questioned by police event = full cooperation = no issues

[ribjig]

P4P+ hobbyist wearing $5 registration;
determined this was best spot to fly straight up
& take photos of high rises just to west with city beyond;
this corner of intersection was catty-corner to a school:

Google Maps

when school rent-a-cop yelled "hey chief" from fenced schoolyard, I just waved
& continued setting up & took off straight up 300+ ft, started taking photos;
within couple minutes, MBPD pulled up, fortunately let me continue shooting whilst
explaining & requested FAA $5 card + ID; ran ID check whilst I continued flying &
taking photos varied directions; finished & left without issue. Police main concern
was NOT flying over school-children...

Maybe if I'd spoke to rent-a-cop, no police, but I didn't want to give him
chance to tell me what I could & couldn't do on public street.
Maybe better to fly weekends near schools, but...

 

[PhantomFandom]

Glad you did the right thing and did not run into any hassles. I think most of the time the issue is that the police themselves don't have a clue about the laws when it comes to drones. Some may admit it (rarely) and others will protest and hassle you because they think you may be breaking a law. There's a YouTube video about an incident like this in NY state where the troopers were like the Keystone Cops. It was beyond laughable.

You can watch it and read the description of what happened.

Best thing is to know your rights, know the law, and be prepared.

 

[Psmith221]

Geez. What the*** is wrong with these people. A little cooperation with the police would have gone a long way. Now they have just added to the bad name and situation the rest of us legal drone hobbyist are getting.

Sounds like to me they were just out to bait the police.

Maybe next time they try this, they will go fly that drone over a military airbase. See how they like them apples.

 

[PhantomFandom]

Geez. What the ****is wrong with these people. A little cooperation with the police would have gone a long way. Now they have just added to the bad name and situation the rest of us legal drone hobbyist are getting.

Sounds like to me they were just out to bait the police.

Maybe next time they try this, they will go fly that drone over a military airbase. See how they like them apples.

Well actually there's blame on both sides here. Sure they could have presented their ID and (hopefully) been on their way. However with the attitude of these officers, there's no guarantee of that.

These people did nothing wrong and there was no reason for them to be pulled over. Therefore, they were well within their rights to question the stop. Police do not have the right to bother citizens for no reason.

 

[umanbean]

Geez. What the **** is wrong with these people. A little cooperation with the police would have gone a long way. Now they have just added to the bad name and situation the rest of us legal drone hobbyist are getting.

Sounds like to me they were just out to bait the police.

Exactly... agree 100%... that is so obvious - and I didn't even have to watch the whole thing to figure that out! A black eye on the drone community and they should be ashamed to post that on utoob.

 

[Chipmun2]

Exactly... agree 100%... that is so obvious - and I didn't even have to watch the whole thing to figure that out! A black eye on the drone community and they should be ashamed to post that on utoob.

The site of the drone flight was over an operation that breeds and supplies animals for drug research at drug companies in prehuman testing. Such sites have been broken into and damaged by “activists”. I understand the concern of the farm staff that they were being photographed for eventual damage. I recognize the concern of the drone crew that they were being stopped illegally but with the history of illegal attacks against such drug research, I can see why the police need to know who may be planning such attacks. Until we have a better system, I do not want to receive drugs for my health conditions, “that I am the first recipient, and that have not yet been tested thoroughly. “ Let’s work on better drug testing, not simply criticizing the current archaic methods. This clearly was a drone flight by people with a hidden agenda. It was not a simple matter of let’s take pictures over a nice farm.

PS, I base my comments on 40 years of drug research in 5 companies with 3 drugs in approved use for human illness!

 

[jcw7268]

The two officers in black looks like they could use another donut.

 

[RKBA]

What many people in here who are big on the importance of following the law, and rightly so, seem to always forget .... the LAW clearly states that a law-enforcement officer (sworn, power to arrest etc) cannot detain someone and require the production of ID unless they suspect and/or have evidence that an actual law has been broken and they must clearly communicate to you what that law is. Lacking that, a cop is not going to see my ID or detain me. After all, that’s the LAW.

 

[Melvoid]

Well actually there's blame on both sides here. Sure they could have presented their ID and (hopefully) been on their way. However with the attitude of these officers, there's no guarantee of that.

These people did nothing wrong and there was no reason for them to be pulled over. Therefore, they were well within their rights to question the stop. Police do not have the right to bother citizens for no reason.

WEll, as they were saying, if that "farm" is a major player in that county, for whatever reason, they probably have some pull with the police and local politics. If they had nothing to hide, they probably wouldn't have been so upset. I also know from experience, that the police don't let "civilians" stand too close and watch what's going on, but the "farm" people were not only allowed, but also reported back to.

