Big Changes Coming

[Sagebrush]

What I don't understand is why Google and Amazon are working with the FAA. Did the Government hire them as consultants. I don't get it

They both want to start drone delivery services. Since they are large corporations, they have the financial ability to lobby the government.

Amazon and Google's drone delivery plans hit snag with new US regulations

SB

 

[NetDep]

Odd, Amazon does not support anonymous operations.

WOW!!

Thanks for posting that!! It is easy to see, and say, that it is Amazon's business model to KILL ANYTHING that it has an interest in so it can re-emerge in that same arena. We have seen it in all of the brick and mortar businesses it has killed only to open brick and mortar bookstores where their competitors once existed. I am not saying it's wrong, only the observation.

As far as drones - it seems Amazon along with the knee jerk fake outrage uninformed perpetually scared people that seem to occupy legislative houses and dance to the tune of the likes of Amazon and any other big money lobbyist will pass more restrictive drone legislation with absolutely no idea why.

I hope I have a couple of years to enjoy my P4...I really do love it and it's so much fun!!!

 

[gizmoking]

I can see that happening up here in Canada - we now have restrictions on the restrictions that were restricting the previous restrictions with more restrictions to come. Truly though - up here it is laughable yet, pathetic. Transport Canada is holding country wide meets to allow for input from owners, developers etc. regarding the latest regulations - no doubt all input will fall on deaf ears.

When will these regulators "get it" ---- the majority of people who purchased these units, did so for the purpose of photography and video. A quad-copter with a flying camera platform is a description
you don't hear enough of. All you ever hear is drone this and drone that - the word "drone" itself is enough to scare the hell out of em and unjustified panic sets in!

View attachment 86526​

Keep in mind, for these regulators .... "ignorance, is not always bliss" --- In the words of Benjamin Franklin "we are all born ignorant, but one must work really hard to become stupid"!

Democracy, as defined, will not ever rule with regard to flying our quads - the minority will and do rule as to the where, when and how we operate our Phantoms etc.​

As A Canadian you can submit feedback in regards to the new regulations to:
[email protected]

The proposed changes are here:
Canada Gazette – Regulations Amending the Canadian Aviation Regulations (Unmanned Aircraft Systems)

I have submitted my feedback. They keep changing their minds about drone safety. My 1.384kg drone is classed the same as a 35kg or 25kg drone. I gave them a scientific challenge: Drop a 1.384 kg bag of potatoes on their friend. Then drop a 25kg (55 pound) bag of potatoes on their friend. After the heavier bag is dropped on them they will probably have some serious injuries. I doubt they would have much if any injury from the 1.384 (3 pounds)

They say in a public information document: "don't interfere with police or first responders", but they actually put in the detailed regulation: "don't fly above or withing the perimeter where police or first responders are working" They are not smart enough or forward thinking enough to say keep 2 miles away from where police or first responders are working as these people my be using "official" drones and civilian or public drones could cause them problems.

I called the regulations stupid and pointed out how and why they are stupid.

There are no license or other requirements for e bikes in Canada. Every month, more people are hurt or killed by e bikes in one city then have been hurt (and I don't think any has been killed by a drone) than all drone incidents in the last 10 years!

I use my drone for real estate photography, and I fly safe, yet I'm still not able to get a standing (permit) to fly because they are hiring students who know noting about drones or aviation to "process" applications and make me fill out 30 page documents with useless information. I could pay some company $850 to fill it out for me, which if you think about it would be like paying for the answers for a test. I have tested out almost every situation thinkable of disconnecting the phone, controller and all aspects of RTH and have never had a crash or accident. Sure, if the internal electronics get messed up it could fly off, but I don't fly it beyond my sight or above the regulated height and if they had me come in for a 15 minute meeting I could show them my flight log history to prove I am not a risk to safety. But no, they want these 30 or more page documents describing things like how I keep and manage a maintenance discrepancy log for my little sophisticated yet still more like a toy than aircraft P4.

 

[Krampus]

The government is working with DJI, Amazon, Google and others to begin requiring GPS tracking devices on civilian drones. Amazon takes it even further. No flying except in designated "drone parks".

"Amazon does not support anonymous operations" of drones in U.S. airways, with only minor exceptions such as hobbyists at designated flying fields, Sean Cassidy, director of Safety and Regulatory Affairs told a House subcommittee on April 4. Company spokeswoman Kristen Kish declined to discuss current talks because it is participating in the FAA committee.

