Well, prores uses lossy compression, however all frames are stored independently which makes the format great for editing.
The amount of loss and file size is controlled by the quality options during transcoding.
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The amount of loss and file size is controlled by the quality options during transcoding.
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I did a 4k@60fps mp4 video yesterday with h.264 encoding, it works well even on my old rig (intel quad core with intel hd graphics). My home pc with i7 and gtx680 plays it with any player as intended, lagfree smooth video feed. Used handbrake to make it 1080p and it plays just everywhere. So my problem was h.265 encoding
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Is it necessary or beneficial to transcode H.264 or H.265 files from the P4P into ProRes if the editing and rendering will be done in PP CC on a Windows machine, as opposed to importing them directly into PP CC without transcoding into ProRes? If so, what is the benefit, if there is a loss of information during the transcoding? What is the benefit of all frames being stored independently v. the original files? How is that different than how all frames are stored in H.264 or H.265 format?
Do not transcode unless you have a need to (if you have problems during editing or importing the files)
Prores will make it easier to handle multiple video-tracks, transitions etc as it is much less cpu intensive as compared to h264/h265.
GadgetGuy
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That helps. Can you clarify how H.264 and H.265 store frames differently than ProRes? I'm still not clear what distinction you are making in how the three different file formats store and deal with individual frames. What is the minimum loss in quality in transcoding to ProRes for easier editing?
This is now getting very technical; you can have a look here and continue from there (google is your friend)
What Is HEVC (H.265)? - Streaming Media Magazine
Anything new is going to be a challenge for most people! I've been looking after Macs, professionally, for 30 years but have scant knowledge of video editing. Qualifying for CAA approval, PfCO, in the UK I thought was going to be seriously challenging, but that's easy compared with learning to use Final Cut Pro!
I've been shooting 4K video with my P4P and have spent a few hours doing the wrong things, but sometimes you learn more from that than doing it right first time.
I'll get there in the end with a little help from some of my customers and friends, although it may be simpler in the early days to get enrolled in a course at the local college
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I think you are confusing unmounted raw files (dng)
Prores does not store frames independently, its just one big file, like any other wrappers, Prores also have various versions with different grades of compression.
Prores 4444 and Prores 4444 XQ are ideal for the exchange of motion graphics media because they are virtually lossless.
According to the official spec:
- I-frame–only (intraframe) encoding: Ensures consistent quality in every frame, with no artifacts from complex motion, and speeds up editing.
Note the i-frames, are of course physically stored inside the same file.
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Yes, thats just a general quality statement, it doesnt store every frame independently, or maybe you mean treated independently? All formats are encoded this way, in different grades of quality, otherwise material would look strange when it comes out in the other end
If i misunderstood what you meant, you must clarify what you mean by all frames are stored independently...
Video compression picture types - WikipediaYes, thats just a general quality statement, it doesnt store every frame independently, or maybe you mean treated independently? All formats are encoded this way, in different grades of quality, otherwise material would look strange when it comes out in the other end
If i misunderstood what you meant, you must clarify what you mean by all frames are stored independently...
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Tomas, you have a funny way of debating things sometimes, when someone asks for a specific answer, you just keep repeating things that aren relevant to the questions asked.
Is it a way to try and hide the fact that your knowledge ends there, since links and "google is your friend" kind of replies is the only thing you can provide us with?
Nobody thinks anyone's a fool cause they dont know things, but it gets more embarrassing if you keep pretending you do, not to mention the waste of time for everyone reading and replying to never ending discussions and nitpickings.
This is just my observations of the way you often participate in here, im not trying to offend you, just telling you that this sometimes can be very exhausting
This is overly technical. A file is a container. It can contain files (zip) or pictures (prores).Tomas, you have a funny way of debating things sometimes, when someone asks for a specific answer, you just keep repeating things that aren relevant to the questions asked.
Is it a way to try and hide the fact that your knowledge ends there, since links and "google is your friend" kind of replies is the only thing you can provide us with?
Nobody thinks anyone's a fool cause they dont know things, but it gets more embarrassing if you keep pretending you do, not to mention the waste of time for everyone reading and replying to never ending discussions and nitpickings.
This is just my observations of the way you often participate in here, im not trying to offend you, just telling you that this sometimes can be very exhausting
The important information I originally gave is that the pictures (i frames) inside the file (prores) are independent.
I do not understand the problem here.
Thanks for your advice but im fully aware of the drone code, not aware of any restrictions regarding night flying though. If you watched all my videos in my channel, you would see one with the police in it. Those police actually stopped and spoke to me for about half an hour, even watched me flying. They didnt say I couldnt do what I was doing. I welcome anyone to knock on my door. Where is the proof I was flying the drone? Again, thanks for your 'advice' however my thread is about videos, not flying regulations.
