So I got ticketed by Federal Police Officers...(video included)

Yes, you will get green GPS lock if I think 2 miles out from an airport, but you will get a warning that you have to check two boxes an click 'confirm' to get it off the screen. The map should also show you different colored zones but may need internet to get that level of info.
If you are within a yellow circle, then you have to have a verified account with DJI and internet access on the app to accept responsibility. If no internet, you can go online elsewhere, get a code then enter the code in the app. DJI changed their approach from the past method that was strictly GPS since they realized location alone was insufficient.
Red zones, usually jails and possibly center of airports, are completely NFZ and cannot be unlocked.

Sent from my HTC 10 using PhantomPilots mobile app

This is interesting as I have not noticed this on mine...Granted I have not tried to take off from within my house (within 5 miles), however when powering on and getting a GPS lock in my home it has never given me any warnings or anything out of the ordinary.
 
If this place is illegal to fly than how did Ken Heron manage to get permission to fly the Arch(he mentions he did without getting ticketed

Ironically he also appears to be doing it while flying over people...and getting pretty close to the structure.
 
I live just outside the AIR FORCE ACADEMY nfz. Just north from me, I can't arm my drone at all.


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I wonder if it is drone specific then...What drone are you using? I am using the phantom 3 standard.
 
You got off cheap. The guy who posted here about his vacation flight in some deserted Yellowstone N.P. area that he posted on Youtube started out at $1,035 and got it lowered by $250 at the end by federal judge.

Yikes! I think I heard of that one. If I remember right he had actual footage on youtube and that's how they found him even wasn't it? That may have played a factor. They did ask to see my phone and verify that I had not footage on there. I didn't as I had just taken off and was not recording or taking pictures yet. Had I though, they would have made me delete them
 
I was in Stl same time, weather sucked so I didn't attempt it. Bad luck all week, kicked out of hotel for smoking, locked keys in the car. I was like pfft headed back to kc.


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If this place is illegal to fly than how did Ken Heron manage to get permission to fly the Arch(he mentions he did without getting ticketed

That is a professionally done video. I am sure he had a contract to produce/film and edit and then it was included in the Theater presentation at the Visitor's center under the Arch. NPS has presentations theaters at most of their Parks. I saw a similar one at Fort Fredricka national Monument on St. Simon's Island in Georgia last week.




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I don't disagree, but like I just mentioned, simply educating me would have sufficed

I don't think this should be annoying you too much. Sure it would have corrected your behavior, but it wouldn't have emphasized to everybody who hears about your experience just how important it is to research every location they want to shoot. It would also contribute to the sense that one can just go fly in restricted areas and pretend they didn't realize that what they were doing was illegal in the unlikely event that they get caught.

In Canada, you can't fly in National Parks, but you can fly in some province's (but not mine's) Provincial Parks. Like the rules in your National Parks, the rules in Canada and my province provide for the loophole that a flight could be initiated outside the park and operations conducted inside, as long as no takeoffs/landings occur inside the park. I believe your rules would preclude you from walking into the park after takeoff, while mine do not. I knew that from my initial research before I even purchased my Phantom.

Note that if you're flying under the "takeoff outside and fly in" loophole, you should be prepared to be ticketed. The officers likely won't be as nice as these ones were either, because they might see you as being difficult when you start quoting the letter of the law. I'd have a printed copy of the relevant law if I were you, and be prepared to fight your case in court if you're planning to capitalize on any such loopholes.

After reading your OP, I decided to do some additional research in case any other areas I fly or plan to fly is restricted. What I didn't know is that there's a bylaw against me flying in city parks (whether or not that flight is initiated outside). I'm glad I wasn't caught the few times I unknowingly violated this, as any sort of record of bad flight practices could possibly impact future applications of mine for a Special Flight Operations Certificate (SFOC), which is a requirement in Canada for any commercial operations. I also found that I was mistaken on the areas I couldn't fly in my area without applying for a SFOC due to small helipads, such as those attached to hospitals.

For any other Canadians, check out:
UAV Site Selection Tool - National Research Council Canada
But note that it's incomplete since provincial and municipal rules don't appear to be taken into account.

Thanks for posting your experience, as I was just about to fly in a city park with a nice downtown view that was technically also restricted airspace due to a nearby helipad, and the fact that our city's international airport has a specially extended restriction zone.
 
