Sign This Petition to Avoid FAA Pilot License to Fly Drones!

[Jeff48920]

Sigh
One more time.

I know exactly what is going on and your commentary is patronizing at best.
Please do not presume to lecture me ever again on the law or any other matter.

I believe that you may have ulterior motives for you position and couch your commentary in a way that will scare off others from debating you.

So what if the FAA has to start over with a new proposed rule. A screwed up rule needs to be fixed, not left in place because it's better than something that MAY BE worse. A concerted effort by a large group of knowledgeable citizens will ameliorate that possibility.

I have no idea why you state the obvious in your last two paragraphs. We ALL know that incident reports are not accident reports and that the media sucks. I am not sure what it adds to your argument.

Let me clarify all this. Even if signing the petition accomplishes nothing (and according to your arguments it had no chance of changing anything), it states a person's beliefs that the current and proposed rules are overly regulatory for the stated purpose.

I am not willing to take scraps when there is a roast on the table. And I refuse to pay someone else for my right to a piece of the roast. Therefore it is my position that training from "certified" airman teaching outrageously expensive classes to perfectly capable UAV owners is legislation which specifically economically benefits a class of people. Government may not do so without significant governmental interests (ie safety) being served.

 

[SteveMann]

Can you define for me a "Small UAS"?

It is defined in the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, Section 331:
(6) SMALL UNMANNED AIRCRAFT.—The term ‘‘small unmanned aircraft’’ means an unmanned aircraft weighing less than 55 pounds.

 

[Fyod]

Have a look at how Europe might soon have drone regulation. I think this is the best piece of drone proposal to come from any governmental group.
Summary http://easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/205933-01-EASA_Summary of the ANPA.pdf
Full http://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/A-NPA 2015-10.pdf

Some bits I think we all agree on (notice that commercial operation is not treated as something special and in need of certificates and licenses):

The Agency considered several terms such as Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS), Remotely Piloted Aircraft Systems (RPAS) (a UAS subcategory), but finally followed the general usage of the term ‘drone’ with the following definition:

‘Drone shall mean an aircraft without a human pilot on board, whose flight is controlled either autonomously or under the remote control of a pilot on the ground or in another vehicle.’

The types of operations are also diverse: precision agriculture, aerial photography, surveillance, inspections of buildings, inspection of railways, pre-flight aircraft inspection, etc. In some cases drones are replacing manned aircraft while in others they are creating a new market (e.g. building inspections).

Small and Medium-sized Enterprises (SMEs): another characteristic of the drone industry is the importance of SMEs in the drone business. This is the case for both manufacturers and operators. These SMEs may not be too familiar with aviation legislation, and awareness campaigns might be an appropriate way to reach out this sector.

Support at political level: the European Commission, the European Parliament and the Council of the European Union are calling for the safe, secure and environmentally friendly development of the drone industry as it will bring about employment, growth and technological development, while respecting at the same time the public concerns about privacy and data protection. This support has been expressed in the Declaration which was adopted following a Summit organised during the Latvian Presidency in Riga in early March 2015.

The following principles were identified as the main drivers for a European regulatory framework

• — Drones need to be treated as new types of aircraft with proportionate rules based on the risk of each operation.
• — EU rules for the safe provision of drone services need to be developed now.
• — Technologies and standards need to be developed for the full integration of drones in the EU airspace.

An agency of the European Union

• — Public acceptance is key to the growth of drone services.
• — The operator of a drone is responsible for its use.
  These principles have been used as guiding lines for the work of the Agency.

Three categories will be established for the operation of drones:

• — ‘Open’ category (low risk): safety is ensured through operations limitations, compliance with industry standards, and the requirement to have certain functionalities and a minimum set of operational rules. Enforcement mainly by the police.
• — ‘Specific category’ (medium risk): authorisation by an NAA possibly assisted by a Qualified Entity (QE) following a risk assessment performed by the operator.
  A manual of operations lists the risk mitigation measures.
• — ‘Certified’ category (higher risk): requirements comparable to those for manned aviation. Oversight by NAA (issue of licences and approval of maintenance, operations, training, ATM/ANS and aerodromes organisations) and by the Agency (design and approval of foreign organisations).

