Uncontrolled descent... two crashes

[lightingbryan]

Wow! I posted this same question and didn't get much of a response! I am glad I ran into this!
I'm am on 3.02 and have suffered the same issue! But only once so far. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15643

I am seeing the battery not authentic error but it only pops up quickly! Can you guys post links to that issue? This site has a terrible search function as it ALWAYS returns more search results than the site settings can handle.

Help! Thanks!

 

[drjay32]

Wow! I posted this same question and didn't get much of a response! I am glad I ran into this!
I'm am on 3.02 and have suffered the same issue! But only once so far. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15643

I am seeing the battery not authentic error but it only pops up quickly! Can you guys post links to that issue? This site has a terrible search function as it ALWAYS returns more search results than the site settings can handle.

Help! Thanks!

Hey lightingbryan
Do you have a RP Gimbal installed, or are you running stock configuration?

I rolled my firmware back to 1.08 and will re-test today.

-Jason

 

[lightingbryan]

Wow! I posted this same question and didn't get much of a response! I am glad I ran into this!
I'm am on 3.02 and have suffered the same issue! But only once so far. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15643

I am seeing the battery not authentic error but it only pops up quickly! Can you guys post links to that issue? This site has a terrible search function as it ALWAYS returns more search results than the site settings can handle.

Help! Thanks!

Hey lightingbryan
Do you have a RP Gimbal installed, or are you running stock configuration?

I rolled my firmware back to 1.08 and will re-test today.

-Jason

Not 100% sure what RP is but my setup is in my signature below VVV

 

[flyNfrank]

Wow...I got to think this has been an error in process of upgrade, or something. Does this happen at any altitude?

AS I sit here and think of possible reasons, the 1st thing that comes to mind would be an issue with the radio controller. Like in partial naza mode.

I know a number of new pilots have been making an important mistake when upgrading firmware. After buying their p2v they 1st make the worst mistake of any and that is to not read the manual before doing anything whatsoever. Watch what happens in the media when a copter falls from the sky at any altitude on someones head in a public setting. Anyway, the pilots mentioned are not power cycling the loaded firmware. They install the 1st update and should power cycle before add the next firmware version.

I may have missed it, but I read through your thread and I don't remember reading where you mentioned calibrating your controller. That is real important process , especially in working with the firmware updates. If that didn't work, I would look into resetting everything to be factory default as possible.

Btw, have you had the chance to familiarize yourself with the controller switch settings?

 

[lightingbryan]

Wow...I got to think this has been an error in process of upgrade, or something. Does this happen at any altitude?

AS I sit here and think of possible reasons, the 1st thing that comes to mind would be an issue with the radio controller. Like in partial naza mode.

I know a number of new pilots have been making an important mistake when upgrading firmware. After buying their p2v they 1st make the worst mistake of any and that is to not read the manual before doing anything whatsoever. Watch what happens in the media when a copter falls from the sky at any altitude on someones head in a public setting. Anyway, the pilots mentioned are not power cycling the loaded firmware. They install the 1st update and should power cycle before add the next firmware version.

I may have missed it, but I read through your thread and I don't remember reading where you mentioned calibrating your controller. That is real important process , especially in working with the firmware updates. If that didn't work, I would look into resetting everything to be factory default as possible.

Btw, have you had the chance to familiarize yourself with the controller switch settings?

Everything you suggested has been done. This is not my rodeo. So I assure you its not user error. How could it be when we are throttling it at 100% and it decends anyway. This seems to be software issues. Maybe it only presents itself under certain conditions. What I find most interesting is that I was at the same height and distance even the nose pointed towards me. Seems to much of a coincidence.

 

[sar104]

Everything you suggested has been done. This is not my rodeo. So I assure you its not user error. How could it be when we are throttling it at 100% and it decends anyway. This seems to be software issues. Maybe it only presents itself under certain conditions. What I find most interesting is that I was at the same height and distance even the nose pointed towards me. Seems to much of a coincidence.

You could be right, but I would strongly advise not following those lines of thinking if you want to get to the bottom of this. Firstly, it might not be direct user error, in terms of the control inputs at the time of the incident, but that doesn't rule out other earlier causal events. Secondly, don't pull the "no coincidence" card and go conflating correlation and causation, especially with a very small number of data points. That is a classic recipe for looking in entirely the wrong direction.