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As i'm sure you saw in my video and I believe I mentioned in my post, I did not talk trash about the Officers in any way. In fact that is part of the reason I only included audio and not anything about them, to respect their position. I get along great with LEO and this is not what this was about.

As for drug runners using it, I agree that sucks. However, guns are used by gang members too so should we get rid of the Second Amendment? (Sadly, I'm sure someone here is like "yea") Just because something can be used in a criminal event does not mean it should get banned for everyone. In that case get rid of cars too because drunk drivers kill people every day (and your alcohol!).

As for flying under the arch with a plane, thank you for sharing. That's actually pretty funny (now, i'm sure it was not at the time) and interesting. The two are completely different however. I think we can agree Flying a small drone 100+ feet away from the arch and flying a full size plane through it are pretty different!

Thanks for sharing.

Roses,,

Thank you for respecting the LEO. That is not always the case . It is appreciated. Because of those small planes the Arch became a no fly zone long before drones were made available to the public


Enjoy your next flight. I fly at a local golf course in my back yard with the owner's permission. I can do several waypoint missions.
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I don't think this should be annoying you too much. Sure it would have corrected your behavior, but it wouldn't have emphasized to everybody who hears about your experience just how important it is to research every location they want to shoot. It would also contribute to the sense that one can just go fly in restricted areas and pretend they didn't realize that what they were doing was illegal in the unlikely event that they get caught.
There's also a matter of attitude, which extends beyond the bright lines of the law, that I tried (poorly) to address in a previous post.

@Rosey , I was not speaking to you directly although it sure looked like it. Please don't take what I say here as direct criticism. Rather, I have in mind a small group here on the forum that seem to have a "F anyone who wants to get in my way" attitude.

That was the point of using the Arch, and possibly exploiting the cracks in the law between jurisdiction (airspace--FAA, ground--Parks) to frustrate what is obviously the goal of the National Parks/Monuments restriction -- private drones are simply incompatible with the public purpose, and enjoyment, of the park.

So, people need to take a socially cooperative attitude toward our hobby (and/or business). Otherwise, we will be the ones that lose. Where the law falls short of meeting some public goal, the law will be changed. The more we expose those shortcomings in the law by frustrating its purpose, the quicker it will be changed.

I'd rather have fewer, less-restrictive laws and be liked and respected by the community than under a heavier and heavier thumb of government. Making it more and more work to be sure I comply.
 
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I highly recommend the use of Airmap.

445a0b8e2bb2dc15fcb23947853b54a7.jpg



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Just installed Airmap
Highly inaccurate here in QLD Aus
Tells me I'm in a highly regulated area when I know for a fact that I'm not
 
Just installed Airmap
Highly inaccurate here in QLD Aus
Tells me I'm in a highly regulated area when I know for a fact that I'm not

This pic reminds me of when I used used to live at Gentry's.
Good'ole dowtown STL, I do not miss you.
 
I don't think this should be annoying you too much. Sure it would have corrected your behavior, but it wouldn't have emphasized to everybody who hears about your experience just how important it is to research every location they want to shoot. It would also contribute to the sense that one can just go fly in restricted areas and pretend they didn't realize that what they were doing was illegal in the unlikely event that they get caught.

In Canada, you can't fly in National Parks, but you can fly in some province's (but not mine's) Provincial Parks. Like the rules in your National Parks, the rules in Canada and my province provide for the loophole that a flight could be initiated outside the park and operations conducted inside, as long as no takeoffs/landings occur inside the park. I believe your rules would preclude you from walking into the park after takeoff, while mine do not. I knew that from my initial research before I even purchased my Phantom.

Note that if you're flying under the "takeoff outside and fly in" loophole, you should be prepared to be ticketed. The officers likely won't be as nice as these ones were either, because they might see you as being difficult when you start quoting the letter of the law. I'd have a printed copy of the relevant law if I were you, and be prepared to fight your case in court if you're planning to capitalize on any such loopholes.

After reading your OP, I decided to do some additional research in case any other areas I fly or plan to fly is restricted. What I didn't know is that there's a bylaw against me flying in city parks (whether or not that flight is initiated outside). I'm glad I wasn't caught the few times I unknowingly violated this, as any sort of record of bad flight practices could possibly impact future applications of mine for a Special Flight Operations Certificate (SFOC), which is a requirement in Canada for any commercial operations. I also found that I was mistaken on the areas I couldn't fly in my area without applying for a SFOC due to small helipads, such as those attached to hospitals.