The classic assumption is that only the traditional certification and licensing processes would mitigate such hazards and keep the aviation system safe. Even if certification and licensing conditions were kept as ‘light’ as possible, the traditional manned aviation approach is likely to produce a too heavy approach to drones, especially to the small-drone market. The level of rigour applied to safety management in manned aviation (involving strict controls of aircraft design, production and maintenance; pilots; operations with (in most cases) ex ante licensing and continuous monitoring) is disproportionate to the risk posed by many drone operations. Overburdening low-risk operations lead to a climate of indifference or to illegal operations adversely affecting safety.

In the drone sector a typical operator does not have an aviation background, even commercial operators don’t consider themselves as aircraft operators and they want to use a tool which is in many cases much safer than, e.g., climbing on oil rigs for inspections.

• — Only flights in direct visual line of sight of the pilot are allowed.
• — Only drones with a maximum take-off mass below 25 kg are allowed.
• — No operation of drones in ‘no-drone zones’ is permitted.
• — Drones operating in ‘limited-drone zones’ must comply with the applicable limitations.
• — The pilot is responsible for the safe separation from any other airspace user(s) and shall give right of way to any other airspace user(s).
• — A drone in the ‘open’ category shall not operate at an altitude exceeding 150 m above the ground or water.
• — The pilot is responsible for the safe operation and safe distance from uninvolved persons and property on the ground and from other airspace users and shall never fly the drone above crowds (> 12 persons).

 

[Vanjo Grale]

We actually just listed a house owned by a guy who works for the FAA on drone issues. He hasn't said anything about our drone use besides that he liked the pictures.

He's coming into town this weekend. My instincts have always been "don't ask, don't tell" about the legal aspects, but I guess I need to ask him what he thinks about all this.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

I realize what a total drag it is to require this but by law this is the only way the FAA can meet current regulations in regards to proper training etc. I don't see how a petition regardless how many signatures can change that.

Maybe if you didn't have a pilots license you'd feel differently. How else would you go about changing the current regulations?

 

[BigAl07]

Maybe if you didn't have a pilots license you'd feel differently. How else would you go about changing the current regulations?

Way to drag up an old thread and throw gas on the fire. Better yet do some research and see what/how some regulations are supposedly on the table for change right now. Lot's has happened since this thread was started.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

WTF are you talking about? I'm not dragging anything up. I don't need you to tell me to do research either. You made up BS about me dragging up an old thread(I have no idea what you're talking about) then tell me to do research ? Come back online when you sober up.

 

[ianwood]

The NPRM comment window was the opportunity, No???
Having ad-hoc requests coming in will not improve their efficiency and seems simply unmanageable.

Exactly! NPRM has been around for ages now. And it's bad enough Congress is coming up with all sorts of new stuff as part of the reauthorization. Let's just do part 107 and be done with it. We can polish the turd later.

EDIT: Just realized this thread is ancient.

 

[BigAl07]

WTF are you talking about? I'm not dragging anything up. I don't need you to tell me to do research either. You made up BS about me dragging up an old thread(I have no idea what you're talking about) then tell me to do research ? Come back online when you sober up.

Chill out buddy. We're on the same side here.

This thread has not been touched since September 2015. New rules are on the table and "hopefully" many aspects of this entire discussion will be a moot point sooner than later.

 

[TWP723]

WTH happened to this thread?

 

[Sim597]

Anyway, it may have been before it happened the guy posted about "no one has ever been hurt, period" but we now know of at least one case where a lady (I think) was really badly hurt in Seattle at a Pride event due to an idiot flying over the parade.

I have to agree that commercial uav pilots tend to fly a LOT safer, but they have way way more to lose, this will always be the case, and it always has been this way for other things of this nature. There are guys right in this forum that state in the open "I fly over ppl all the time" and personally, I'd like to see them get busted, or fined for their ignorance. I also agree that "Billy Bob" or some jack hole that hasn't opened the instructional booklet on safe flying, or bothers to register, those are the idiots who will ruin it for everyone else, just like anything else, it's always a few morons that ruin it for everyone, and this will be the hard part, to differentiate between law abiding citizens and the Trumps of this world.

 

[bluntnose]

I'm coming in late to this discussion. Query: couldn't a position paper from a national drone user association do some good in educating Congress about the very points you just raised, particularly if it represented thousands of voters?

