The NAS; The FAA makes a stand.

dirkclod

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Here's the quote that I still think needs a bit more clarification and direction:

"Laws traditionally related to state and local police power – including land use, zoning, privacy, and law enforcement operations – generally are not subject to federal regulation."​

It seems that a local town could enact rules that prohibit drones within 1,000' of a private residence, due to privacy concerns. We've already seen towns that use the privacy umbrella to regulate drone usage, and some have lost in court, but it still has the feel of being in a grey area.

The FAA is declaring that they have ultimate control over the navigable airspace, but still allow some wiggle room.
 
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Here's the quote that I still think needs a bit more clarification and direction:

"Laws traditionally related to state and local police power – including land use, zoning, privacy, and law enforcement operations – generally are not subject to federal regulation."​

It seems that a local town could enact rules that prohibit drones within 1,000' of a private residence, due to privacy concerns. We've already seen towns that use the privacy umbrella to regulate drone usage, and some have lost in court, but it still has the feel of being in a grey area.

The FAA is declaring that they have ultimate control over the navigable airspace, but still allow some wiggle room.

No wiggle room. The statement is that local laws cannot be made that regulate aircraft in public airspace. Local laws are fine as long as they control operations that take place on the ground.

So, local laws can state what a person... standing on the ground... can and cannot do. They cannot state what something can do in the air. There is a little grey area on your example, yes. Personally, I think it is clear though. A local law might try to state that a person cannot be operating a drone with xxx feet of a private residence. I'd say that they are actually regulating the use of nationalal airspace as the infraction relies on the position of the drone itself. If they were to somehow word the law to apply to the person or drone on the ground itself, that would be fine. For example, the National Park service says nothing about drones being in airspace. They only state that a _person_ cannot be on their land while operating a drone and the drone cannot touch their land. In your example it is more complicated as ultimately they are attempting to limit the drones location only while in the air. That cannot do this. If I want to go out on a limb perhaps they could say.... a person cannot be operating a drone within 1000' of private property.

If the law is against privacy it is still aimed at the information being viewed by the person on the ground. It is the same as that person looking to someone's window. They could still fly a drone next to a window and if it did not have a camera, they would not be violating privacy. That is not to say other laws would no apply.

But then, we need to consider that law makers can do pretty much anything they want and judges can rule how ever they want. As Ben Stein once say, judges make most of their decisions on their own personal beliefs, not based on what the law states.
 

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In your example it is more complicated as ultimately they are attempting to limit the drones location only while in the air.
This is what I'm trying to nail down, which is why I consider it to be more complicated than the FAA's simple statement. As you suggest, an ordinance could be created that no drones are allowed to take-off or land within 2 miles of a school zone, due to concerns over children's privacy. Does the FAA's "clarification" now void any of the State rules regarding the harassment of wildlife or the banning of drones to aid in hunting? How about drone operations within x number of feet from critical infrastructure, prisons, dams, etc. Most of these examples are in the books in one form or another in my state or surrounding states, but I don't see them being rescinded without a lawsuit.

I'm not trying to be obtuse, and I appreciate your response, but when I look at some of the various State rules that exist, it still looks like there's room for debate. Again, I appreciate your thoughts and I'm actually surprised that there hasn't been more discussion about what the memo means or how it may impact existing rules.
 
Does the FAA's "clarification" now void any of the State rules regarding the harassment of wildlife or the banning of drones to aid in hunting?

How about drone operations within x number of feet from critical infrastructure, prisons, dams, etc.

Really comes down to how the law is written and.... how a judge looks at the issue. It _is_ a huge unknown thing.

I'm not trying to be obtuse, and I appreciate your response, but when I look at some of the various State rules that exist, it still looks like there's room for debate. Again, I appreciate your thoughts and I'm actually surprised that there hasn't been more discussion about what the memo means or how it may impact existing rules.
You are 100% spot on. There is/has been a HUGE grey area in this regard. This is why so many local authorities have been making laws regulating drones in the air and while the FAA is/has release memos such as this one (they have done this in the past). The FAA feels no need to be more clear on the issue or do anything until it involves an issue with them. Why should they spin their wheels unless it affect them. When someone tries to step on their toes and it affect them, they need to be able to show a judge that they had been active in enforcing their rights. This is one reason why they lost the registration case... they argued that it was a safety issue and they could enforce safety issue. The argument against that was that they had not enforced this... ever... against drones so their argument was not very strong. So this memo is not to help people or really to clearify any issues... it is so the FAA can flex their muscle on this matter at some later date if they need to.
 
