Phantom v1.1.1 lifts her legs!
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I am having a hell of a time finding a local hobby store that carries graphite/carbon fiber/fiberglass rods.
A little backround: I used to teach hang gliding and dual/quad line stunt kite flying. I also performed indoor kite workshops and did indoor demos at Disney World for the new millennium celebration they had in Orlando. I also strapped folks into a hang gliding harness with a hokey simulator so they could "experience" what it was like (trying to sell lessons for the company I worked for)
Anyway- before I digress as I do, I have several thousand dollars worth of stunt kites... all in event bags- dual line, quad line... multi -cellular, parafoils... sky junk (laundry s we call it) like turbines and giant spinning socks... I have dual box wing deltas with over 12 feet wingspans that will lift small children in the air (we used to fly cases of beer off the 250lb spectra line with the laundry) and part of my specialty was repairing broken kites that "just broke" as the tourons would say. (I used to joke and make them repeat it- I would say, "You mean all by itself? It was flying and suddenly just flew apart?" while they squirmed as repairs were a service with a fee. The company did not police that much, and many of the parts were gimmes from the manufacturers, so I was always very generous and I liked meeting people and fixing the kites.
I had a very large inventory of spars- solid, hollow, all sorts of diameters. I had ferrules and notches and a myriad of spectra line with all the colors of the rainbow. I could tie larkshead knots faster than a fisherman- I used to insist I could fly anything with enough wind, and the exact harness with the proper point of attack on the wind... Chuck Norris of kite building.
...what I would give for that inventory right now. I cannot find any local vendor, and I need to physically stand there and assemble various diameters of graphite tubes to find the combination to build out these retractable legs. I believe some of that small fuel line that airplane and gas engine guys use (like what Great Planes has in the little packs) will slide over the 3mm shafts on these retracts- I need to find some hollow tubes that will slide over that, and t fittings that will allow a perpendicular connection at the bottom so I can attach skids. I saw a vid on youtube from that hpi guy where he built retracts just like mine (I am not so original) and he has that stuff. I do not want to frankenstein my kites.
Who has links or ideas on how I might source this material? I have been out of the kite business for well over 20 years. (I met Francis Rogallo, and have a special Delta Wing kite with his signature on it as I ran the Nags Head Kitty Hawk Kites store, and several others along the Outerbanks of NC)
A little backround: I used to teach hang gliding and dual/quad line stunt kite flying. I also performed indoor kite workshops and did indoor demos at Disney World for the new millennium celebration they had in Orlando. I also strapped folks into a hang gliding harness with a hokey simulator so they could "experience" what it was like (trying to sell lessons for the company I worked for)
Anyway- before I digress as I do, I have several thousand dollars worth of stunt kites... all in event bags- dual line, quad line... multi -cellular, parafoils... sky junk (laundry s we call it) like turbines and giant spinning socks... I have dual box wing deltas with over 12 feet wingspans that will lift small children in the air (we used to fly cases of beer off the 250lb spectra line with the laundry) and part of my specialty was repairing broken kites that "just broke" as the tourons would say. (I used to joke and make them repeat it- I would say, "You mean all by itself? It was flying and suddenly just flew apart?" while they squirmed as repairs were a service with a fee. The company did not police that much, and many of the parts were gimmes from the manufacturers, so I was always very generous and I liked meeting people and fixing the kites.
I had a very large inventory of spars- solid, hollow, all sorts of diameters. I had ferrules and notches and a myriad of spectra line with all the colors of the rainbow. I could tie larkshead knots faster than a fisherman- I used to insist I could fly anything with enough wind, and the exact harness with the proper point of attack on the wind... Chuck Norris of kite building.
...what I would give for that inventory right now. I cannot find any local vendor, and I need to physically stand there and assemble various diameters of graphite tubes to find the combination to build out these retractable legs. I believe some of that small fuel line that airplane and gas engine guys use (like what Great Planes has in the little packs) will slide over the 3mm shafts on these retracts- I need to find some hollow tubes that will slide over that, and t fittings that will allow a perpendicular connection at the bottom so I can attach skids. I saw a vid on youtube from that hpi guy where he built retracts just like mine (I am not so original) and he has that stuff. I do not want to frankenstein my kites.
