Those that had the Phantom go bye,bye....a few questions

[cornerstore]

The twitter photo was taken on someone's iphone and posted on Facebook. The person who took it alleged it was posted by DJI on Twitter and then removed. I don't know if its fake or not but seems unlikely to me that it would be. I've tweeted DJI to ask about it. Every site I visit that has anything to do with Phantoms, there are stories of people losing their phantoms and complaining that DJI won't respond. If the tweets a fake, if there isn't a problem, I think a lot of us would like to hear that from DJI.

 

[Mark P]

I agree which is why I want DJI to send me a check for $1150.00 for strictly following FAA's - Model Aircraft Operating Standard AC 91-57 as I have always done including following the AMA which I have been a member of for decades, here's their code which maybe DJI should read before selling aircraft that can become unstable within 200' of a smartphone and/or wireless router. AMA https://www.modelaircraft.org/files/105.pdf

After one of these Phantoms zoom off and kill a pregnant women, I'm pretty sure any lawyer will have a heyday with DJI trying to back out and use the FAA's-MAOS when they fill the internet with promotional videos of them flying over hundreds of people in an enclosed building right before they zoom out the door and zip up and down the Vegas strip. Not only are they responsible, they are selling their product with demonstrations breaking every code ever established by any RC enthusiasts standards.

If they would send me my $1150.00 I would even be so kind as to not send them a bill for $60 hr.- 34 hours of searching for their dysfunctional product before their Lipos short out in the rain or drop below 3 amps and burn down a Five Million dollar re-prod Douglas Fir forrest

200' of distance from a router may not be enough. I was reading on another board about a wifi system transmitting 750' and causing crashes with Futaba and Spektrum systems. There are places that use high power wifi, stadiums, convention centers, factories, etc. Those that are flying through the cities should be aware of this issue. In your case I can understand why you want your money back. I live in a rural area so a Futaba or a Spektrum system may work for me.

This is from the Dji Phantom Wiki page.
6. Try to avoid interference between the remote control transmitter and other wireless equipment.
http://wiki.dji-innovations.com/en/inde ... recautions

Yeah, right. How on Earth are we supposed to know where this wireless equipment could be.

Ummmm do you have a link to where wifi is crashing spread spectrum controlled devices other than the phantom? I've been using this technology since the second it was available and have never, ever heard or seen a smartphone or router grab a hold of a spread spectrum system and fly it veering full throttle and away. This is exactly why they made bound spread spectrum radios for things like 3D helicopter events where 50lb helos flying well over 100mph or ducted fan jets flying over 200 mph don't kill people.

Now that we have photographers interested in RC it seems smartphones and routers controlling their product is acceptable? I would love to read where people are having wifi troubles with RC items flying at events of down the main strip of LasVegas

 

[cornerstore]

In reference to the photo of the tweet, you can find the source at this Facebook group..

http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/DJIGuys (scroll down a little and you will see the photo and thread)

I have removed the link to it from my posts as I dont want to get myself in any trouble! I'd just like to know that my Phantom isnt going to fly away on me!

 

[Mark P]

First off that tweet was FAKE. I and over 500 other people follow DJI on twitter. If that tweet existed someone would have replied or re-tweeted it and they can't delete them. Also that is not a picture of Facebook on an iPhone it is a picture of twitter on an iPhone. So that example posted above was not taken from Facebook. (You may have seen someone post that picture on Facebook but the picture itself is a fake Twitter post.)

As for the theory and a potentially good theory on the WIFI issue of the phantom. That is based on the GoPro issue that DJI has agreed exists. You need to understand better why the WiFI issue exists with the GoPro.

First off as you know WiFI frequencies are all playing in the 2.4 GHZ spectrum so it is possible that we are looking at an issue here. That said the ability to cause interference has a great deal to do with proximity and the differences of having a transmitter one inch away from a receiving antenna vs a few feet is a HUGE difference.

The GoPro is transmitting WiFi within inches of the Phantoms receiving antenna taped to one of the legs. Even that is NOT an issue until you get your phantom more then 100' feet away... At some point after 100' feet the signal from your radio to the Phantom becomes weaker then the interference signal from the GoPro and if your lucky at this the phantom may do a Return to home or some other crazy thing.

My guess... Is that a home that has that much complex lighting has a very strong magnetic interference. Walk around it with a old fashion compass. Just walk around lots of places with an old Compass and you will see that power lines and many things cause compass problems. The GPS mode of all quads require good compass signals that don't often exist in urban environments.