Thank you everyone else for your input in regards to videos, editing, etc Im going to do some experimenting with your suggestions and see what works for me.
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The only thing i replied to was this, i quote "all frames are stored independently which makes the format great for editing." That is incorrect, all frames is stored as one large file.
However, I also pointed out in my post #70:
"maybe you mean treated independently?"
You just responded with a link...
If you are able to speak, rather than just copy/paste links all the time, it would be much easier to communicate with you.
Have a nice evening!
Raw video from a Phantom? I wish
My friend, this is compressed to H264/65, only high end video cams records raw internally.
On the other hand, the codec Dji uses is a pia to use, its even harder to run than a raw prores file with 4 times higher bitrates.
Do as suggested, convert to prores and then start to work with your files, it will be butter smooth, even if the files gets ten times larger.
The way i see it, its no other alternatives from these heavy 4k files coming off this camera.
I got a dedicated video rendering machine myself, even that struggles with these files coming straight off the card.
I agree about the codec DJI uses, if I play Panasonic 100mbs, 4K video files on my fast windows computer using Edius 8 Pro no problem. Even DJI 4K, 100mbs, 25 fps is ok but the new 4K, 100mbs, 50fps cause slight jerkiness on play back. VLC cant handle it either, funnily the windows 10 media player plays it smooth as does my Samsung 4K TV. There are some unanswered problems here, why the diversity of playback quality?
Prores is not lossless it is lossy.
Apple ProRes - Wikipedia
The purpose of many of these converters is to make the files smaller and more manageable particularly at 4K and above. When working within PP for example it is sometimes desirable to use proxy files while editing but then attach the full sized original files when doing a final render. If your PC is a bit older or not particularly powerful then editing with full sized 4K files is a bear and using smaller proxies is highly recommended. OTH, if you have a higher end PC that can handle full sized files reasonably well then using proxies is a wasted step.
So, I would recommend retaining your original files for storage and if you need to use proxies then go ahead and make a duplicate set of files that are smaller and easier to manage BUT keep the originals. I'll repeat -- prores files are NOT higher quality than your originals.
Brian
GadgetGuy
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Yes, that statement is most confusing.Yes, thats just a general quality statement, it doesnt store every frame independently, or maybe you mean treated independently? All formats are encoded this way, in different grades of quality, otherwise material would look strange when it comes out in the other end
If i misunderstood what you meant, you must clarify what you mean by all frames are stored independently...
I can't seem to get a straight answer from him, either.
Most people are able to click on a link and actually read the information provided. That might not be for all it seems.Yes, that statement is most confusing.
I can't seem to get a straight answer from him, either.
To summarize, i have said:
* Note the i-frames, are of course physically stored inside the same file.
I have referred to a very good explanation of h264 and h265, which also is a starting point for further research:
What Is HEVC (H.265)? - Streaming Media Magazine
I have referred to the picture types used in all encoding formats, of which exclusively iframes are found in prores:
Video compression picture types - Wikipedia
This is documented here:
Final Cut Pro 7 Professional Formats and Workflows
I do try to be helpful, but I must say the effort is really not met with much appreciation.
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Video coding and compression is a very complex topic and if you really want to understand it you're probably not going to get much satisfaction from a forum thread, perhaps better to research for tutorials on the Internet. There are some good ones out there but be prepared for some pretty mind-numbing stuff, I constantly find myself asking 'how did they think of this?'
The core things to know with regard to editing and intermediate files is if you have a computer that can handle the native files then you can edit them directly (although editing high-bitrate H.265 is going to require a pretty capable machine), and if not you can convert to an intermediate file such as ProRes, edit, and then output to the final format of your choice. Note that even though the high-quality ProRes 422 variants are technically lossy any degradation will be more theoretical than viewable and isn't really worth worrying about for the kind of work we're going to be doing with our P4Ps. The main downside to intermediate files is that they tend to be very large, but what the hey, storage is cheap.
The core things to know with regard to editing and intermediate files is if you have a computer that can handle the native files then you can edit them directly (although editing high-bitrate H.265 is going to require a pretty capable machine), and if not you can convert to an intermediate file such as ProRes, edit, and then output to the final format of your choice. Note that even though the high-quality ProRes 422 variants are technically lossy any degradation will be more theoretical than viewable and isn't really worth worrying about for the kind of work we're going to be doing with our P4Ps. The main downside to intermediate files is that they tend to be very large, but what the hey, storage is cheap.
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