 

[lightingbryan]

Everything you suggested has been done. This is not my rodeo. So I assure you its not user error. How could it be when we are throttling it at 100% and it decends anyway. This seems to be software issues. Maybe it only presents itself under certain conditions. What I find most interesting is that I was at the same height and distance even the nose pointed towards me. Seems to much of a coincidence.

You could be right, but I would strongly advise not following those lines of thinking if you want to get to the bottom of this. Firstly, it might not be direct user error, in terms of the control inputs at the time of the incident, but that doesn't rule out other earlier causal events. Secondly, don't pull the "no coincidence" card and go conflating correlation and causation, especially with a very small number of data points. That is a classic recipe for looking in entirely the wrong direction.

I think the biggest data point would be the battery error that pops up for a half second on assistant.

 

[sar104]

Everything you suggested has been done. This is not my rodeo. So I assure you its not user error. How could it be when we are throttling it at 100% and it decends anyway. This seems to be software issues. Maybe it only presents itself under certain conditions. What I find most interesting is that I was at the same height and distance even the nose pointed towards me. Seems to much of a coincidence.

You could be right, but I would strongly advise not following those lines of thinking if you want to get to the bottom of this. Firstly, it might not be direct user error, in terms of the control inputs at the time of the incident, but that doesn't rule out other earlier causal events. Secondly, don't pull the "no coincidence" card and go conflating correlation and causation, especially with a very small number of data points. That is a classic recipe for looking in entirely the wrong direction.

I think the biggest data point would be the battery error that pops up for a half second on assistant.

That certainly is a possibility. Is there any documentation on the response of the FC to a battery error in flight? I don't recall seeing that addressed anywhere, other than that it does not simply shut down.

 

[drjay32]

By "RP" I meant Rotorpixel Gimbal. I installed mine the same day the FW upgraded to 3.02.

Let me make a few things clear to the RTFM crowd:

1) I've RTFM
2) I've been flying my P2V since December with nary an issue in-flight. Tip-over on landing due to operator error? Sure. But never an in-flight uncontrolled descent.
3) During the last incident I switched to Atti mode and still no control
4) Electrical power was not lost, as the video continued to record and WiFi was maintained.

Lightingbryan- I've only seen the brief "battery not supported" message in the Assistant software twice- once when doing FW upgrade to the central board (this is normal), and also when I swap out a new battery when running the assistant software. All my battery cells are nominal, and I've never received a "low battery" message while in flight (except for when the battery was low), and never anything that triggered Failsafe mode.

The orientation you mentioned is odd... each time I've had this descent problem, the P2V was pointed towards me, or nearly towards me. But that could simply be coincidence.

It's as though something triggers the motors to idle, followed by complete loss of left stick input. Usually I can hear the motors rev up when giving it full throttle. In these THREE instances there was no left stick input received.

 

[lightingbryan]

By "RP" I meant Rotorpixel Gimbal. I installed mine the same day the FW upgraded to 3.02.

Let me make a few things clear to the RTFM crowd:

1) I've RTFM
2) I've been flying my P2V since December with nary an issue in-flight. Tip-over on landing due to operator error? Sure. But never an in-flight uncontrolled descent.
3) During the last incident I switched to Atti mode and still no control
4) Electrical power was not lost, as the video continued to record and WiFi was maintained.

Lightingbryan- I've only seen the brief "battery not supported" message in the Assistant software twice- once when doing FW upgrade to the central board (this is normal), and also when I swap out a new battery when running the assistant software. All my battery cells are nominal, and I've never received a "low battery" message while in flight (except for when the battery was low), and never anything that triggered Failsafe mode.

The orientation you mentioned is odd... each time I've had this descent problem, the P2V was pointed towards me, or nearly towards me. But that could simply be coincidence.

It's as though something triggers the motors to idle, followed by complete loss of left stick input. Usually I can hear the motors rev up when giving it full throttle. In these THREE instances there was no left stick input received.

