Police handcuff, detain and ticket Part 107 Pilot under aircraft ordinance that does not apply

[xspwhite]

Correct, the parks have no control over a drone that flys across the park. They can only limit someone from taking off and landing there. This would probably also eliminate the property owner of any liability from damages that the drone might cause. IMO...I think this whole thing boils down to a safety issue. It starts out as a couple of people entering the park to take a drone flight, but then as time goes on, you might have 30 people flying drones all over the park.

So let's say a drone operator has a battery drop, and his/her drone makes an emergency landing on the top of a 100-foot pine tree. A month later, a family of people sets up a tent and starts camping underneath this same tree; then that evening there is a wind storm, and the drone blows out of the tree just as one the campers is stepping out of the tent to go to the bathroom or something. If the camper is then struck in the head with the drone, who's liable for that? I realize that campers do sign liability forms, but does a park really need that kind of publicity?

Not to mention that most parks take the safety of the park goers very seriously. Most of the rules are geared with safty in mind.

Not to mention, if a ranger has knowledge that there is a drone in the tree, then they have the obligation to close off that entire area with caution tape, until they can figure out a way to bring it down.

 

[Nightwolf]

I believe once the drone stops moving and is no longer under the operator's control the liability is no longer the pilot's. I know if something falls off of your car you are only liable until it stops moving. Then it is road debris and it is the responsibility of drivers to avoid it.

 

[Deleted member 29014]

I believe you made a leap of declaration of xsp's statement.

xsp said: "I work as a ranger at a county park here in MI, and we do not allow the flying of drones or the operation of any other remote control vehicles."

A (Park) Ranger would have jurisdiction within the grounds.
If the individual was withing the grounds then there is 'legal control' of any conduct therein.

It would appear you made an assumption akin to leaving the park and searching for an operator outside the park flying over it.

I could not make such a leap from what he said.

What leap? I offered facts. Not looking for a fight, thank you, have better things to do.

 

[xspwhite]

I believe once the drone stops moving and is no longer under the operator's control the liability is no longer the pilot's. I know if something falls off of your car you are only liable until it stops moving. Then it is road debris and it is the responsibility of drivers to avoid it.

On the contrary, if following the law. You have a FAA Registration # printed on the top of your drone. So if YOUR drone is stuck in a tree, it is your responsibility to get it out of that tree before someone gets hurt. If the drone falls from the tree, and harms somebody, then you would be held liable. This could mean being sued or even doing jail time.

 

[msinger]

"Am I being detained?" is a legitimate question

Those are famous last words for people in YouTube videos who like to taunt cops. Many of those people end up going to the police station even if they haven't done anything illegal.

 

[bletzinger]

Interesting thread. Agree pilot was rude. I would respect park rules, however, one other thought - How many people have been injured in parks by drones or drones falling out of trees vs. larceny, murder, rape, robbery, assault, burglary, disorderly conduct, public indecency etc. I'm guessing there are more important laws or rules to focus on based on the statistics. I don't think keeping drones out of local parks makes much of a difference to public welfare. Perhaps the park rule should be violating existing airport or national park NFZs, FAA or state rules and obnoxious behavior (probably already a rule), not flying respectfully.

 

[Russ43Phantom]

My experience (Jurisdiction: Railroad vs. FAA ... is this similar to National Parks) suggests that flying in any urban or suburban community can, unjustly, result in a very bad experience. Either you get a long list of sign-offs from authorities or property owners or you risk defending yourself against many adversaries. It is not enough to be flying completely within FAA rules.

I love photography and follow many Vloggers. They all use drones to document their photographic adventures. BUT ... they are all doing landscape photography is unpopulated, backwoods, backcountry locations. That seems to be the bitter truth for drone pilots ... do not disturb drone phobic citizens ... or else! Another truism today is you will be considered guilty until proven innocent.

 

[Phantom Pirate]

Well, as I see it. He could have folded up his tent and left, and taken up his corals with the park administrator's office during his spare time. But he chose to stand there and argue with a couple of beat cops that dont know the law, and probably didnt care to learn it. What the officers do know, is how to handcuff people and take them to jail, and let the prosecutors office sort out the rest. I believe its against the law to disobey a direct order from a police officer. So he should of simply said "I will leave sir, but I am going to appeal this matter to a higher authority."

If he would of done that; he would have avoided a ride in a squad car, and not of been without his drone for a whole month. So basically, he needs to forget about what he learned in part 107 training, and study some people skills.