so the FAA can flex their muscle on this matter at some later date if they need to
That's the money quote right there... They're just building up a little insurance so that their power doesn't get eroded. Don't get me wrong, I'm much happier having a Federal body oversee the NAS because having things vary from town to town, county to county, and state by state is an awful approach. It would just be great for the FAA to use a finer tipped pencil to draw their lines.
 
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Actually the Constitution has a provision that applies. The Supremacy clause provides that the Constitution and laws of the federal government preempt state (or local) law in areas of federal jurisdiction which would include the NAS. So whether or not the FAA issues a press release if any citizen wanted to undertake the expense he or she could bring a suit in federal court to challenge the local law or ordinance. And that applies to laws within the local police power if they attempt to regulate something in federal jurisdiction
 
So whether or not the FAA issues a press release if any citizen wanted to undertake the expense he or she could bring a suit in federal court to challenge the local law or ordinance. And that applies to laws within the local police power if they attempt to regulate something in federal jurisdiction

Which would usually cost around $30,000 if you want to go that route. That is even before you are charged.

Another route is to be charged and fight it in court. This makes some case law. However, it does not get rid of the law itself.
 
I live close to Gulf Shores and Orange Beach Alabama. They have both enacted local "laws" prohibiting or limiting drone operation in public and private areas. The following is what is on the Gulf Shores website:

Public Beach Rules & Regulations
The City of Gulf Shores strives to provide a safe, clean, family friendly environment for everyone visiting our public beaches. We ask that you take the time to familiarize yourself with the following rules, regulations, and helpful reminders.
  • Tents and shelters larger than 7 feet by 7 feet and taller than 4 feet are not allowed on public beaches. Individual property owners may allow tents and shelters on private property north of the City of Gulf Shores pole markers provided.
  • Any structures or equipment left on the public beach after 8 p.m. will be removed and disposed of by beach patrol.
  • Please keep off the dunes. Staying off the dunes will help us to preserve our dune system and the habitat it provides. Use beach walkover and boardwalks where provided.
  • Observe and obey the Beach Warning Flag System.
  • We encourage you to swim near lifeguard protected waters.
  • Call 251-968-TIDE (8433) for current surf conditions.
Prohibited Items

The following items are strictly prohibited:
  • No glass or breakable containers
  • No alcoholic beverages
  • No pets
  • No tents / canopies larger than 7'x7'x4'
  • No fishing
  • No tobacco and e-cigarettes
  • No motorized vehicles
  • No digging holes deeper than 12 inches
  • No fires, grills or cooking devices
  • No fireworks, sky lanterns, sparklers
  • No drone operation
  • No solicitation
Here is the Orange Beach regulations:

IN THE CITY OF ORANGE BEACH, REMEMBER:
  • Hobby drone use is not allowed except by a person on their own personal property, or on property they have the express permission of an owner to use. Hobby drone use is not allowed on the beach.

  • Drone use connected to a special event must have a special event permit that includes permission for use of the drone. and likewise for commercial productions involving video, film or audio, which require a film permit. Find permit forms and additional information at www.orangebeachal.gov/events/special-events.

  • Commercial or real estate entities that film with drones multiple times a year must receive permission annually with a fee added to their business license fee. Business license information and forms can be found at www.orangebeachal.gov/departments/finance-department/business-licenses.

  • All Orange Beach drone filming permit applications must provide valid FAA certification and each applicant must produce proof of liability insurance.

  • Each permitted drone user’s flight plan - including those used for special events, concerts and film productions - must be approved by the city with a minimum of 7 days’ notice. Permits, where applicable, are required prior to submission. Email plans to [email protected].
They are cracking down on us.
 
