Realtor Using Owners Drone Pictures

So if I fly over my home and record video, upload that video as a hobby and then a screenshot is captured and used in a house listing. That would be illegal?! That sounds ludicrous!
 
So if I fly over my home and record video, upload that video as a hobby and then a screenshot is captured and used in a house listing. That would be illegal?! That sounds ludicrous!

Take your point a bit further, you post a video on YouTube and it goes viral and YouTube pays you for views you are in violation? Or perhaps you give someone permission to use your video and they use it for commercial purposes who is in violation. That is why I said this example is splitting hairs. I'm sure the FAA is not interested, nor do they have the man power to enforce every such instance. From what I see here the most rigid interpretations are coming from the people who spent the time and money to get their 333. It's like the immigrants who jumped through the loops to be here legally generally do not appreciate those who jump the fence.
 
Very true. And you will also find that the ones breaking the rules are often getting reported to the FAA by their legal brethren. Gets rid of the illegal competition. Food for thought (and discretion).


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app
 
Its just insane. I bet more than half of us can fly circles around the faa. I get they want to keep as much order as they they can but geeezez cant take a picture of a house that is up for sale. Its ridiculus..
Anyone know of a way to keep up with this such as a realtor News page or whatever..?
 
There are a few new "businesses" here in my town offering "drone photography" for real estate and surveying purposes. I have met one of the guys, and I am almost certain this guy didn't take the time (or money) to get a sport pilot license. If I understand correctly, you have to have (at minimum) the sport pilot license to get the 333 exception, am I right? How are these guys getting around it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigAl07
You're getting into the "sticky" area here. I wouldn't take any advice from an Internet forum if you think there might be the slightest doubt. Contact an attorney. Not that Al doesn't know his stuff, but I bet he wouldn't be there to pay your fine if the FAA decided it was commercial use.
Oh you're very VERY correct there. Take my advice for what you paid for it and at the end of the day it's your/their neck on the line right or wrong.

But with that being said I would almost bet a week's paycheck that if you were to contact an aviation attorney (I can give you several references) who is current and in the know they can verify what I said above. Intent of the flight is where the rubber meets the road. If the homeowner had pictures they took previously during a hobby flight and after that the house goes on the market then the Realtor can use them w/o legal problems. If the homeowner took the pics solely for the purpose of giving them to the Realtor to use then that's a violation of the FAA regulations.

I would welcome them taking the aircraft currency out of it. I would qualify if it were not for that requirement. Don't see the point of having to spend a couple thousand to rent a helicopter and CFI. There is nothing about being current that would benefit safety flying a quad. Two different animals.

While I agree that "flying and aircraft is nothing like flying a quad" the point to the PL requirement is purely about National Air Space, tower communications, and Wx issues. If you have zero training in these matters how in the world are you to know how to find what airspace you're in? How do you know who to contact if you are going to flying within X miles from an airport? Some type of "training/certification" is needed and until the FAA creates a UAS specific course the PL rating is the only thing that satisfies the requirements set forth by Congress.
 
  • Like
Reactions: snerd
There are a few new "businesses" here in my town offering "drone photography" for real estate and surveying purposes. I have met one of the guys, and I am almost certain this guy didn't take the time (or money) to get a sport pilot license. If I understand correctly, you have to have (at minimum) the sport pilot license to get the 333 exception, am I right? How are these guys getting around it?
You can be "Granted" a Section 333 Exemption without one. For instance the owner of a company can get "Granted" the 333 Exemption but in order to fly within the requirements of that 333 Exemption the Pilot In Command (at the controls of the aircraft) has to have a min of Sport Pilot rating and be CURRENT in that rating. Many MANY people have the 333 Exemption who do not have a pilot certification but they "hire" the flights out or they simply fly outside of the regulations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GMayberry
You can be "Granted" a Section 333 Exemption without one. For instance the owner of a company can get "Granted" the 333 Exemption but in order to fly within the requirements of that 333 Exemption the Pilot In Command (at the controls of the aircraft) has to have a min of Sport Pilot rating and be CURRENT in that rating. Many MANY people have the 333 Exemption who do not have a pilot certification but they "hire" the flights out or they simply fly outside of the regulations.


Yes, I should have clarified. The guy that I met was a one man operation. I understand that the business doesn't have to have a PL, just the person at the controls. I am left to assume that he is simply outside of the regulations. Oh well, thats on him! Haha


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app
 
Personally if I were a company such as a realtor I'd stay far away from done photos and videos. Real estate is pretty competitive so I'm sure agents are on the look out for their competition breaking the rules.

Intent was mentioned. I see little question that intent is not static. You could not argue your intent at the time of the photo applies no matter what the later use. If it can be shown that someone should have known that their photos/video was going to be used commercially, you open yourself up to the FAA. With these types of things, you get a bill and then need to prove it does not apply.
 
Well congratulations to me.
I love in a country where shooting an innocent animal and shooting down a drone has no consequence but taking a picture of a house is fined by 1.9 m dollars
Just awesome

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
Its just insane. I bet more than half of us can fly circles around the faa. I get they want to keep as much order as they they can but geeezez cant take a picture of a house that is up for sale. Its ridiculus..
Anyone know of a way to keep up with this such as a realtor News page or whatever..?
There are several FB pages that might be of help. One of them is "FAA Section 333 Exemption" and I'm sure there are several "Realtor" related sites. This one would be a good one to keep an eye on:
National Association of REALTORS®

NAR has been very vocal for a couple of years now about Real Estate Agents only using Section 333 Exempted operations. It's only been a few weeks since they put out a nicely made video explaining their position as well as mentioning their hopes for better regulation on this later in the year.
 