I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of this thread. No need. I'll probably get a lot of feedback, but, ya know....... as xspwhite pointed out in other words....... "You can force your rights on other people, and most times you'll be fine. Force your rights to a police officer and you'll likely find out how painful, costly and time consuming exercising your silly rights really is!"

 

[Kristina Fowler]

I've often heard the line about "better to ask forgiveness than permission". I think you're inviting trouble if you subscribe to that mentality. I think you should incorporate a common sense approach to these situations. You probably know in advance if there's a higher than normal probability of being confronted by L.E.O., whether it be local police, park rangers, security personnel, or others. In all but rare cases, I check in with whomever I think is in charge and explain why I'm there and create a transparent and cooperative approach to the situation. I even go so far as telling them that if there are any objections, I'll simply fold up my tent and leave. They usually give me the green light. If they decline and it's that important, you can always seek permission in writing at a later date.

Going against the grain just because you can won't get you far, and you're only inviting trouble and at the same time tying up public resources (cops are paid from your tax dollars). Those that do it simply to defy authority - picking a fight - need to take a time out and broaden their perspective. If you think it's ok to blame L.E.O. for drone law ignorance, consider your knowledge of the laws governing their day to day operations and the opportunistic, spring-loaded culture that aspires to one-up the very people whose job it is to keep us insulated from the bad guys. Don't die stupid....

 

[Steve76063]

I just dug out my registration info and see that it expired January this year! Does anyone know how to re-register, and if I get to keep the same number?

 

[N017RW]

Log into your (FAA registration) account.

FAADroneZone

 

[msinger]

I just dug out my registration info and see that it expired January this year! Does anyone know how to re-register, and if I get to keep the same number?

Log into your account at the top, right here and you'll see it has been extended for another year.

 

[LARA images]

I went to a state park here in Virginia, and shortly after takeoff with my 2nd battery, I had a ranger tell me I couldn't fly drones in state parks. I truly didn't know, but you know what I did?
I thanked him for the information, and told him I'm landing it right away, and I left.

When I got home, I checked the Virginia Parks and Wildlife regs, and sure enough, no flights without prior written approval in state parks. (I emailed AirMap that they need to mark state parks as NFZs but they haven't done that yet).

 

[Phil Tuggle]

... I had a ranger tell me I couldn't fly drones in state parks. I truly didn't know, but you know what I did?
I thanked him for the information, and told him I'm landing it right away, and I left....When I got home, I checked the Virginia Parks and Wildlife regs...

Kudos - THAT is exactly what the Pilot should have done, especially when it quickly became clear the officers were not going to budge. Debating an overpowering (and outnumbering) authority who is truly convinced he or she is in the right is usually not a good idea. Leave, go do your research, and then react using the proper channels that will either support you or the other guy.

Just an unfortunate situation. Really sorry the officers overreacted big time. Such a waste of resources. Bummer.

 

[Catnlion]

Just some quick copy/paste. I think it would help defuse a situation by having the rules handy. Proves I care about the rules.

Tips for Responsible Hobby or Recreational Use of Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) or "Drones" on National Forest Systems Lands
Know where to fly

Individuals and organizations may fly UAS for hobby or recreational purposes in compliance with the Special Rule for Model Aircraft(link is external)(Section 336 of Public Law 112-95).

UAS must be flown below 400 feet and remain clear of surrounding obstacles.

UAS are considered to be both “motorized equipment” and “mechanical transport” as such they cannot take off from, land in, or be operated from congressionally designated Wilderness Areas.

UAS are not permitted to fly in areas that have “Temporary Flight Restrictions” (TFR) in place. You can search the FAA website for current TFRs by clicking here(link is external).

Never fly your UAS over or in close proximity to any fire operation (wildfire or prescribed). UAS flights over fire operations disrupt aerial firefighting operations and create hazardous situations.

The Forest Service regularly flies aircraft at low altitudes to perform natural resource management. It is the UAS Operator’s responsibility to be aware of these flights and take the steps necessary to avoid them. Contact the local Ranger District Office or the FAA for scheduled flights in the area.

Protect Wildlife & the Environment

Do not fly over congressionally designated Wilderness Areas or Primitive Areas as many people seek these places for the opportunities for solitude and quiet that they provide.

Do not fly over or near wildlife as this can create stress that may cause significant harm, and even death. Intentional disturbance of animals during breeding, nesting, rearing of young, or other critical life history functions is not allowed unless approved as research or management.

