Shooting videos over water, filters and settings

oscaro0 · Jun 7, 2017

Hi,

I've already posted a thread on the official DJI forum, but did not get that much answers, so I'd like to submit my interrogations to your community

I'm mostly using my Phantom 4 to shoot cable wakeboarding (many videos on youtube if you don't know what it is

) videos. So basically, I'm flying in circles above a lake, following a guy, 4 meters above water level. I have experimented different ways of shooting, but am not very very satidfied til now .. So I've got some interrogations, despite all my investigations on the internet.

-First of all, when I fly without any filter on the camera (stock DJI UV filter), I tend to have some water reflexions on my images, like the water's shining. I've done some researches on the internet, it's common, and I ended buying a ND8 filter. Well, when the weather's sunny enough, then it works very well cancelling the water reflexions. The problem is when I want to shoot when the light is not that bright, let's say in grey clouds conditions. A ND8 filter stops too much light, but the stock UV filter doesn't filter the water reflexions. Shall I go for a ND4 ? A Polarized lens ? I would guess the polarized lens is not very adapted since I'm flying in circles, one time I got the sun behing, the other time in front of me, etc. Finally, I'm looking for a filter that cancels the unwanted water effects, in low light conditions (since in "high light" conditions, the ND filters seem to be satisfying).

-Concerning the camera settings, the ISO and shutter speed. Again, I'm flying in circles around a lake. So if I manually set a shutter speed and ISO setting, then it will be perfect for a certain orientation, but not good for another one. So for the moment, I've got the best results flying in "Auto" mode. Does it seem to be fair to you ? Or is there another technique ? I can't afford manually tuning the shutter and ISO all the time, since the guy I'm following is moving around 30-35km/h, I got to be focused on the subject, and not hit anything around; so focusing on chasing the guy is a hard enough task

-Concerning the photo style. For the moment, I'm using the None style, with no correction at all. I would like to improve the video quality of my footages.
On many places over the internet, I can see people talking about Cinelike-D and D-Log.
Well, tell me if I'm right, if I summarize: Cinelike-D seems to give quality "ready to use" images, while D-Log gives flat images, ready for post, with POSSIBLE (if you know how to treat) amazing rendering.
First concern about D-Log. Since, in my situation, the light is changing all the time, will I be able to apply decent color correction to all my video ? My first thought is that I will only be able to treat the video "part by part". I should precise that I'm not an expert at all in color grading .. But it seems that some LUTs profiles can be "simply" downloaded and added. It looks like post production is "easy" when you got a "linear" plan, like a traveling, wthout light changes. I would initially guess it's not very adapted to my situation.
Shall I give Cinelike-D a try ? Is it worth tuning the sharpness, noise reduction, contrast, etc. ?
Actually, I'm completely lost with these photo style settings

Thanks in advance for your advices !
Oscar

msinger · Jun 7, 2017

oscaro0 said:
I've done some researches on the internet, it's common, and I ended buying a ND8 filter. Well, when the weather's sunny enough, then it works very well cancelling the water reflexions. The problem is when I want to shoot when the light is not that bright, let's say in grey clouds conditions. A ND8 filter stops too much light, but the stock UV filter doesn't filter the water reflexions.

Try just a plain CPL filter (like this one). It will have to be rotated properly to cut the reflections.

oscaro0 said:
I'm flying in circles around a lake. So if I manually set a shutter speed and ISO setting, then it will be perfect for a certain orientation, but not good for another one. So for the moment, I've got the best results flying in "Auto" mode.

Auto is really going to be your best option here since you cannot continuously stop and adjust the manual settings as needed.

oscaro0 said:
Shall I give Cinelike-D a try ? Is it worth tuning the sharpness, noise reduction, contrast, etc. ?