Who has links or ideas on how I might source this material? I have been out of the kite business for well over 20 years. (I met Francis Rogallo, and have a special Delta Wing kite with his signature on it as I ran the Nags Head Kitty Hawk Kites store, and several others along the Outerbanks of NC)
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No pics- just a quick mention:
I have found all of my leg and skid parts, I am waiting on a couple of kite parts to get here, and I am trying to get a trip in to a hobby store to check on some r/c truck suspension parts- I want to see what the oil filled shocks, mounts, and spring sets and seats weigh to see if they are worth the effort to make an honest suspension on these arms for a spongy landing. I am sure they will not be worth the weight, but I want to see because it would only take a minute to convert these retracts into a true suspension rig for a 550- in fact, my skinny modded retracts with the extra sleeved graphite tube would hold up a fully loaded 550 and they are weighing in at just over 26 grams for each retract assembly- that is a grand total of 52 grams for the whole thing including all cf tabs and plates and the bolts. I know that is a lot of weight when considering a Phantom with gopro and gimbal, but it ain't as bad as I thought it would be... and I could probably redesign those plates to shave a few grams... nylon bolts would be strong enough- all the force is distributed properly... a graphite shaft into the retract would save a bunch, but I am only willing to invest so much time in this as it is a lark.
It may take another week, but that video is coming... I don't want to post up a bench vid with the legs moving as that is boring... I want it in the air, and on a nice day.
I have found all of my leg and skid parts, I am waiting on a couple of kite parts to get here, and I am trying to get a trip in to a hobby store to check on some r/c truck suspension parts- I want to see what the oil filled shocks, mounts, and spring sets and seats weigh to see if they are worth the effort to make an honest suspension on these arms for a spongy landing. I am sure they will not be worth the weight, but I want to see because it would only take a minute to convert these retracts into a true suspension rig for a 550- in fact, my skinny modded retracts with the extra sleeved graphite tube would hold up a fully loaded 550 and they are weighing in at just over 26 grams for each retract assembly- that is a grand total of 52 grams for the whole thing including all cf tabs and plates and the bolts. I know that is a lot of weight when considering a Phantom with gopro and gimbal, but it ain't as bad as I thought it would be... and I could probably redesign those plates to shave a few grams... nylon bolts would be strong enough- all the force is distributed properly... a graphite shaft into the retract would save a bunch, but I am only willing to invest so much time in this as it is a lark.
It may take another week, but that video is coming... I don't want to post up a bench vid with the legs moving as that is boring... I want it in the air, and on a nice day.
"I am having a hell of a time finding a local hobby store that carries graphite/carbon fiber/fiberglass rods."
I have used carbon fiber arrow shafts for a lot of things. If you have a Cabella's or a Gander Mtn. anywhere near you might go by and see if what they have will work. My local gander Mtn. has a pile of broken shafts in the service dept.
I have used carbon fiber arrow shafts for a lot of things. If you have a Cabella's or a Gander Mtn. anywhere near you might go by and see if what they have will work. My local gander Mtn. has a pile of broken shafts in the service dept.
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Mofroggy said:
Brilliant! I never considered that option- there are at least 2 archery pro shops within 10 miles of here.
Thank you.
I have found some wholesale and retail kite part suppliers- I built them, and I know the type of folks who are into that hobby... sport kites will get some money invested but most folks are cheap and will not spend a fortune on small abs knocks and t- fittings.
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Parts are trickling in from around the globe... mainly Hong Kong. I would truly be obliged if one of you fine folks in the UK that lives anywhere near an outfit known as The Highwaymen who dabble in the kite hobby (they must also be fans of Mr. Noyes) who reside in the Hinckley Leicestershire neighborhood would give me a moment... they have specifically what I need and I do not believe they do international sales... and I need to talk to them about a particular t-fitting they carry.