People have been flying lots of RC and lots of Quads in urban environments for many years but only in the past few months since the Phantom have people been flying a unit that has a GPS mode in an urban environment. My advise to everyone who flys in urban environments is use ATTI mode and don't expect that a fail safe return to home on any device will work in an urban environment.

Several things here, first and foremost the GoPro has never been in WiFi mode, it has a blinking blue light and in every flight I preflight hover rotate to make sure LEDs and camera is on and filming ( this is because I actually have forgot to press record on one of my best wildlife footage flights before, an Elk will get you excited as it's strolling across at 70' away) seeing a blinking blue light at dusk would be obvious from 50' let alone 6'.

The home is surrounded by electrical mains 4' in the ground starting .65 mile away at the transformer on the connecting road. The meter base transformers are 100' away and on the opposite side of the home that I have 100 minutes of video circling around every inch of, high/low/inside/above, this event was obviously triggered by a wireless signal transmitted to a home router and my guess is since it was 4 seconds later the interference came from the router connecting to the ISY99i controller located in the center of an 11000 sq.ft. home which then sends the signal via power line to the light switches. The lights on the deck have RF antennas and are the last to ramp. Regardless if the Phantom did get interference thats fine and dandy, the fact it flew out of the range of the router and regained control and then re-entered the homes router range and was then controlled by a empty house and no wifi devices communicating leads me to believe that hidden somehow, somewhere in the Phantom a memory of some type that recognizes a recent signal and re performs its veering and fly away procedure. Spread spectrum 2.4 Ghz radios were designed to alleviate this issue. Anyone can side with DJI as an innocent company that is trying to mass sell a "supposedly" well tested product to millions of photographers, children, and youtube enthusiasts, but if this happened at a 3D helicopter/Ducted fan event and something traveling 200 mph where sent off veering into a crowd because of a smartphone or router, I think we would hear about it.

Better yet here's my 12' blimp we fly at professional sporting events with 13k - 50k people indoors and out all with smartphones not to mention Fox sports or competition and all their wireless equipment and we drop coupons and other oddities on the crowd, if you have been to a sporting event and seen this, chances are it may have been us

heres the controllers that sit in my pantry for quick access for my different wildlife filming aircraft



heres the planes that have been sweeping the forrest for hours that actually follow the path repeatedly in an attempt to recover the Phantom before the lipos burn down 100 acres/ 5 million dollars worth of doug fir forrest



And here's an old girl I built in 1994 that I'm converting to brushless, she reaches speeds of 100mph+



And all of these items have logged hundred of hours in the same exact place the Phantom went bonkers..........I'm guessing what is it I need to know about reliable RC and wifi again?

I have had one unexplained crash over a decade ago with an Ultimate Biplane ( if ever a grown man would have a reason to cry) and I don't have pictures of the pile of monocote that was left. I attribute it to the intense aerobatics we were performing and an RX battery somehow disconnecting, this was not on this property

 

[BadWolf]

I agree which is why I want DJI to send me a check for $1150.00 for strictly following FAA's - Model Aircraft Operating Standard AC 91-57 as I have always done including following the AMA which I have been a member of for decades, here's their code which maybe DJI should read before selling aircraft that can become unstable within 200' of a smartphone and/or wireless router. AMA https://www.modelaircraft.org/files/105.pdf

After one of these Phantoms zoom off and kill a pregnant women, I'm pretty sure any lawyer will have a heyday with DJI trying to back out and use the FAA's-MAOS when they fill the internet with promotional videos of them flying over hundreds of people in an enclosed building right before they zoom out the door and zip up and down the Vegas strip. Not only are they responsible, they are selling their product with demonstrations breaking every code ever established by any RC enthusiasts standards.

If they would send me my $1150.00 I would even be so kind as to not send them a bill for $60 hr.- 34 hours of searching for their dysfunctional product before their Lipos short out in the rain or drop below 3 amps and burn down a Five Million dollar re-prod Douglas Fir forrest

200' of distance from a router may not be enough. I was reading on another board about a wifi system transmitting 750' and causing crashes with Futaba and Spektrum systems. There are places that use high power wifi, stadiums, convention centers, factories, etc. Those that are flying through the cities should be aware of this issue. In your case I can understand why you want your money back. I live in a rural area so a Futaba or a Spektrum system may work for me.

This is from the Dji Phantom Wiki page.
6. Try to avoid interference between the remote control transmitter and other wireless equipment.
http://wiki.dji-innovations.com/en/inde ... recautions

Yeah, right. How on Earth are we supposed to know where this wireless equipment could be.