Police Push Tracking for Civilian Drones

I feel like this flying drones, is just to **** stressful. All I wanted to do was record my son on his ATV. Its time to simplify my life. Maybe I should buy a hot air balloon, people don't mind them.
All this is so stupid. When Amazon tries to fly their drones for delivery. Ill be sure to be on their ***, and make sure they cant leave a drone park. If start seeing amazon drones flying over, ill be sure to take them down.

 

[Pablosnaps]

Clearly there is some risk involved in having drones flying overhead, especially in urban areas. But as compared to what? The risk of someone getting hurt by a drone is insignificant compared to the risk of being struck by a vehicle on a city street. If you simply follow the rules, fly under 400 ft.,(I've never had the need to go above 200) keep your drone in line of sight, avoid flying over people, stay away from airports and landing flight paths, you'll hardly be endangering anyone. I would challenge most drone operators (of small dji variety) to claim that their biggest fear is colliding with aircraft, or even hurting someone on the ground. The biggest challenge is running afoul of regulations, or being challenged by someone while flying and facing the consequences. With the thousands of drones out there one can argue that most people are operating their craft without incident, and the regulations are overkill. No one has suggested banning cars because people drive stupidly, or under the influence, and traffic fatalities number in the thousands. For that matter, privately owned single engine aircraft aren't being banned either, and there are plenty of accidents and fatalities associated with these. And pilots don't need to apply to the FAA 90 days in advance to fly, for fun or profit.

 

[Uncle Stumpy]

too many restrictions and the drone industry will collapse - for guys like us anyway. I personally won't fly in designated areas..... what's the point? I like taking video of interesting things and flying in the same place time after time would become mind numbingly boring. And I have no interest in racing.

 

[Uncle Stumpy]

Fascinating. Millions upon millions of drones sold and flying, yet drone-induced mayhem by comparison is what percentage? Realistically?

This is again why, at times, I've taken exception to the use of the word "drone." It has a negative connotation and it doesn't matter what you are doing with it or where you are, to the naysayers, "that guy has a drone". Period.

I hope that the day some authority somewhere questions the use of my small plastic toy helicopter that I'm speaking to someone smart enough to be able to understand when I say "you know, this is really just a small plastic toy helicopter".

Once those in power to make laws realize that bicycles and tractor trailers and pedestrians and muscle cars all use the same roads, and that we've figured out a way to make that work and continue to accept the risks associated with it, maybe they'll apply the same logic to whatever direction this all goes.

Or maybe not.

I agree, I hate the word drone - I always use quadcopter. Poeple have told me that when they hear drone, they flash to an unmanned plane in Afghanistan shooting Hellfire missles at the enemy.
That can't compare one iota with what us average Joes are doing with our recreational quadcopters.

 

[gizmoking]

I agree, I hate the word drone - I always use quadcopter. Poeple have told me that when they hear drone, they flash to an unmanned plane in Afghanistan shooting Hellfire missles at the enemy.
That can't compare one iota with what us average Joes are doing with our recreational quadcopters.

Transport Canada calls them many things, UAV, UAS UA, Model Aircraft, Drone. Please don't give them any more ideas and have them interject quadcopter into the mix! lol

 

[mark99]

They are flying cameras that scare the **** out of authority and governments.
They want them chained and unable to film or photograph things they want to stay hidden.

Lies and deception are very important to governments and these flying cameras can fk it all right up for them.
They will be chained, the fools that are eager to comply will get their wish and authority will win and it will keep its lies hidden.

 

[Uncle Stumpy]

They are flying cameras that scare the **** out of authority and governments.
They want them chained and unable to film or photograph things they want to stay hidden.

Lies and deception are very important to governments and these flying cameras can fk it all right up for them.
They will be chained, the fools that are eager to comply will get their wish and authority will win and it will keep its lies hidden.

Exactly!!!

 

[The Roach]

Yet one can put a 1/4 scale B1 in the air and no one bats an eye. Join the AMA, they are fighting to protect the rights of ALL RC flyers. (and you get insurance too) And what about all the hobbyists? I can build a drone myself that can lift 15 pounds with no flight restrictions. Better buy up your FCs now while you can still get 'em. I stopped buying DJI due to the overbearing control of the hardware. For $1500 and more, I expect to fly anytime. I'd be good with flight restrictions on the major airports, military installations and what not but this and DJI in particular is going way to far. I was even OK having to register my aircraft before it was shot down (in court, not the aircraft!). What the hell happened to people being held responsible for their actions rather than killing it for everyone. GeeWhizz.

