned?

Is that a straw man argument, or are you replying to a post?
 
This is right on the money. We need *reasonable* rules and regulations.

On one side of the argument, we've got people that don't want to follow any rules at all. And on the other side, we've got those that think drone hobbyists must have a *complete* understanding of the NAS and everything else that a commercial pilot is required to know.

Both of those arguments are ridiculous. If I was a real estate agent wanting to take aerial photos of a home I am listing - why do I need to all of the principles of flight and how to request an enroute departure from the tower at an international airport, or what the difference between IFR and VFR flight is? What a ridiculous thing to suggest! Perhaps those children that fly kites in the park should also be required to know all that - after all, if they make a mistake, or their string breaks - their kite could come crashing down hard on an innocent family trying to have a picnic.

We need to have reasonable rules in place - and appropriate punishments for those that break them...

It's sad that a country that can put a man on the moon can't put together a fair and reasonable set of rules that provide reasonable protection and allow reasonable use of our toys and tools.

I agree with the thrust of this post. I am a licensed ham radio operator. The airwaves are regulated by the FCC. FCC enforcement of radio spectrum violators, e.g., out-of-band or excessive power operations, seems strict by comparison to the FAA vs. outlaw sUAS pilots. While you can buy a ham transceiver capable of illegal on-the-air operations without a ham radio license, if you use it illegally there is a good probability that you will be caught and prosecuted. Ham radio ops must pass written tests for even the most basic class of license. There are several classes of licenses each with corresponding operating privileges. Perhaps this scheme could serve as a template for sUAS regulations.
 
I agree with the thrust of this post. I am a licensed ham radio operator. The airwaves are regulated by the FCC. FCC enforcement of radio spectrum violators, e.g., out-of-band or excessive power operations, seems strict by comparison to the FAA vs. outlaw sUAS pilots. While you can buy a ham transceiver capable of illegal on-the-air operations without a ham radio license, if you use it illegally there is a good probability that you will be caught and prosecuted. Ham radio ops must pass written tests for even the most basic class of license. There are several classes of licenses each with corresponding operating privileges. Perhaps this scheme could serve as a template for sUAS regulations.

And yet as a non-commercial marine operator I can run a VHF radio with an implicit license.
 
What if model boat operators began using those frequencies?
 

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