Ummmm do you have a link to where wifi is crashing spread spectrum controlled devices other than the phantom? I've been using this technology since the second it was available and have never, ever heard or seen a smartphone or router grab a hold of a spread spectrum system and fly it veering full throttle and away. This is exactly why they made bound spread spectrum radios for things like 3D helicopter events where 50lb helos flying well over 100mph or ducted fan jets flying over 200 mph don't kill people.

Now that we have photographers interested in RC it seems smartphones and routers controlling their product is acceptable? I would love to read where people are having wifi troubles with RC items flying at events of down the main strip of LasVegas

Here's the link
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=223368

 

[pwright]

...this event was obviously triggered by a wireless signal transmitted to a home router and my guess is since it was 4 seconds later the interference came from the router connecting to the ISY99i controller located in the center of an 11000 sq.ft. home which then sends the signal via power line to the light switches. The lights on the deck have RF antennas and are the last to ramp.

Having your main controller send out signals to 170 light controllers would generate a huge amount of RFI. Far more than your phone or router and certainly enough to overwhelm the low power signal from the Phantom transmitter.

All your hyperbole about pregnant women and orphan children being cut down by rogue phantoms doesn't make your case any stronger and ranting here isn't going to change anything.

 

[Mark P]

200' of distance from a router may not be enough. I was reading on another board about a wifi system transmitting 750' and causing crashes with Futaba and Spektrum systems. There are places that use high power wifi, stadiums, convention centers, factories, etc. Those that are flying through the cities should be aware of this issue. In your case I can understand why you want your money back. I live in a rural area so a Futaba or a Spektrum system may work for me.

This is from the Dji Phantom Wiki page.
6. Try to avoid interference between the remote control transmitter and other wireless equipment.
http://wiki.dji-innovations.com/en/inde ... recautions

Yeah, right. How on Earth are we supposed to know where this wireless equipment could be.

Ummmm do you have a link to where wifi is crashing spread spectrum controlled devices other than the phantom? I've been using this technology since the second it was available and have never, ever heard or seen a smartphone or router grab a hold of a spread spectrum system and fly it veering full throttle and away. This is exactly why they made bound spread spectrum radios for things like 3D helicopter events where 50lb helos flying well over 100mph or ducted fan jets flying over 200 mph don't kill people.

Now that we have photographers interested in RC it seems smartphones and routers controlling their product is acceptable? I would love to read where people are having wifi troubles with RC items flying at events of down the main strip of LasVegas

Here's the link
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=223368

Ummmm the article is three years old and the guy was blasting the field with 3 directional and non directional high gain antennas hooked up to an industrial router and the pilots at one meet were experiencing brownout in one spot 200' away. I did get a chuckle from the guy listing his anti Korean nuke missile defensive command center he set up at a meet "to help the guys out"

 

[BadWolf]

Here's a link to a discontinued Radio Labs router. 1 watt power with a quarter mile range, more with the external antennas. How many of these were sold before it was discontinued. Could one of these routers, or one similar pose a threat to Phantom? http://www.radiolabs.com/products/wirel ... router.php

 

[Mark P]

...this event was obviously triggered by a wireless signal transmitted to a home router and my guess is since it was 4 seconds later the interference came from the router connecting to the ISY99i controller located in the center of an 11000 sq.ft. home which then sends the signal via power line to the light switches. The lights on the deck have RF antennas and are the last to ramp.

Having your main controller send out signals to 170 light controllers would generate a huge amount of RFI. Far more than your phone or router and certainly enough to overwhelm the low power signal from the Phantom transmitter.

All your hyperbole about pregnant women and orphan children being cut down by rogue phantoms doesn't make your case any stronger and ranting here isn't going to change anything.

Having the controller send out 170 or 1 or 10 million wouldnt matter considering it's sent over the homes powerline ( it uses the home wiring to send the hex code) as well as sent in a millisecond. Even the controller is not sending RF, it is an IP device in a laundry room hooked directly to a Homeplug so how is it its going to have an effect on a Phantom 35 seconds after its initial interference. This thing doesn't sit there and pulse like a heart monitor. Infact I already posted a video where we did the exact same thing except turned the lights on previous to taking the shot in this video at 1:23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeXWkjqb_aY