 

[Bob62]

They must have good battery's

 

[Uncle Stumpy]

Yet one can put a 1/4 scale B1 in the air and no one bats an eye. Join the AMA, they are fighting to protect the rights of ALL RC flyers. (and you get insurance too) And what about all the hobbyists? I can build a drone myself that can lift 15 pounds with no flight restrictions. Better buy up your FCs now while you can still get 'em. I stopped buying DJI due to the overbearing control of the hardware. For $1500 and more, I expect to fly anytime. I'd be good with flight restrictions on the major airports, military installations and what not but this and DJI in particular is going way to far. I was even OK having to register my aircraft before it was shot down (in court, not the aircraft!). What the hell happened to people being held responsible for their actions rather than killing it for everyone. GeeWhizz.

I did join the AMA, though I am not too sure how much punch they will be able to have against the gov agencies.
And you are right, I would rather the authorities fry some jerks *** rather than make life miserable for the average recreational drone pilot
It's like the pain medications my wife and I have to take....... the gov is cracking down on the amount of pain meds that Drs can prescribe for the average patient all because lots of people sell theirs on the street. Why do my wife and I have to suffer because these people are aholes?

It's the same gov. thinking that is messing it up for us good guys because it is alot easier than going after the bad guys.

Roach, what are FC's?

 

[The Roach]

I did join the AMA, though I am not too sure how much punch they will be able to have against the gov agencies.
And you are right, I would rather the authorities fry some jerks *** rather than make life miserable for the average recreational drone pilot
It's like the pain medications my wife and I have to take....... the gov is cracking down on the amount of pain meds that Drs can prescribe for the average patient all because lots of people sell theirs on the street. Why do my wife and I have to suffer because these people are aholes?

It's the same gov. thinking that is messing it up for us good guys because it is alot easier than going after the bad guys.

Roach, what are FC's?

Flight Controllers.

 

[embayweather]

This is also being considered here in Europe in proposals already published. Along with all drones able a certain wait to be geofenced. This will apply not just to DJI but every manufacturer. Big changes are coming indeed.

 

[Raptorman0909]

They are flying cameras that scare the **** out of authority and governments.
They want them chained and unable to film or photograph things they want to stay hidden.

Lies and deception are very important to governments and these flying cameras can fk it all right up for them.
They will be chained, the fools that are eager to comply will get their wish and authority will win and it will keep its lies hidden.

Actually it's many businesses that want drones killed off as they don't want Greenpeace or anyone else looking at them dumping crap in rivers etc. And, THEY have the money and influence to get what they want passed. The government does what there owners want and the owners aren't us.


Brian

 

[Missle]

Odd, Amazon does not support anonymous operations.

Looks like Prime wants the air space to themselves.

 

[anotherlab]

Looks like Prime wants the air space to themselves.

Anonymous is not the same as unmanned.

 

[Wolfiesden]

What I don't understand is why Google and Amazon and DJI are working with the FAA. Did the Government hire them as consultants. I don't get it

Because they want to squelch us menials so that they can confiscate our airspace for their drone delivery systems. They want us hemmed into confined spaces in specific areas and out of the 0-400' zone freely flying around so that they can take that zone over for their delivery systems and those delivery systems don't have to deal with all of the hazards of other drones.

Right now, all these "anonymous" drones (meaning all of us) can, will and do interfere with their automated drone delivery plans. They want to eliminate that threat to to their profits. And if you are under the delusion that its anything but that and that they are doing this in the public good...well... I got some waterfront property just east of Miami I would like to sell you. Great fishing. Fantastic view too.

And if you are thinking this is tinfoil hat stuff. Better grab your suspenders and give em a tug. Its about to get real...
https://www.commerce.senate.gov/pub...AE2DDF838BA2C11FF06F00CF.highlights---faa.pdf

S.1405 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Federal Aviation Administration Reauthorization Act of 2017

Here are some highlights of whats on that freight train coming at you:

DRONE SAFETY FEATURES – Directs federal agencies to convene industry stakeholders to develop consensus standards for safety features to be built into drones to protect everyone who uses the national airspace and the public.

PRIVACY PROTECTIONS – Affirms that drone operations should respect personal privacy, consistent with federal, state, and local law; advances drone identification standards to create operator accountability; and promotes adoption of written privacy policies. Clarifies Federal Trade Commission authority to enforce violations of privacy policies by commercial operators.

DRONE REGISTRATION – Provides FAA authority to require registration of small drones.

