US Army calls for ban on DJI equipment over security concerns

[P4PCommander]

Again what kind of issue a DJI drone possess that can affect computers, networks and data from unauthorized access? Because as far as I concerned, my phantom 3 standard does not connect to the internet, only the remote control to download firmware.

Oh Geeeeeeeeeeeze REALLY! there is always a Danger from anyone that has to Connect to your Computer!! That's like giving DJI the Combination to your Firearms Lock Box,,,,If they were selling those....

 

[P4PCommander]

That's Fine S Korea can duplicate anything.....DJI has lied to, to many of us.

 

[P4PCommander]

Yes ..... but
This frequently gets over-exaggerated and shouldn't be a concern for civilian fliers and would be a fairly minor concern for the military.
Your Phantom and its controller transmit flight information and FPS video to each other.
They don't have the power or ability to transmit anything back to China.
What they do transmit is encoded and only able to be intercepted by a very sophisticated hacker who just happens to be nearby and aware that you are flying at the time.
If you choose to upload flight data at a later time to DJI, that's another matter.
That contains flight info and again doesn't give away many secrets.
If someone analysed your flight data the most sensitive info they might gain is that you've flown at the local park a couple of times on Saturday afternoons, how far/fast and for how long.
This is nothing compared to what info your credit card and mobile phone are giving out every day or what people readily disclose on Facebook.

As Floatin said above "But the article I read suggested the problem was the ability to easily take control of DJI drones while in flight, not necessarily Chinese information gathering."
That's much more likely to be a concern for the military.

You must not have ever had to send your Drone in for repair or an up date! DJI REQUIRES YOUR FLIGHT DATA OR YOUR WARRANTY IS NULL AND VOID!!

 

[Meta4]

You must not have ever had to send your Drone in for repair or an up date! DJI REQUIRES YOUR FLIGHT DATA OR YOUR WARRANTY IS NULL AND VOID!!

???
I'm not sure what your point is?
I mentioned that DJI don't have your flight data unless you choose to upload it.
And I can't see any issue with DJI requiring flight data to assess warranty issues.
How else can they tell what the problem is and what may have caused it?
If DJI are using warranty claim flight data for spying ..... that's the weirdest way to collect data I can imagine.

 

[P4PCommander]

Drones are considered flying toys, and most of the toys you buy today are made in China. So that's why they can sell it in the US. About the privacy issue, there is really nothing important what the Chinese are getting from the drones.

LOL, Yeah and that's why the FAA has jumped all over these Toy's because they can't harm anything or anyone.....Did you Vote for Hillary?

 

[P4PCommander]

The army should ban 'cell phones' if they are really worried about being hacked. There are troops in Afghanistan posting selfies, and lets not forget ALL Apple phones are made in China Plus the we also have the 'commander and chief' in the USA who won't get off his phone and twitter. Seriously, worry about the Russians lol

You can't take a Cell Phone where a Drone can go.....

 

[Meta4]

LOL, Yeah and that's why the FAA has jumped all over these Toy's because they can't harm anything or anyone.....Did you Vote for Hillary?

Whether someone voted for any candidate is irrelevant but the way you think it is is an issue.
Take some time to read our Community Guidelines:
Community Guidelines

 

[anotherlab]

I just don't understand the comments about DJI being under the control of the Chinese government Can someone making that argument describe exactly how the government is controlling DJI?

 

[macoman]

I just don't understand the comments about DJI being under the control of the Chinese government Can someone making that argument describe exactly how the government is controlling DJI?

I don't think that is controlling DJI business but may have some kind of influence. Maybe the CEO is pro government and will do anything they ask for. I really don't understand very well the way business is done there but the communism in China has changed a lot. I can't imagine in a communist country be the CEO of DJI with billions in my bank account. Someone with more knowledge of the material can give you a more detailed information.

 

[Tim Dawes]

Whenever I have installed DJI go I get a warning from Norton that the site is not safe
because it has access to personal data that can potentially be misused. I guess with many apps such is the case but I wonder if this might be one reason the military is being cautious?

 

[Meta4]

I really don't understand very well the way business is done there but the communism in China has changed a lot. I can't imagine in a communist country be the CEO of DJI with billions in my bank account. Someone with more knowledge of the material can give you a more detailed information.

China's nothing like some posters imagine.
This might help understanding how things have changed in China
China Rich List

Forbes Magazine China Rich List for 2015 shows 371 billionaires (Frank Wang of DJI is at #48
To compare, the USA had 540 in 2016.

 

[anotherlab]

I don't think that is controlling DJI business but may have some kind of influence. Maybe the CEO is pro government and will do anything they ask for. I really don't understand very well the way business is done there but the communism in China has changed a lot. I can't imagine in a communist country be the CEO of DJI with billions in my bank account. Someone with more knowledge of the material can give you a more detailed information.

That's what I thought. People are posting comments on here about the supposed Chinese government control of DJI without any real information to back it up. The Peoples Republic of a billion people all working for the state is an a faded memory. Private ownership and capitalism have been the norm there for the last 30+ years. Do people there have less freedom than in the US? Absolutely, it's still a one party totalitarian regime.