I live close to Gulf Shores and Orange Beach Alabama. They have both enacted local "laws" prohibiting or limiting drone operation in public and private areas. The following is what is on the Gulf Shores website:

Public Beach Rules & Regulations
The City of Gulf Shores strives to provide a safe, clean, family friendly environment for everyone visiting our public beaches. We ask that you take the time to familiarize yourself with the following rules, regulations, and helpful reminders.
  • Tents and shelters larger than 7 feet by 7 feet and taller than 4 feet are not allowed on public beaches. Individual property owners may allow tents and shelters on private property north of the City of Gulf Shores pole markers provided.
  • Any structures or equipment left on the public beach after 8 p.m. will be removed and disposed of by beach patrol.
  • Please keep off the dunes. Staying off the dunes will help us to preserve our dune system and the habitat it provides. Use beach walkover and boardwalks where provided.
  • Observe and obey the Beach Warning Flag System.
  • We encourage you to swim near lifeguard protected waters.
  • Call 251-968-TIDE (8433) for current surf conditions.
Prohibited Items

The following items are strictly prohibited:
  • No glass or breakable containers
  • No alcoholic beverages
  • No pets
  • No tents / canopies larger than 7'x7'x4'
  • No fishing
  • No tobacco and e-cigarettes
  • No motorized vehicles
  • No digging holes deeper than 12 inches
  • No fires, grills or cooking devices
  • No fireworks, sky lanterns, sparklers
  • No drone operation
  • No solicitation
Here is the Orange Beach regulations:

IN THE CITY OF ORANGE BEACH, REMEMBER:
  • Hobby drone use is not allowed except by a person on their own personal property, or on property they have the express permission of an owner to use. Hobby drone use is not allowed on the beach.

  • Drone use connected to a special event must have a special event permit that includes permission for use of the drone. and likewise for commercial productions involving video, film or audio, which require a film permit. Find permit forms and additional information at www.orangebeachal.gov/events/special-events.

  • Commercial or real estate entities that film with drones multiple times a year must receive permission annually with a fee added to their business license fee. Business license information and forms can be found at www.orangebeachal.gov/departments/finance-department/business-licenses.

  • All Orange Beach drone filming permit applications must provide valid FAA certification and each applicant must produce proof of liability insurance.

  • Each permitted drone user’s flight plan - including those used for special events, concerts and film productions - must be approved by the city with a minimum of 7 days’ notice. Permits, where applicable, are required prior to submission. Email plans to [email protected].
They are cracking down on us.
Seems reasonable.
 
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No drone operation on the beach so if across the street can you fly? Why are not regular cameras banned? I am assuming drones prohibited due to privacy laws. They all contain glass.
 
No drone operation on the beach so if across the street can you fly? Why are not regular cameras banned? I am assuming drones prohibited due to privacy laws. They all contain glass.

Not privacy, safety.

Cameras typically do not pose a risk from spinning propellers or uncontrolled descent to the public.
 
No drone operation on the beach so if across the street can you fly? Why are not regular cameras banned? I am assuming drones prohibited due to privacy laws. They all contain glass.
"They all contain glass"???? What in the world does that have to do with anything?

Yeah, it's not about privacy. Why would you think that?
 
This is simply a re-statement by the FAA of the division of jurisdiction between the FAA and State/local governments. The authorities have always been there, but State/local governments have been haphazard and often out-of-bounds in their creation of drone regulations.
 
Not privacy, safety.

Cameras typically do not pose a risk from spinning propellers or uncontrolled descent to the public.
No it's bias (against drones) being peddled under the guise of safety and privacy. A responsible pilot wouldn't be flying over people, but again, the few have ruined it for the majority. A pilot flying over the water filming poses very little risk to those on the beach.

If it were about safety, Florida beaches would be permanently closed due to sharks...just saying. [emoji1]
1533090639034.jpg
 
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K
No drone operation on the beach so if across the street can you fly? Why are not regular cameras banned? I am assuming drones prohibited due to privacy laws. They all contain glass.

Kind of as a rule of thumb, local governments can control where you take off and land. Once in the air, the FAA rules. There are some exceptions, such as if you fly your drone up close to a window to take pictures of someone changing clothes in their home, the local police could cite you for violating "peeping Tom" statutes. Answering your question, in Santa Monica, California, it's a misdemeanor crime to fly your drone on the beach. But if you go inland by a block, it is not illegal to take off from a street, so you should be able to fly over the beach to capture photos/video.
 
It’s not just local authorities, any property owner can forbid the use of said property for (model) aircraft operations.
 

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