 

[agrimm01]

Federal, Federal Aviation Administration: Pilot Licenses Exemption for Light-Weight Drones for Commercial Use

Do not petition to do away with the requirement to be a pilot to operate a drone for commercial use. I'm using that as my excuse to obtain my pilots license!!!!

 

[BigAl07]

Do not petition to do away with the requirement to be a pilot to operate a drone for commercial use. I'm using that as my excuse to obtain my pilots license!!!!

Stick with it regardless. Having my PPL is one of the most rewarding things I've ever done. There is nothing like getting in the cockpit and taking control flying anywhere you want to (or can afford to LOL). To this day I still get the same kid-like excitement when walking up to the plane doing my preflight checks and such. When the tower announces "Cleared for takeoff runway ###" I still get goosebumps even after 18 years of flying.

 

[turbulence]

To this day I still get the same kid-like excitement when walking up to the plane doing my preflight checks and such. When the tower announces "Cleared for takeoff runway ###" I still get goosebumps even after 18 years of flying.

I get goosebumps on my drive to the airport when I fly. Once I say "CLEAR" it's a different story. The goosebumps go away and a big grin comes out!

 

[BigAl07]

I get goosebumps on my drive to the airport when I fly. Once I say "CLEAR" it's a different story. The goosebumps go away and a big grin comes out!

EXACTLY! Man that grin! Unless it's a really long and/or stressful flight that grin stays plastered on my face until I finish tying the plane down. Every picture taken of me in the cockpit looks like I am trying to grin until my face cracks open or something.

It's funny you mention "Once I say CLEAR". Everyone who knows me knows I'm a clown and love to have fun and cut up. Every single person who has flown with me remarks how professional and calm I am when I'm in/around the plane. I'm still "Me" but I am very focused and in-tune with the plane but I still have that "Grin" ear to ear. All this talk makes me want to go flying today.... dang work gets in the way all the time LOL.

 

[RyanK]

Stick with it regardless. Having my PPL is one of the most rewarding things I've ever done. There is nothing like getting in the cockpit and taking control flying anywhere you want to (or can afford to LOL). To this day I still get the same kid-like excitement when walking up to the plane doing my preflight checks and such. When the tower announces "Cleared for takeoff runway ###" I still get goosebumps even after 18 years of flying.

That's great that a PPL is rewarding for you, and I truly would love to get mine some day, but the cost of getting that PPL is quite restrictive, and there are very few things learned in getting that PPL that would aid you in commercial drone piloting. I admit that weather, radio, and airspace knowledge would be helpful, but there's a whole lot of stuff you learn that truly isn't. Therefore, one should NOT need to go spend $10k minimum to get a pilot's license just to fly a drone commercially.

But hats off to you for getting yours.

 

[BigAl07]

That's great that a PPL is rewarding for you, and I truly would love to get mine some day, but the cost of getting that PPL is quite restrictive, and there are very few things learned in getting that PPL that would aid you in commercial drone piloting. I admit that weather, radio, and airspace knowledge would be helpful, but there's a whole lot of stuff you learn that truly isn't. Therefore, one should NOT need to go spend $10k minimum to get a pilot's license just to fly a drone commercially.

But hats off to you for getting yours.

It's not a lot but you can save some $$ going with the Sport Pilot rating (probably $4k - $5k) but you're still correct it's hugely overkill.

For transparency I had my PPL long before I decided to do Commercial UAS Ops. It was just a bonus that I already had it when we decided to do this and form the company.

 

[agrimm01]

I think the best way to look at it from a commercial point of view is:
1: Spending $5-$10k is not much if you are serious about starting a new business. Even with the drone purchase you are talking 10-15k max.
2: Spending this kind of money will weed out many of those who aren't serious about this.
3: Best excuse to get a pilots license.

 

[BigAl07]

I think the best way to look at it from a commercial point of view is:
1: Spending $5-$10k is not much if you are serious about starting a new business. Even with the drone purchase you are talking 10-15k max.
2: Spending this kind of money will weed out many of those who aren't serious about this.
3: Best excuse to get a pilots license.

I completely agree. If you're going to start a real business that initial investment could be made back fairly quickly. If you're doing a hobby and want to make some side cash then not so much.