So as I wait for parts to finish this project- revisions and mods within mods happen- simply to pass time. I ran too many extra wires for my radio's ability with the Arris 3000 (enroute) as I would need 2 more channels. But I will leave it for now.
I cannot even stand the Phantom now until the kite parts come in as the only thing left are the skids- but I need sturdy fittings for that as that is where all the stress will be.
Regarding stress- I compensated... kind of. I liberated some parts from my r/c truck bin and found a wonderful set of suspension springs- the mounts for the truck they came from were not applicable- so I made my own out of a few pieces of graphite hollow spar, and a piece of plastic fuel line from the hobby store that all fit together and make a "shock" As the pictures show- downward pressure is dealt with and the weight of the Phantom loaded will compress the shocks about halfway... they wouldn't bottom out unless it was slammed into the ground.
The problem is, once the quad takes off, the skids will slip from the retract shaft- I can fix that by putting a small rubber band with lark's head above the nylon washer (which would be glued to the outer graphite shaft) and attached under the 2 screw mounts on the retract. That destroys the aesthetic though. Shown here is how it slips away when weight is released as in take off:
Also- after weighing the retracts with all but the skids, and without the springs (and whatever measure used to keep them on) each retract is at 37grams... which was a huge disappointment. The fact is- I haven't even flown it and it is already going to go beyond the intended weight I had hoped or just to it depending on battery used. They are too heavy to be practical unless you do not use a gimbal- then they are pointless bar the cool factor... and I have watched them go up and down so many times they aren't really that anymore either.
I press on though, and it is lighter than the last version as the other landing gear weighed a ton! But that arris is going to put more weight on than this gimbal I am sure... this is a heavy 2 axis goodluckbuy but I do not think it is as heavy as the 3000 is.
It is what it is... and I am only the better for it as I am having fun.
Here is a little note for any finder of my quad if it flies away... I am not really counting on it making a difference- but it may- my contact info is on the other side offering a reward if returned with all gear intact.
So as I wait for parts to finish this project- revisions and mods within mods happen- simply to pass time. I ran too many extra wires for my radio's ability with the Arris 3000 (enroute) as I would need 2 more channels. But I will leave it for now.
I cannot even stand the Phantom now until the kite parts come in as the only thing left are the skids- but I need sturdy fittings for that as that is where all the stress will be.
Regarding stress- I compensated... kind of. I liberated some parts from my r/c truck bin and found a wonderful set of suspension springs- the mounts for the truck they came from were not applicable- so I made my own out of a few pieces of graphite hollow spar, and a piece of plastic fuel line from the hobby store that all fit together and make a "shock" As the pictures show- downward pressure is dealt with and the weight of the Phantom loaded will compress the shocks about halfway... they wouldn't bottom out unless it was slammed into the ground.
The problem is, once the quad takes off, the skids will slip from the retract shaft- I can fix that by putting a small rubber band with lark's head above the nylon washer (which would be glued to the outer graphite shaft) and attached under the 2 screw mounts on the retract. That destroys the aesthetic though. Shown here is how it slips away when weight is released as in take off:
Also- after weighing the retracts with all but the skids, and without the springs (and whatever measure used to keep them on) each retract is at 37grams... which was a huge disappointment. The fact is- I haven't even flown it and it is already going to go beyond the intended weight I had hoped or just to it depending on battery used. They are too heavy to be practical unless you do not use a gimbal- then they are pointless bar the cool factor... and I have watched them go up and down so many times they aren't really that anymore either.
I press on though, and it is lighter than the last version as the other landing gear weighed a ton! But that arris is going to put more weight on than this gimbal I am sure... this is a heavy 2 axis goodluckbuy but I do not think it is as heavy as the 3000 is.
It is what it is... and I am only the better for it as I am having fun.
Here is a little note for any finder of my quad if it flies away... I am not really counting on it making a difference- but it may- my contact info is on the other side offering a reward if returned with all gear intact.