 

[Psmith221]

That excuse will just cost you time and money. If not lead to more serious trouble. And you are wrong. It's called "Reasonable Suspicion" And it IS the Law! At least on Federally Regulated Areas and In the State of Texas.

And Just think, if you were not violating any laws, regulations, or rules or endangering the safety and privacy of others, Full cooperation would have had you back on your way before you could finish reading this.

I persanlly have already had this event occur with the Sheriff of Grayson County and The texas State Highway patrol. After educating them of my 107 License, and drone registration, It drew admiration from them, and started inquiring as to what it took to get into drones.

If I had been a salesman for DJI or some other drone manufacturer, I could sold at least one right on the spot.

 

[KMF294]

Speaking as a cop of over 20 years experience I can say it is always better to be cooperative than confrontational with the police. If you escalate something, chances are that escalation is going to be met. Police can ask for identification based upon reasonable suspicion and in some places can arrest if you fail to produce it. If a cop asks for it just give it to them. If you feel your rights were violated file a formal complaint with IA. Personally I have been at it for so long I’m not going to argue when I am in the right. I will just run the plate on your car or something, which there is no reasonable expectation of privacy in, on your car to get your name. Remember most departments require officers to log the names of the persons they spoke to just for these reasons, in case you come in complaining, they know who the cop is that you spoke to for accountability of the officer. I usually ask for I’d because it is easier to call in a license number and your friends in police scanner land don’t hear your name go over the air, they only hear a series of letters and numbers.

 

[Deleted member 29014]

Speaking as a cop of over 20 years experience I can say it is always better to be cooperative than confrontational with the police. If you escalate something, chances are that escalation is going to be met. Police can ask for identification based upon reasonable suspicion and in some places can arrest if you fail to produce it. If a cop asks for it just give it to them. If you feel your rights were violated file a formal complaint with IA. Personally I have been at it for so long I’m not going to argue when I am in the right. I will just run the plate on your car or something, which there is no reasonable expectation of privacy in, on your car to get your name. Remember most departments require officers to log the names of the persons they spoke to just for these reasons, in case you come in complaining, they know who the cop is that you spoke to for accountability of the officer. I usually ask for I’d because it is easier to call in a license number and your friends in police scanner land don’t hear your name go over the air, they only hear a series of letters and numbers.

Bingo! 32 years here. Never argue with cops, it just makes them mad and then they will give you the opportunity to educate them about the Constitution from the back seat on the way to jail, for "contempt of cop." As I advise all my friends and family; just be nice and write everything down and file the complaint later.

 

[PhantomFandom]

That excuse will just cost you time and money. If not lead to more serious trouble. And you are wrong. It's called "Reasonable Suspicion" And it IS the Law! At least on Federally Regulated Areas and In the State of Texas.

And Just think, if you were not violating any laws, regulations, or rules or endangering the safety and privacy of others, Full cooperation would have had you back on your way before you could finish reading this.

I persanlly have already had this event occur with the Sheriff of Grayson County and The texas State Highway patrol. After educating them of my 107 License, and drone registration, It drew admiration from them, and started inquiring as to what it took to get into drones.

If I had been a salesman for DJI or some other drone manufacturer, I could sold at least one right on the spot.

The key words in your statement were "reasonable suspicion" and there was NONE in this case. The driver of the vehicle knew the laws of drone flying and the laws of road stops in New York. When he asked what he was suspected of doing, the officers had no answer. Thus there could be no reasonable suspicion. There has to be a reason for being pulled over.

I'm not saying that the driver was totally right either. He could have shown his ID, and explained he was flying his drone legally as per all laws and regulations. As I stated before, there's blame on both sides.

 

[PhantomFandom]

Speaking as a cop of over 20 years experience I can say it is always better to be cooperative than confrontational with the police. If you escalate something, chances are that escalation is going to be met. Police can ask for identification based upon reasonable suspicion and in some places can arrest if you fail to produce it. If a cop asks for it just give it to them. If you feel your rights were violated file a formal complaint with IA. Personally I have been at it for so long I’m not going to argue when I am in the right. I will just run the plate on your car or something, which there is no reasonable expectation of privacy in, on your car to get your name. Remember most departments require officers to log the names of the persons they spoke to just for these reasons, in case you come in complaining, they know who the cop is that you spoke to for accountability of the officer. I usually ask for I’d because it is easier to call in a license number and your friends in police scanner land don’t hear your name go over the air, they only hear a series of letters and numbers.