Seems we are definitely having the same issue. Except I have a different Gimbal and running 3.02

 

[drjay32]

Tested with FW 1.08... no issues so far

Ok, I managed to roll back to FW 1.08 (pain in the butt for a Mac user as I have to rely on Assistant 1.08 for Windows)

Took Hobbes back to the soccer field and had three solid runs across two different batteries. Ran the first battery to 49% and then swapped out to a second battery. I did normal maneuvers up to about 120' altitude (out of sheer concern). I performed normal landing, and I also tested Failsafe (RTH/Land). Everything worked as expected. I did have to re-calibrate the compass after switching batteries, but I think that was because the Rotorpixel gimbal got turned upside-down. :lol:

-Jason

 

[drjay32]

I performed four take-offs and landings and did some basic flying after reverting to Firmware 1.08. I also tested the RTH/Landing Failsafe mode. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary, and I was able to control the unit as normal.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Zhv7eCzB4[/youtube]

 

[Storm dodger]

i was running Firmware 1.08. when had this problem. when i decende... then would like to go up ..... no response... crash and burn :lol:
that is a plus that your PV2 seems to be in working order.i hate that feeling when your waiting for a fail

 

[drjay32]

i was running Firmware 1.08. when had this problem. when i decende... then would like to go up ..... no response... crash and burn :lol:
that is a plus that your PV2 seems to be in working order.i hate that feeling when your waiting for a fail

That sucks. I did get an email back from Keri at RP; he's not aware of any known issues but suggested testing with and without the gimbal to isolate it. He did offer me an exchange/refund if I felt the gimbal was defective. One thing to always check is the condition of the two small round battery data contacts and make sure they are clean.

Another question: did you have this issue always during a descent, or during hover/forward flight?

 

[lightingbryan]

That sucks. I did get an email back from Keri at RP; he's not aware of any known issues but suggested testing with and without the gimbal to isolate it. He did offer me an exchange/refund if I felt the gimbal was defective. One thing to always check is the condition of the two small round battery data contacts and make sure they are clean.

Another question: did you have this issue always during a descent, or during hover/forward flight?

For me it was hovering. For the other unlucky it seems it was hover as well.

 

[drjay32]

Man, that sucks. The only thing I can say about my config is that other than the Main Controller being at 1.08, all the other firmware modules are the latest versions as updated by assistant software version 3.0.

Got to rule out all the other possibilities: check the individual cell voltages in your battery to make sure they are all within a few mV of each other, clean contacts, etc. It appears as though issues with the smart battery are the culprit in the majority of cases. I wish I knew what was going on.

 

[EMCSQUAR]

Somethings you guys might want to check, now that I've seen it twice in about a weeks time - A) the battery contacts to P2 battery (Phantom end) the contact bracket came loose with vibration & B) the cold solder joints at both ends of cables on Phantom battery connection.

Two seperate guys w/almost identical issue - bird dropping like zero battery power. The first one was bad solder joints at battery connector end. The other was a loose dual pin connector - it was held on by 1 screw and plastic was stretching inward due to multiple battery uses.

Just something to look for...

 

[dragonash]

Three times now, I've had uncontrolled descents where it's like the motors are idling but I cannot regain control.

Each time this has happened, I've been in close range (less than 100' away) and at modest altitude (50' or lower). The Phantom just starts coming down fast and I cannot control it. This has happened in both GPS and Atti modes (the third time I switched to Atti during the descent to see if I could regain control). Moreover, I'm not rapidly descending when this has occurred... in fact one time was during slow forward flight/hovering.

This does not appear to be a flyaway issue. The motors simply run at idle speed until impact. Luckily so far, my only damage is a single broken prop.

However, I'm very concerned as to what the heck is going on. I have flown plenty of times with no issues outside of what is operator error.

Basic configuration:
Phantom 2 Vision running firmware 3.04
Battery has been over 50% both times when this has happened; no warnings etc.
WiFi is not interrupted; video can record normally even during crash!
I have a RotorPixel gimbal installed but have no reason to think this is the problem (however I have removed it and will test without it on).
I've opened the shell and all solder joints look fine and intact. Again, I'm not losing power, it just goes into idle.

Your thoughts?

I just posted this over the weekend.

FC40 owner.
Same thing happened. Luckily it landed into the bushes. No damage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3FqlN6AlE0

 

[lightingbryan]

Somethings you guys might want to check, now that I've seen it twice in about a weeks time - A) the battery contacts to P2 battery (Phantom end) the contact bracket came loose with vibration & B) the cold solder joints at both ends of cables on Phantom battery connection.

Two seperate guys w/almost identical issue - bird dropping like zero battery power. The first one was bad solder joints at battery connector end. The other was a loose dual pin connector - it was held on by 1 screw and plastic was stretching inward due to multiple battery uses.

Just something to look for...

I will definitely check it

 

[drjay32]

I just posted this over the weekend.

FC40 owner.
Same thing happened. Luckily it landed into the bushes. No damage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3FqlN6AlE0

Dragonash- What firmware version?