 

[N017RW]

The thread has gone off-track but that's the norm here and I have been guilty a time or two.
The DODs concern is not specified as the Chinese Govt. per se but rather the vulnerability of DJI hw/sw/fw. Thus you could have anyone,3rd-4th parties, etc. exploiting them and using them strategically or tactically against our forces.

 

[68charger440]

The thread has gone off-track but that's the norm here and I have been guilty a time or two.
The DODs concern is not specified as the Chinese Govt. per se but rather the vulnerability of DJI hw/sw/fw. Thus you could have anyone,3rd-4th parties, etc. exploiting them and using them strategically or tactically against our forces.

When you do business in China you are very tightly under the thumb of the Govt, and the Govt is very much aware of cyber theft and intellectual property violations. They not only don't stop it they silently encourage it for Chinese companies while blocking American companies.
Just look at Google as an example. One of the largest companies in the world had to just give up on doing business in China... and that is not a faded memory, it it a current fact. So while 3rd and 4th parties are a problem also, the government is at least as dangerous and is also forcing it's Chinese companies to help in its nefarious cyber activities. The concerns are well founded. The drone is connected to your phone which puts everything on those devices is up for grabs, and with the phone connected to the Internet it all can be transmitted back to China under the cover of a flight log.
The bottom line is that none of any country's national security computer controlled systems should be reliant on manufactured goods from anywhere but their own country if possible. We here in the U. S. have spied on our allies (think Angela Merkel in Germany) and enemies alike and anyone who thinks that the Chinese and Russians are not doing everything they can to steal our secrets as well is living in a fools paradise.

 

[N017RW]

I agree. Voiced similar concerns a few pages back.

 

[kirk2579]

Foreign threats are real and we need to be vigilant, it's just that I don't think it's the toy drones' we should be worried about. We have to link to the net for the information to transfer, if you have a cell or a computer you (me) are feeding the monster with every minute spent on the net.

these drones are being used by the military ,
for military use on military property
and all that data if transmitted to dji servers...

did it occur that some of those missions and property may be "secure" areas etc..

this is a very valid and legit concern

 

[sar104]

these drones are being used by the military ,
for military use on military property
and all that data if transmitted to dji servers...

did it occur that some of those missions and property may be "secure" areas etc..

this is a very valid and legit concern

It depends on what you mean by "secure" - no DJI equipment has ever been approved to stream or record images or video that may reveal classified information, which is not to say that could not have happened inadvertently.

 

[Chief Joe]

Yes ..... but
This frequently gets over-exaggerated and shouldn't be a concern for civilian fliers and would be a fairly minor concern for the military.
Your Phantom and its controller transmit flight information and FPS video to each other.
They don't have the power or ability to transmit anything back to China.
What they do transmit is encoded and only able to be intercepted by a very sophisticated hacker who just happens to be nearby and aware that you are flying at the time.
If you choose to upload flight data at a later time to DJI, that's another matter.
That contains flight info and again doesn't give away many secrets.
If someone analysed your flight data the most sensitive info they might gain is that you've flown at the local park a couple of times on Saturday afternoons, how far/fast and for how long.
This is nothing compared to what info your credit card and mobile phone are giving out every day or what people readily disclose on Facebook.

As Floatin said above "But the article I read suggested the problem was the ability to easily take control of DJI drones while in flight, not necessarily Chinese information gathering."
That's much more likely to be a concern for the military.

The flight info is searchable data. If uploaded to somebody's server, it can be searched - including GPS data. So, if the coordinates are someplace someone wants to know about (airports, military bases, infrastructure, etc.) then you know which videos (also uploaded and crossed referenced) to pull up and view. If only 1 in 1000 produce any intelligence someone didn't already know it could be worth all the trouble. That is what intell gathering is all about - one small piece at a time. This is the big problem. Taking control is mostly only useful if the drone is in the right place at exactly the right time for a specific purpose. Most hobbyists and part 107 pilots won't be ferrying dangerous materials on their flights. Personal info and compromising video or photos are not likely, but accidental or incidental info/details in the flights are far more likely. We have far too many folks out where it is questionable to be (as opposed to down right wrong to be) taking video and photos with unintended (or intended but not for intel gathering purposes) details of infrastructure, military sites, ports, air ports, and the like. Being able to review those specific videos/pics is a cheap way to gather intel data. Agents used to mingle with tourists while taking pictures on their vacations all the time. Remember the picture taking bans right after 911? This has potential to be a problem. DJI drones have been used by the military for years in Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan. I suspect no sensitive data has been uploaded. The changes made by DJI to store data have been recent and the military doesn't upgrade firmware without testing it.

 

[Nomesurveyor]

This is going to be a big story, both the US Army and Navy have expressed concerns,

US Army calls for units to discontinue use of DJI equipment. - sUAS News - The Business of Drones

Yep! This reinforces my suspicions that tactical information can/is being gathered by China military using this firmware "upgrade" ploy? Scary stuff......BTW: still being "throttled" to my "leashed area".....I'm contacting EBAY for a refund.

 

[Nomesurveyor]

R

Perhaps commercial clients will demand non Chinese equipment is used moving forward.... (difficult to do)

Replacing with an AUTEL unit. The orange color will be easier to see BEYOND 50 METERS!!!! which is where my phantom can only fly now....this is sucking HARD