Take some experimental footage that will be okay to throw away if you don't like it. That'll allow you to try different settings, compare them, and choose the settings that work best for you.

oscaro0 · Jun 7, 2017

Hi msinger,

Thanks for your answers

Concerning the plain CPL filter, won't it have to be tuned (eg. the small ring setting) according to how it is orientated compared to the sun ? Some guys have advised me to use a ND4 filter for cloudy conditions ..
For the Auto setting, you're confirming the tests I've performed

Finally, for the photo style setting and the options. I'm not very comfortable with color grading in post (if you have advices/tutorials/(LUTs ?), I take it!)
And especially, I'm really concerned about how to do it when the light comes from different directions all along a sequence: once the sun faces the camera, then it's on my right side, then on my back, etc.
I would guess that the color grading is brightness/contrast independant. I can easily see how these gradings are done on a photo/a linear traveling scene, but when turning around with luminosity changes ...

r62ewa · Jun 7, 2017

oscaro0 said:
Hi msinger,

Thanks for your answers

Concerning the plain CPL filter, won't it have to be tuned (eg. the small ring setting) according to how it is orientated compared to the sun ? Some guys have advised me to use a ND4 filter for cloudy conditions ..
For the Auto setting, you're confirming the tests I've performed

Finally, for the photo style setting and the options. I'm not very comfortable with color grading in post (if you have advices/tutorials/(LUTs ?), I take it!)
And especially, I'm really concerned about how to do it when the light comes from different directions all along a sequence: once the sun faces the camera, then it's on my right side, then on my back, etc.
I would guess that the color grading is brightness/contrast independant. I can easily see how these gradings are done on a photo/a linear traveling scene, but when turning around with luminosity changes ...

If you use Davinci Resolve, which is free, you can download LUTs from the Phantom 4 download page at DJI. Davinci also has many other LUTs installed and you can purchase more if you like. I can't answer all your questions regarding this as I am just getting into using them as well.

wangrinProductions · Jun 8, 2017

if you want to how what is LUT: You can follow Casey Faris for some LUT tutorials: Casey Faris
I use GroundControl LUTS, specially Falcon & Phoenix LUTS.
If you want you can download a free LUT from GC to try out: FREE DJI LUT
The rule I follow when using LUT: if you like the colors the LUT give to your footage, apply the color correction after the LUT and if you don't like the colors, apply the change before the LUT.

Hope this will help you to start...

oscaro0 · Jun 8, 2017

Thanks for your answers guys

I'm using Final Cut Pro for post/edit.
So I'm not sure the LUTs I can find on DJI can be used with FCP ..
Moreover, these LUTs seem to be tuned for footages shot in DLOG, aren't they ? Can I assume that LUTs are best used with flat D-Log footages (best than with Cinelike D for example) ?

Thanks for the links and the tips

Any idea where I can find some for FCP ?
I'd like to give it a try ..

Cheers,
Oscar

oscaro0 · Jun 19, 2017

Hello again !

Upping this post, anyone for LUTs to be used with FCPX ?

I've also purchased a ND4 filter, tested this weekend over water, the results are quite good

Cheers !

ussvertigo · Jun 20, 2017

I use manual settings due to certain conditions the auto mode can change settings in middle of a desired shot, gets frustrating. Frame your shot in hover and set camera settings, and CineD gives more detail in live view which helps me see what I'm doing, and has some latitude in post, just not as much as DLog. Depending how low you get to the water, consider turning off vision positioning, if you have a good visual reference in your circle track. I suggest this only because VP does not do well over water and can give erratic results causing unpredictable reactions. I fly low over water and close around objects all the time but position myself to visually ensure separation if that make sense.

oscaro0 · Jun 20, 2017

Hi ussvertigo

Thanks for your answer !
Actually, if I manually setup the shutter speed, in my particular case, I will sometimes be over/under/perfectly exposed since the sun will be orientated in all the different directions during a lap.
So I guess I have to accomodate to the settings changes in auto mode to get a decent exposure level .. I think it's my best move.

When I follow a wakeboarder, I set the sport mode to easily reach the 30-35km/h whatever the wind/direction I'm flying. So the VP is disabled by default. I'm about 2-5m above the water level.

Concerning the style, I've performed some tests and read a lot about it here and there on the internet.

Without any post prod, it seems that the best results are obtained with None, 000. That's what I experienced when I took the same shot comparing different styles and settings.
Another quite nice setting is Cinelike D, which gives fairly good results, but not as bright and vivid as with the None setting. It requires some post.
I found that the DLog was quite hard to treat in post ... and, after all my searches on the web, doesn't seem to add that much to your footages, even after a decent post.

Cheers,
Oscar