I see and understand your very valid points here. However we do live in a free and open democracy where we the citizens have rights. If we let police pull over anyone without a valid reason, then we quickly slide into a police state. Who wants to go through the hassle, time, and effort of filing a complaint after the fact especially when the police were wrong and it is known that it is extremely difficult to win in such cases where it is a citizen's word against that of a police officer?

I for one will always cooperate and do whatever an officer asks if pulled over, simply because you can't win in this situation. The officer is in the position of power and authority and a citizen cannot contest that at a roadside stop.

 

[RKBA]

Never argue with cops, it just makes them mad and then they will give you the opportunity to educate them about the Constitution from the back seat on the way to jail, for "contempt of cop."

This is rich! We have a ticket writer who just admitted that unless a person submits to all demands regardless of legal justification, they will arrest you.... so tell us, what statute exactly is “contempt of cop”??? Or do you just make something up on your way to booking? “Resisting arrest is always a good catch all. Yeah, let’s use that”

Once everyone started carrying a video camera in their pockets or on their Dash, that must’ve really cramped your style. You never know where those pesky things are hidden.

 

[KMF294]

This is rich! We have a ticket writer who just admitted that unless a person submits to all demands regardless of legal justification, they will arrest you.... so tell us, what statute exactly is “contempt of cop”??? Or do you just make something up on your way to booking? “Resisting arrest is always a good catch all. Yeah, let’s use that”

Once everyone started carrying a video camera in their pockets or on their Dash, that must’ve really cramped your style. You never know where those pesky things are hidden.

Again speaking as a cop of some tenure I firmly support both dash as body cameras on police. Partly because unlike all the videos that appear everywhere they will show the entire event not just the portions that inflame the situation. Secondly, it is another tool to weed out the bad seeds amongst the police ranks so that the good and honest cops are not vilified constantly.

To the point at hand, if you are flying and filming around potentially sensitive areas as a responsible pilot you should expect and be prepared for questions from authorities. We as the police have been trained that those who will do violence against these targets (schools, research centers, etc) do a significant amount of advance planning before they strike. People are going to call the police reporting a “suspicious person” flying a drone when they see you in an area like this and a cop or two is going to be dispatched. Option 1 is you cooperate and give them your FAA paperwork an ID and they realize your an average Joe enjoying your hobby and move on. They may even shift gears and engage you in conversation which helps in the long run the next time someone calls on you when they clear the call without even needing to talk to you. Option 2 is you refuse to cooperate citing your rights, not knowing what the police have been sent for, and their suspicion is heightened thus giving more rise to reasonable suspicion. The report would read “Officer x dispatched to smith elementary school following a report by school security of a suspicious individual on the grounds with a flying object apparently filming the school and children. Officer x attempted to encounter the individual who refused to cooperate and became argumentative and confrontational with officer x, escalating the situation.......” Remember that just because you know your not doing anything wrong, doesn’t mean that the person that called reported it as such. Let the officer do their job and part ways peacefully. That way everyone wins. You can keep flying, probably without interruption again in that jurisdiction, the cop clears the call and explains to the caller your not doing anything wrong and is then off to a nice hot cup of coffee.

My last point is that drones are a relatively new thing for the public. As we all know people tend to over react to them. Think of it this way, hunting has been around since the beginning of time and people still call he police on law abiding and licensed hunters every season reporting masked men with guns in the woods. Police show up, check their licenses, ID to verify they match the hunters license, tell them to be safe, and send them on their way.

 

[TR Ganey]

I see and understand your very valid points here. However we do live in a free and open democracy where we the citizens have rights. If we let police pull over anyone without a valid reason, then we quickly slide into a police state. Who wants to go through the hassle, time, and effort of filing a complaint after the fact especially when the police were wrong and it is known that it is extremely difficult to win in such cases where it is a citizen's word against that of a police officer?

I for one will always cooperate and do whatever an officer asks if pulled over, simply because you can't win in this situation. The officer is in the position of power and authority and a citizen cannot contest that at a roadside stop.

Actually we in the U.S.A. live in a constitutional republic not a democracy.

I've been a member of L.E. for over 20yrs and there is one thing that I can assure you of, you will not win an argument with an officer on the side of the road. File your complaint and prepare for your day in court. Hopefully "if" your rights have been violated the officer will be reprimanded and will learn from the experience and hopefully the city will have to pay your lawyers fees. I am not for living in a "police" state any more than the next guy but when officers are given a call they are responsible to see it to an end. Trust me that they had rather be cruising around looking for serious criminals than interviewing you about your drone. jes my .o2

 

[RKBA]

Again speaking as a cop of some tenure I firmly support both dash as body cameras on police. Partly because unlike all the videos that appear everywhere they will show the entire event not just the portions that inflame the situation. Secondly, it is another tool to weed out the bad seeds amongst the police ranks so that the good and honest cops are not vilified constantly.