Follow state wildlife and fish agency regulations on the use of UAS to search for or detect wildlife and fish.

Launch the UAS more than 100 meters (328 feet) from wildlife. Do not approach animals or birds vertically with the UAS.

Fly safely, Stay in control

Keep your UAS within your visual line of sight at all times.

Take lessons and learn to operate your UAS safely.

Remain well clear of and do not interfere with manned aircraft operations.

Fly your UAS at least 5 miles from an airport or backcountry airstrip.

UAS should not be flown over or in close proximity to populated and noise-sensitive areas, such as campgrounds, trail heads, and visitor centers.

Obey all privacy laws.

Follow Federal Aviation Association (FAA) guidelines

Ensure that you comply with all FAA regulations and guidance for flying your UAS. The FAA has authority over all airspace. Information on FAA regulations is available here(link is external).

Do not fly any aircraft weighing more than 55 pounds (total weight, including payload and fuel source).











From:

Tips for Responsible Hobby or Recreational Use of Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) or "Drones" on National Forest Systems Lands | US Forest Service





State Drone Laws in Arizona
These are drone laws that apply to the entire state of Arizona, and were created by the Arizona State Legislature.

According to the Arizona Department of Transportation and the Arizona State Legislature, Arizona has one state-wide law concerning the use of drones in the state.

SB 1449 // 2016

SB 1449 includes the following regulations concerning drones:

• UAS cannot interfere with police, firefighters, or manned aircraft.
• Flying a drone in “dangerous proximity” to a person or property is defined as Disorderly Conduct.
• UAS cannot fly within 500 feet horizontally or 250 feet vertically of any critical facility. These include but are not limited to oil and gas facilities, water treatment facilities, power plants, courthouses, military installations, and hospitals.
• Cities and towns in the state of Arizona that contain more than one park must allow drones in at least one of them.
• Cities and towns in Arizona are prohibited from creating their own drone laws. The Arizona State Legislature claims pre-emption for the creation of any regulations concerning drones.

There are many types of airspace restrictions in the United States. Below is a list of restrictions that commonly affect UAS flights, including:

Stadiums and Sporting Events

Near Airports

Security Sensitive Airspace Restrictions

Restricted or Special Use Airspace

Washington, DC

I'm confused. If a city or town has more than one park they must allow drones in one. That means they can pass laws to ban drones in the rest. On the other hand, they may not pass their own drone laws. Which is it?

 

[N017RW]

I'm confused. If a city or town has more than one park they must allow drones in one. That means they can pass laws to ban drones in the rest. On the other hand, they may not pass their own drone laws. Which is it?

Can you cite your source or a link to verify the statement I put in bold above?
(outside of Arizona).

 

[xspwhite]

I've often heard the line about "better to ask forgiveness than permission". I think you're inviting trouble if you subscribe to that mentality. I think you should incorporate a common sense approach to these situations. You probably know in advance if there's a higher than normal probability of being confronted by L.E.O., whether it be local police, park rangers, security personnel, or others. In all but rare cases, I check in with whomever I think is in charge and explain why I'm there and create a transparent and cooperative approach to the situation. I even go so far as telling them that if there are any objections, I'll simply fold up my tent and leave. They usually give me the green light. If they decline and it's that important, you can always seek permission in writing at a later date.

Going against the grain just because you can won't get you far, and you're only inviting trouble and at the same time tying up public resources (cops are paid from your tax dollars). Those that do it simply to defy authority - picking a fight - need to take a time out and broaden their perspective. If you think it's ok to blame L.E.O. for drone law ignorance, consider your knowledge of the laws governing their day to day operations and the opportunistic, spring-loaded culture that aspires to one-up the very people whose job it is to keep us insulated from the bad guys. Don't die stupid....

I think this is a good approach. By getting right with the head hancho, and explaining your position of what you want to accomplish, will often times get you there without unwanted hassle.

 

[Catnlion]

Can you cite your source or a link to verify the statement I put in bold above?
(outside of Arizona).

That is AZ law and the text is in the post above. I don't know about any other state.

 

[N017RW]

That is AZ law and the text is in the post above. I don't know about any other state.

Thanks. I couldn't find any info in my state.
Thought you might have.

 

[Ansia]

Thanks. I couldn't find any info in my state.
Thought you might have.

@skymonkey posted the other day of drone laws by state. Perhaps ask him about yours.