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The Arris finally came today- so the fpv build went back on hold, and the Phantom was brought back front and center.
I used 2 small rubber grommets as vibration isolators on the top plate mount to the Phantom- maybe not needed, but over-engineering at its most basic.
You can see here they compress nicely- the plate is firm- it does not sway- it will give slightly if I push on it.
On her back, you can see I have the retractable legs mounted. I have not permanently fixed them as I want to be certain before the final cementing- they are held tight with tape for the initial test flight. The legs are made from 2 pieces of graphite tube and the clear fuel line and all fit very snug so just a drop of glue will secure them. Please excuse the wires- I made mistakes in original wiring for the gimbal and now I need to redo it- I ran too many, and in the wrong config.
No power on the gimbal yet, but checking clearances and testing integrity of the retracts- I stacked 2 maddog 2700's, and a large flat piece of aluminum on top of the Phantom to add weight to see if the retracts would give... and of course they held- they are rated for over 2kilos... and I won't come near that. I am pleased as just by lifting (I will weigh this and post the results) I can tell immediately it is much lighter than the other setup.
Hopefully the next post will be a test flight with the retracts operating for your viewing pleasure... or mine.
I used 2 small rubber grommets as vibration isolators on the top plate mount to the Phantom- maybe not needed, but over-engineering at its most basic.
You can see here they compress nicely- the plate is firm- it does not sway- it will give slightly if I push on it.
On her back, you can see I have the retractable legs mounted. I have not permanently fixed them as I want to be certain before the final cementing- they are held tight with tape for the initial test flight. The legs are made from 2 pieces of graphite tube and the clear fuel line and all fit very snug so just a drop of glue will secure them. Please excuse the wires- I made mistakes in original wiring for the gimbal and now I need to redo it- I ran too many, and in the wrong config.
No power on the gimbal yet, but checking clearances and testing integrity of the retracts- I stacked 2 maddog 2700's, and a large flat piece of aluminum on top of the Phantom to add weight to see if the retracts would give... and of course they held- they are rated for over 2kilos... and I won't come near that. I am pleased as just by lifting (I will weigh this and post the results) I can tell immediately it is much lighter than the other setup.
Hopefully the next post will be a test flight with the retracts operating for your viewing pleasure... or mine.
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OI Photography said:
...euphemism? In my thread? Shame. :lol:
Thank you- I am quite proud of her.
I just finished hooking up and testing the Arris (much obliged Gizmo!) and I have pitch and roll on my side variables... I have the pitch pmixed with yaw on a switch, and the roll is pmixed with elevator for a slight tilt down on full throttle to keep props from view (will need tweaking after flight tests) Yaw and mode options currently not active- but I will probably play with those after I get a shoot out of the way- I am waiting for the next good day as I have a project and the current setup (same as Gizmos) is more than adequate for.
Retracts operational
I will add- after working with that goodluckbuy for so long, and coming to love it, I am astounded at the complete and total differences between them. The Arris is worlds better... so much smoother and so much more precise and responsive... and TUNABLE! I had limited tuning on my glb as it was not legitimate alexmos and I had to hack it up to make it work.
I am back in love with my Phantom again. All that is left is to twist up these stock motors on some goofball flying (gimbal removed for that day) and then pull them out and put the t-motors in. After that- this project is finished, and I will be on to the BAH Mini H fpv hotrod I am building. Now that is some seriously cool stuff.
Yes, hurry up and get your main sled done so you can get to that homemade café racer you've been dreaming about 
Any idea what the total weight is w/the retracts and the CM3000?
Any idea what the total weight is w/the retracts and the CM3000?
I apologize if I missed it somewhere, but what is the purpose of the zip ties through the grommets? Is that so if they become detached, the gimbal does not detach from the craft?
Thank you for the info! Awesome project! I can't wait to see video!
Thank you for the info! Awesome project! I can't wait to see video!