To the point at hand, if you are flying and filming around potentially sensitive areas as a responsible pilot you should expect and be prepared for questions from authorities. We as the police have been trained that those who will do violence against these targets (schools, research centers, etc) do a significant amount of advance planning before they strike. People are going to call the police reporting a “suspicious person” flying a drone when they see you in an area like this and a cop or two is going to be dispatched. Option 1 is you cooperate and give them your FAA paperwork an ID and they realize your an average Joe enjoying your hobby and move on. They may even shift gears and engage you in conversation which helps in the long run the next time someone calls on you when they clear the call without even needing to talk to you. Option 2 is you refuse to cooperate citing your rights, not knowing what the police have been sent for, and their suspicion is heightened thus giving more rise to reasonable suspicion. The report would read “Officer x dispatched to smith elementary school following a report by school security of a suspicious individual on the grounds with a flying object apparently filming the school and children. Officer x attempted to encounter the individual who refused to cooperate and became argumentative and confrontational with officer x, escalating the situation.......” Remember that just because you know your not doing anything wrong, doesn’t mean that the person that called reported it as such. Let the officer do their job and part ways peacefully. That way everyone wins. You can keep flying, probably without interruption again in that jurisdiction, the cop clears the call and explains to the caller your not doing anything wrong and is then off to a nice hot cup of coffee.

My last point is that drones are a relatively new thing for the public. As we all know people tend to over react to them. Think of it this way, hunting has been around since the beginning of time and people still call he police on law abiding and licensed hunters every season reporting masked men with guns in the woods. Police show up, check their licenses, ID to verify they match the hunters license, tell them to be safe, and send them on their way.

I am not going to get into the usual endless legal back-and-forth and tits for tats. They’re boring at this point when it comes to drones. I will just address the general issue of citizen interaction with sworn law-enforcement. First off, speaking for myself, I take my responsibility to know the law as best I can and understand my duty to conduct myself within the law very seriously. I have no interest in creating a confrontational or hostile situation with anyone let alone a police officer. I operate in an industry that is highly regulated and under the constant scrutiny of law-enforcement so I understand how the system works. I have a very good relationship with the law enforcement that I regularly deal with in my business. I respect them and they respect me. When it comes to my personal activities, I make choices. One of those choices is that I do not interact with police any more than I have to. A police officer is always welcome to ask me all the questions they want and I am free not to answer them. If they have witnessed me committing a crime of have other evidence that I did so (witnesses etc) then they can, and should, place me under arrest and read me my rights. In that situation, you and I both know that nothing I would say would keep that from happening. As for the innocuous and friendly “show me your id” request, unless I am detained ie a traffic stop etc, I choose to politely decline. I have no interest in having my personal information being recorded when I have broken no law. If I have broken a law then see above (cite me or arrest me, read rights etc). As a sworn police officer you know this is how the system works. If it makes you “mad” then so be it. It’s not my job to do your job.

 

[BigAl07]

This is rich! We have a ticket writer who just admitted that unless a person submits to all demands regardless of legal justification, they will arrest you.... so tell us, what statute exactly is “contempt of cop”??? Or do you just make something up on your way to booking? “Resisting arrest is always a good catch all. Yeah, let’s use that”

Once everyone started carrying a video camera in their pockets or on their Dash, that must’ve really cramped your style. You never know where those pesky things are hidden.

Think about it like this... are you willing to back up what you're saying and PAY your $$ if someone takes your advice and ends up on the wrong side of the law? Your words on a forum can (and wrongfully so) be taken as gospel so think about EVERYTHING You say and ask yourself, "If I happen to be wrong am I man enough to back up my words?" It's all too easy to be a keyboard warrior but remember some reading this may make the poor decision to take your advice and test the law.

In what world is it remotely advisable to intentionally go against any and every Law Enforcement Officer in the land? That's absolutely HORRIBLE and reckless advice to say the least.

 

[BigAl07]

Actually we in the U.S.A. live in a constitutional republic not a democracy.

I've been a member of L.E. for over 20yrs and there is one thing that I can assure you of, you will not win an argument with an officer on the side of the road. File your complaint and prepare for your day in court. Hopefully "if" your rights have been violated the officer will be reprimanded and will learn from the experience and hopefully the city will have to pay your lawyers fees. I am not for living in a "police" state any more than the next guy but when officers are given a call they are responsible to see it to an end. Trust me that they had rather be cruising around looking for serious criminals than interviewing you about your drone. jes my .o2

VERY well said all across the board.