For any other Canadians, check out:
UAV Site Selection Tool - National Research Council Canada
But note that it's incomplete since provincial and municipal rules don't appear to be taken into account.

Thanks for posting your experience, as I was just about to fly in a city park with a nice downtown view that was technically also restricted airspace due to a nearby helipad, and the fact that our city's international airport has a specially extended restriction zone.
Hey Jason,

Thanks for your input and additional information to others in your area. I'm glad my incident was able to help you (and hopefully others).
 
Someone should set up some aerial refueling and do a relay into and out of a National Park. Just hand off to another controller while VLOS and relay around the place as the FAA explained in some video where they flew a drone around a building and each side had someone with a controller who flew that section until the next corner and a new visual sight pilot took over, all while in visible flight rules. Distance (refueling the battery in flight) could be an issue to solve. Solar drone maybe? :p

Entire N.P. drone ban is too much of a knee-jerk reaction for me. They could set up some ranger or naturalist to monitor a group of (paying?) flyers on a few days a year in some portion where it would be safe. A couple of accidents doesn't demand an outright ban any more than a few rock climber falls and deaths banning rock climbing, or cardiac events while hiking to ban anyone unfit to even enter the park. They have events for snowshoeing, fishing, astronomy, wine tasting (??), photography, etc. led by rangers. Don't see why they couldn't t do it for drones either on certain low-attendance days or remote places like Death Valley N.P. Joshua Tree, Utah Redlands/Arches, etc. If they required a AMA membership for their $2.5 million bond to fly, so be it.
 
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There's also a matter of attitude, which extends beyond the bright lines of the law, that I tried (poorly) to address in a previous post.

@Rosey , I was not speaking to you directly although it sure looked like it. Please don't take what I say here as direct criticism. Rather, I have in mind a small group here on the forum that seem to have a "F anyone who wants to get in my way" attitude.

That was the point of using the Arch, and possibly exploiting the cracks in the law between jurisdiction (airspace--FAA, ground--Parks) to frustrate what is obviously the goal of the National Parks/Monuments restriction -- private drones are simply incompatible with the public purpose, and enjoyment, of the park.

So, people need to take a socially cooperative attitude toward our hobby (and/or business). Otherwise, we will be the ones that lose. Where the law falls short of meeting some public goal, the law will be changed. The more we expose those shortcomings in the law by frustrating its purpose, the quicker it will be changed.

I'd rather have fewer, less-restrictive laws and be liked and respected by the community than under a heavier and heavier thumb of government. Making it more and more work to be sure I comply.
Hey dwallersv,

First off, thanks for clarifying. Secondly, I could have responded differently to your post.

I agree with a lot of what you said. I'm all about following the laws, even if I don't agree with them. I want to be a part on the positive side of drones, and hopefully help lead us to a better place legally in the future. There is a lot of unnecessary "drone fear" in America right now.

Hopefully as time goes on vwe can eventually get away from this and the public will not have such negative views on them in the future.
 
I can't help but wonder whether or not you have an FAA Hobby Certificate to fly and if you bothered to register with the FAA. If you did then by complying you would have had to read the rules and regulations set forth. It is plainly listed in this material that National Parks are off limits to all drone flights. You assertion that you were unaware of this leads me to think that you are not a registered pilot ?
 
This is where I disagree with how things are handled. For others here who say "it's common sense, has been known for years" or "EVERYONE has known this for years". That simply is not true. There are many who do not know. Many who mean no harm or wish to violate any laws. If they're going to enforce this I believe they need to list "no drone" signs everywhere and in the entry points. It might be a lot of work for the park to tear down the signs and redo them all, but they need to add drone laws visibly obvious for the times we live in. There was an area I flew in after reading all the parks posts and rules, regulations. Afterwards I found out from someone here that "everyone knows you can't fly there, everyone has known this for years".

I haven't returned there since. It's not just something that comes naturally for all of us, especially new people like me who read up on all the rules, yet the signs and posts had not been updated to include drone rules. But like the original poster, now I know with Airmap.

Don't take this as me being hostile, that's not my intention! I'm simply saying it's not that obvious for all of us.
 
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Good info here.....so not that I would do it cause it would probably still put you in confrontation with the local authorities....is it legal to take off/operate/land outside of the zone and fly within??
 

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