Certainly not to detract from this great thread. Firstly, I much admire the efforts that are being undertaken. I've found the following video showing retractable legs on a Phantom 1. if you go to about 4:48 (although the whole video is worth a watch and some of his others). Shows you what he's done.
have fun
Bmews
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWJHsa7Amxw[/youtube]
have fun
Bmews
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWJHsa7Amxw[/youtube]
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OI Photography said:
I am hoping to fine tune all the connections and make tidy today. My first step will be to determine AUW with the maddog 2700- I will post that for certain as I am dying to know... gotta find a scale that will work. My local post office will help there.
catrost said:
You are right on the money with that wise presumption- I swapped out the hard grommets for the super soft that came with the Arris. I have plans to see if they hold up on some snap maneuvers and did not want to pull the gimbal apart in mid air and tug power and signal leads in the process...these soft grommets are very spongy but I think they will hold. Obliged at the kind remarks.
BMEWS said:
Thank you- I had not seen that particular vid before- I will say that the retracts I saw featured on the Phantom in that vid are seriously over engineered in my opinion- that Phantom must weight a metric ton. Not sure why he used 4 sets when 2 were adequate- also the battery pak... way overkill... I power mine off the flight battery.
Thank you for the compliment.
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Just off the scales and....
*sigh* Not such great news:
Phantom v1.1.1
600mw boscam vtx
Frky TFR8SB Rx
Arris CM3000 gimbal
custom fabricated Retracts
Maddog 2700mAh lipo
9443 Carbon Fiber Vision Style Props
gopro Hero 3+
______________________
AUW= 1644.3g
*without Maddog= 1162.3g
Next will be flight tests- the weather is glorius today, but the breezes are intermittant- I want a full calibration on this bird, a complete compass dance or 2 (it locks now fine on the bench, but I want it tight) and I will look into double checking what all can be trimmed down. I know now that I can probably pull as much as 50g rather easily on some things- maybe another 50 on the retracts if a proper single piece mount were fabricated out of light weight plastic, and if I were really dedicated like ElGuano, I could make the Rx naked, trim out a lot of little bits of wire lengths, and swap out some screws for nylon maybe? I don't know... but there is room for making her a little leaner.
So... was anybody taking bets on AUW? Who won?
*sigh* Not such great news:
Phantom v1.1.1
600mw boscam vtx
Frky TFR8SB Rx
Arris CM3000 gimbal
custom fabricated Retracts
Maddog 2700mAh lipo
9443 Carbon Fiber Vision Style Props
gopro Hero 3+
______________________
AUW= 1644.3g
*without Maddog= 1162.3g
Next will be flight tests- the weather is glorius today, but the breezes are intermittant- I want a full calibration on this bird, a complete compass dance or 2 (it locks now fine on the bench, but I want it tight) and I will look into double checking what all can be trimmed down. I know now that I can probably pull as much as 50g rather easily on some things- maybe another 50 on the retracts if a proper single piece mount were fabricated out of light weight plastic, and if I were really dedicated like ElGuano, I could make the Rx naked, trim out a lot of little bits of wire lengths, and swap out some screws for nylon maybe? I don't know... but there is room for making her a little leaner.
So... was anybody taking bets on AUW? Who won?
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OI Photography said:
I had to edit twice- props and gopro should make that difference up. ...no wait- that doesn't change a thing? I just forgot to mention them... the weights are the same.
weights quoted to me from the postal worker who read the scales was:
3lbs 0.10oz with maddog
2lbs 9oz without... I messed up the conversin and used .9oz it looks like. I am to busy to do math... and obviously I suck at it.
Hiway said:
Well, boy do I have some good news for you
3lb .1oz = 1361g
Btw I picked up a simple digital kitchen scale for this kind of stuff on the workbench, Phantom's landing gear fits on it perfectly (and it looks like yours probably would too): http://www.amazon.com/WeighMax-Digital- ... B005T98N6A
I believe this is the one ElGuano uses: http://www.amazon.com/OXO-Grips-5-Pound ... chen+scale
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