I really don't care about the first interference I regained control and was bringing it back around fine, it's when it hits an Airport Extremes wifi range which has zero to do with lights or anything at this point. Yeah sorry to rant about DJIs craptastic Tx/Rx that launches a Lipo bomb into a 5 million dollar timber stand because of a router. Maybe this next Christmas put a lipo in a pail of water or run it down completely and then throw it in a pail of water in your tree and see if theres a reason you would be POed

 

[Mark P]

Here's a link to a discontinued Radio Labs router. 1 watt power with a quarter mile range, more with the external antennas. How many of these were sold before it was discontinued. Could one of these routers, or one similar pose a threat to Phantom? http://www.radiolabs.com/products/wirel ... router.php

It's apparent anything wifi sends the Phantom peacefully off to slumber in Phantom land, better reserve your seats it's filling up fast!

 

[Mark P]

Actually the guy that was blasting industrial wifi at a hell meet is just up the road about 40 miles, maybe he's the culprit in a Phantom going down in the middle of a 380 acre ranch, not a wireless router or as some think, a lightswitch

 

[Sac D]

And I suppose this was pilot error? The guy didn't even do anything... he's just standing there in a trance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... qhwSX6VXf4

Or maybe it's a "fake" video.

 

[darkhorse]

For the Phantoms that have gone out of control, were they all using a GoPro camera? Specifically, a GoPro Hero 3?

Even with WiFi disabled, it appears that the GoPro is quite a noisy device and appears to interfere with GPS, at least according to the experiment done by this individual in the video below. His solution is to line the GoPro case with metal to shield the camera.

I'm thinking that aluminum heat duct tape available at the local hardware store would work well for this.

Thoughts, comments? If it is so noisy, could it also be possibly interfering with the 2.4Ghz TX/RX?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRdY7t48FG4

Here is another video from another user showing the GoPro interfering with GPS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojY4csnbMi0

Some guy also made some templates to help you create a shield for your specific model of GoPro:

http://www.hovership.com/2013/03/shielding-a-gopros-emi-rf-noise/

 

[cornerstore]

Thats really interesting (gopro interfering with gps even with wifi off).

Im going to see if it interferes with my phantom and insulate the gopro case.

Aluminium tape could be ideal

 

[darkhorse]

Ya, I think I'm going to shield my case regardless. Aluminum tape will add hardly any weight, and any reduction in noise has to be a good thing. Some have suggested adding a ground wire from the camera shield to the ground of the Phantom, not sure if that is needed. Any electrical engineers out there care to comment? :|

 

[cornerstore]

Its absolutely true! Im really surprised. Below is the test just now. No the gopro doesnt sit on top of the phantom! My goal here was to see f I could get the gopro 3 (wifi turned off) to mess with the naza gps. I''d suggest we all do some insulating!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ButRYIG0oK4

 

[darkhorse]

Wow, that is interesting. After insulating/shielding the GoPro case, I wonder if your same test will show any improvement.

I guess as a quick test, you could wrap your camera case externally with aluminum foil.

Edit: a guy did a quick test by wrapping it with foil.

http://youtu.be/x_Rc2zMCEoM

Apparently, however, wrapping it with copper is indeed better than aluminum tape, according to this forum thread and video:

http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?14285-STOP-THE-UHF-INTERFERENCE-FROM-YOUR-GO-PRO-CAMERA(s)

http://youtu.be/p-g48nmj4q8

Here is the copper foil he used:

http://www.minute-man.com/cgi-bin/s...e_Kit__Etching_Solutions___245.html#aCF3#aCF3

Here is what I found on amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/WD-Copper-Shielding-Foil-12/dp/B002HFDPVW/

 

[Mark P]

And I suppose this was pilot error? The guy didn't even do anything... he's just standing there in a trance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... qhwSX6VXf4

Or maybe it's a "fake" video.

Actually someone used a iPhone to turn on their DVD player/lights/ basically anything within 200'

 

[cornerstore]

I've been told elsewhere that I was blocking the GPS signal by sticking the gopro on top of the phantom which makes sense. It didn't have any effect when I placed the gopro anywhere else round the phantom. I guess that's a good thing!

 

[Mark P]

I've been told elsewhere that I was blocking the GPS signal by sticking the gopro on top of the phantom which makes sense. It didn't have any effect when I placed the gopro anywhere else round the phantom. I guess that's a good thing!

It really doesn't matter, they have a poll going on over at some troll forum that shows an 18.5% failure rate amongst people that own them and claim 1%.

The gear or more so the software in that thing is 80% reliable so the odds are in your favor, not to rant and upset anyone or anything 80% is pretty good!