Oh you're very VERY correct there. Take my advice for what you paid for it and at the end of the day it's your/their neck on the line right or wrong.

But with that being said I would almost bet a week's paycheck that if you were to contact an aviation attorney (I can give you several references) who is current and in the know they can verify what I said above. Intent of the flight is where the rubber meets the road. If the homeowner had pictures they took previously during a hobby flight and after that the house goes on the market then the Realtor can use them w/o legal problems. If the homeowner took the pics solely for the purpose of giving them to the Realtor to use then that's a violation of the FAA regulations.



While I agree that "flying and aircraft is nothing like flying a quad" the point to the PL requirement is purely about National Air Space, tower communications, and Wx issues. If you have zero training in these matters how in the world are you to know how to find what airspace you're in? How do you know who to contact if you are going to flying within X miles from an airport? Some type of "training/certification" is needed and until the FAA creates a UAS specific course the PL rating is the only thing that satisfies the requirements set forth by Congress.

Yeah...but it is stupid that you can fly all around and take the same videos and pictures as a "hobby," but for some reason you need this knowledge to charge to take pictures of a stationary house.
 
I don't think the FAA has time to go after little people unless a big corporation is making a big fuss. I'd find it hard to believe FAA citing a teen for using his drone footage to help sell his products.

I think it's nasty realities fighting competition and they'll sabotage each other to get ahead.

Lastly, drones are new and the current laws are archaic. They'll be updated soon but the laws are designed for safety, not for keeping hobby drone pilots from making some money selling some footage. Media loves drones right now... Almost as much as people hate their privacy disturbed is people hating gun... Now there's drones with guns... Combine this with terrorism and you get secret service pressuring FAA to tighten up security in the air space. And there are safety concerns that are real. A drone will kill a pilot or even bring down a plane if it hits right. That's why DJI is adding the restrictions into the firm ware.

It's fear and money. Two driving factors that cause the government and big corporations to scramble to cover their ***. Us little guys get the squeeze. Pretty soon we will have to have tracking pods in our drones that link to FAA and or have "drone parks" for flying out drones because no where is considered safe or towns vote to lock down the hobbyists to protect the back yard sun bathers privacy. Lots of foolish people have made this sport dangerous and I'm not saying the rules will fix a **** thing but it's a reaction we are seeing here.

I was thinking about setting up a business but now I'll hold off.


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigAl07
Negative. If the home owner took the images without intent to use them in the listing then it's not considered "Commercial". Intent of flight is the key to determining intent.

Initially ANY use of an aerial image from a MR was considered "Commercial" but it's been revised to be "Intent of the flight". So if homeowner simply had pics on hand from a flight and gave them to the Realtor then that's fine. The intent of the flight was indeed a HOBBY flight.

Now if the homeowner took the images specifically for use by the Realtor then that is indeed Commercial operations due to "Intent" of the flight.

I don't have the link but I'll back you on this. I remember reading about it a few weeks back about how the FAA is trying to define some of the rules better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigAl07
If a realtor was listing a house and the owner provided a picture He/She took from a drone could it be used? Many homeowners provide pictures to realtors of when the flowers were in bloom or when the pool was not covered. If not what law is being broken.
That should be OK.
The ridiculous hair splitting, fundamentalist interpretations coming out are the kind of things you'd expect in Saudi Arabia.
They completely forget what this is all about.
The FAA's core business is aviation safety.
The FAA's focus is on the intention of the flight - they believe that commercial flight requires a higher standard of safety than recreational.
This works just fine for real planes but needs to be modified for toys like our Phantoms and the FAA is taking years to get their act together.

To get back to the original question, the photography has already been done legally - and was not done for reward or compensation.
How does prohibition of the use of these existing images, affect aviation safety?
It doesn't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigAl07
If a realtor was listing a house and the owner provided a picture He/She took from a drone could it be used? Many homeowners provide pictures to realtors of when the flowers were in bloom or when the pool was not covered. If not what law is being broken.
Are you in the USA or somewhere else?
 
Hi all, I am a licensed sport pilot and have the FAA 333 exemption so I know a little about this as I fly commercially. It is against the law to use any aerial photographs or video of real estate in the process of selling. This is all a crazy set of laws especially having to have a pilots license to fly drones commercially. This is supposed to change by 2017 Spartan you will no longer need a pilots license to fly a drone for commercial purposes, The FAA will instead require a written test and proficiency in flying test.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
OOOhhhhh... that sounds GREAT to me :)
 
So if I fly over my home and record video, upload that video as a hobby and then a screenshot is captured and used in a house listing. That would be illegal?! That sounds ludicrous!

Google Montreal man fined 1000.00 by Transport Canada.
They even consider uploading video to you tube a violation.

Welcome to Canuckistan and the hive mind of socialism and "Peace Order and Good Government"
 
I'm a professional architectural photographer primarily photographing homes for real estate listings. My company is under contract to work exclusively for one broker. The broker charges the agent for the photos and then pays me. The point here is that the agent pays a set fee that hasn't changed in years. When I'm photographing an acreage I take aerial shots with my Phantom and give them to the broker at no additional charge. Why? Because it's my hobby and I love any chance to fly. The agent does not pay any extra for me to use my drone. So, there is no law broken by me, the broker, or the real estate agent.
 

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
143,066
Messages
1,467,358
Members
104,936
Latest member
hirehackers