ONLINE SAFETY TEST – Promotes safety by requiring all drone users to pass an FAA - approved online aeronautical safety test before flying. This ensures users understand the national airspace system and avoid manned aircraft. Operators of drones weighing less than 0.55 pounds could be exempted from the testing requirement.

FEDERAL & LOCAL RESPONSIBILITIES – Directs GAO to study the responsibilities of federal, state, and local governments in regulating drones
.
DRONE PACKAGE DELIVERY – Requires DOT to establish a delivery air carrier certificate that would allow for package deliveries by drones.

MICRO DRONE RULES – Directs the FAA to establish operating rules specific to “micro” drones, which weigh 4.4 lbs. or less.

Thats right. Registration is back. Safety tests are coming. More rules and regs allowed by local and state governments, and even more rules for the tiny drones. So that means more allowed agencies to restrict drones, more hoops you will have to jump through to fly. Excited yet? "Your" flyable airspace is about the a hell of a lot smaller really soon. If you thought the NFZs were bad before, just wait.

So if you thought that the revocation of the registration was the end, no my friend, that was just the beginning shot. The FAA is about to get everything they had before and far more and they are going to have congress' approval this time.

And the first bullet point in the quote above answers your question with one reason Amazon and Google are there. They were asked to be there and their own self interest is the second reason.

So, here are my predictions for the future here...

1. Registration will be, again, required and it will be more restrictive than before, likely every drone will be required to carry a registration, not just the operator. So those who own multiple drones, will have to register each one. Yes there will be a fee.
   
2. Registration will require a safety test exam.
3. Flight over private property will be disallowed by default unless permission is gained. So taking off from your own yard, will require you to legally fly around any other private property to get to your destination.
   
4. Reduced legal flying areas as more laws by city, county, and state authorities are enacted and allowed under new rules. The old "The FAA is the only one who controls the sky" is coming to an end.
   
5. Increased criminal penalties for failure to comply with regulations. "I'll fly where I please" is gonna get real expensive real fast.
   
6. New drone "carrier" classification will carve out an altitude range (guessing 300-400') and this new altitude zone will be a restricted altitude for hobby flights because now you would interfere with the new class of delivery drones. (This is why Amazon is in bed with the FAA right now).
7. Build-your-own drones have always been an option. However they are going to still have to be certified, registered and be flown under the same restrictions as commercially purchased drones.

Drones are not in the bill of rights or the constitution (speaking from a USA point of view here). Its about to get very very messy before this all gets sorted out. Whats coming is basically you got no rights to fly a drone until the government says you do. I don't like it any more than you do but the writing is on the wall.

 

[jdharrin]

The FAA's under a lot of pressure to make things happen. The problem is, they can't make everybody happy. Basically there's at least six groups they need to worry about.

1. The big cheese - Congress. No matter what you do, it's the group you can never satisfy.
2. Then you have the big money companies (Google, Amazon, Pizza conglomerates, etc.) who want the airspace below 400 feet to be for their exclusive use.
3. The hobbyist crowd that really doesn't have an effective voice as of yet - AMA National wants to take on this responsibility and thus far, has been given that moniker by the FAA even though the local AMA affiliates want nothing to do with drones.
4. The quasi professionals (Part 107 pilots) who want a slice of the economic pie. This group has the largest growth potential but who's representing them? DJI and the other drone manufacturers? Possibly as long as it doesn't go against what the Federal government wants.
5. The media, airport, police and fire department groups, that want hobbyists to stay away while they go about using the same technology for their own particular use.
6. And the general public who doesn't understand what drones are and just knows all drones are spying on them and stealing their privacy.

So if you were in charge - do you think you could satisfy all these groups! The FAA leadership is scared sh!tless. NASA Aeronautics, working in close coordination with the FAA, is working with more than 200 commercial, academic and Federal partners to develop a UAS traffic management (UTM) system for drones and is making steady progress that will hopefully be handed over to the FAA in the 2020 time-frame. Of course, the commercial company, AirMap, is trying to be the "go to" company for drone notification purposes. You enter a few quick taps into their cellphone app and they relay that data to affected airports. They're now trying to get more and more airports to accept their drone notifications. Unfortunately, Google and Amazon won't be satisfied unless they own the "400 foot and lower" spectrum of space. Hobbyists? Banish them to drone parks like the RC and small helicopter pilots are right now.

This is a budding industry with huge potential. Big money usually wins these arguments, but time will tell. In the meantime, it helps when all these groups can remain civil and keep an open mind...