Overview of AeroScope, a New DJI System to Track and Identify Drones

With The Birds · Oct 27, 2017

Slickvolt said:
Oh by the way, to help you with fantasy, here is reality...CIA FACTBOOK ON CHINA, UPDATED ONLY 2 weeks ago...take note..China is STILL OFFICIALLY A COMMUNIST STATE...Facts are pesky things
The World Factbook — Central Intelligence Agency

Nobody is saying that China does not identify as a Communist country. You are changing your own argument, seemingly to avoid assessing the ridiculousness of your original statement, I.e. “Every Chinese “company” is OWNED and Overseen by the Chinese Govt...that’s what communism is”. There is nothing else to say other than you obviously have little or no idea what you are talking about.

David Kraft · Oct 27, 2017

schlepprock said:
I may just sell my P4 and start building racing drones. That way all of my play is on my property.

There are what, 5 RC transmitters? If the nsa is in your hard drive, how long ago do you think they’ve been on every protocol?

anotherlab · Oct 27, 2017

Slickvolt said:
Oh by the way, to help you with fantasy, here is reality...CIA FACTBOOK ON CHINA, UPDATED ONLY 2 weeks ago...take note..China is STILL OFFICIALLY A COMMUNIST STATE...Facts are pesky things
The World Factbook — Central Intelligence Agency

If you are going to use a site like the The World Factbook to back up your position, you might want to read it all the way through. Let's start with the section on economy. Here's the first paragraph:

The World Factbook said:
Since the late 1970s, China has moved from a closed, centrally planned system to a more market-oriented one that plays a major global role. China has implemented reforms in a gradualist fashion, resulting in efficiency gains that have contributed to a more than tenfold increase in GDP since 1978. Reforms began with the phaseout of collectivized agriculture, and expanded to include the gradual liberalization of prices, fiscal decentralization, increased autonomy for state enterprises, growth of the private sector, development of stock markets and a modern banking system, and opening to foreign trade and investment. China continues to pursue an industrial policy, state-support of key sectors, and a restrictive investment regime. Measured on a purchasing power parity (PPP) basis that adjusts for price differences, China in 2016 stood as the largest economy in the world, surpassing the US in 2014 for the first time in modern history. China became the world's largest exporter in 2010, and the largest trading nation in 2013. Still, China's per capita income is below the world average.

If that is too much to read, just go with this sentence:

The World Factbook said:
Since the late 1970s, China has moved from a closed, centrally planned system to a more market-oriented one that plays a major global role.

No one is arguing that the Peoples Republic of China is officially a communist state. But it's a unique mixture of state run fiscal policy and free market industry. And has been for quite a while. To say that DJI is run by or controlled by the government without any facts (pesky or otherwise) to back it up is just wrong.

I don't know if you saw the memo, but communism failed. About the only classic communist centrally run economy left is North Korea. And it's not working that well for them. Russia made the transition from communism to kleptocracy in a remarkably short amount of time. Vietnam is now where Nike sneakers come from. Cuba is about ten years away from turning into 1950's Cuba. But I digress.

Let's look at this from another angle. China is the world's largest exporter of goods. That's one of those "pesky facts" that's quite easy to verify, you can even use the The World Factbook to show that. That's a double-edged sword. When a nation state is dependent on other nation states buying their products. then the first nation state's economy is directly tied to the other nation states's economies. That's macro economics 101. In other words, if the US economy stumbles or we stop buying Chinese goods, the Chinese economy also stumbles (along with Walmart). With that in mind, it would be self-limiting move for the Chinese government to force DJI to implement policies that turn consumers against the company. There is no benefit to China to having DJI being used as a tool for espionage.

It's been nearly 15 years since I've been in China. The China that I saw then was a China with a tight grip around the banking system, but wide open for business. You can cling to outdated notions of the "Red Menace", but it's not that black and white anymore.

sar104 · Oct 28, 2017

anotherlab said:
If you are going to use a site like the The World Factbook to back up your position, you might want to read it all the way through. Let's start with the section on economy. Here's the first paragraph:

If that is too much to read, just go with this sentence:

No one is arguing that the Peoples Republic of China is officially a communist state. But it's a unique mixture of state run fiscal policy and free market industry. And has been for quite a while. To say that DJI is run by or controlled by the government without any facts (pesky or otherwise) to back it up is just wrong.

I don't know if you saw the memo, but communism failed. About the only classic communist centrally run economy left is North Korea. And it's not working that well for them. Russia made the transition from communism to kleptocracy in a remarkably short amount of time. Vietnam is now where Nike sneakers come from. Cuba is about ten years away from turning into 1950's Cuba. But I digress.

Let's look at this from another angle. China is the world's largest exporter of goods. That's one of those "pesky facts" that's quite easy to verify, you can even use the The World Factbook to show that. That's a double-edged sword. When a nation state is dependent on other nation states buying their products. then the first nation state's economy is directly tied to the other nation states's economies. That's macro economics 101. In other words, if the US economy stumbles or we stop buying Chinese goods, the Chinese economy also stumbles (along with Walmart). With that in mind, it would be self-limiting move for the Chinese government to force DJI to implement policies that turn consumers against the company. There is no benefit to China to having DJI being used as a tool for espionage.

It's been nearly 15 years since I've been in China. The China that I saw then was a China with a tight grip around the banking system, but wide open for business. You can cling to outdated notions of the "Red Menace", but it's not that black and white anymore.

That's a good assessment of the situation. I'd question just one statement:

"There is no benefit to China to having DJI being used as a tool for espionage."

While the state certainly does not own or control DJI, it is still able to exert considerable pressure, similar to but greater than the US Government pressure on tech companies to divulge customer data. That was one of the primary, albeit unconfirmed, concerns in the recent bans on DJI equipment by DOE, DOD etc. I don't think we can rule it out completely, although I doubt that their targets of interest would be private citizens.

anotherlab · Oct 28, 2017

sar104 said:
That's a good assessment of the situation. I'd question just one statement:

"There is no benefit to China to having DJI being used as a tool for espionage."

While the state certainly does not own or control DJI, it is still able to exert considerable pressure, similar to but greater than the US Government pressure on tech companies to divulge customer data. That was one of the primary, albeit unconfirmed, concerns in the recent bans on DJI equipment by DOE, DOD etc. I don't think we can rule it out completely, although I doubt that their targets of interest would be private citizens.

The Chinese government can and probably does apply pressure of some sort to DJI. I just don't think it has much to do with data collection. It gets back to what value do they get from it, and does that value out weigh the cost? If China wants to see what is going on at a US military base, they'll just use their satellites. Just like we do.

Right after the DOD grounded the DJI drones, DJI announced that an update would let you be able to run the drones with out any data going out over the Internet. They got sloppy and got caught.

Slickvolt · Oct 28, 2017

With The Birds said:
Nobody is saying that China does not identify as a Communist country. You are changing your own argument, seemingly to avoid assessing the ridiculousness of your original statement, I.e. “Every Chinese “company” is OWNED and Overseen by the Chinese Govt...that’s what communism is”. There is nothing else to say other than you obviously have little or no idea what you are talking about.

China isn’t identifying a# anything..CIA evaluation declares them communist...you know...the experts.

Meta4 · Oct 28, 2017

Slickvolt said:
China isn’t identifying a# anything..CIA evaluation declares them communist...you know...the experts.

No-one has disputed that China is a communist country.
The issue is that you have a cold war dinosaur idea of what that might have meant back in the 1960s and it's totally wrong nowdays.
You've heard from people that have actually been there that it's nothing like you imagine.
Some things change with the passing of time, perhaps it's time for you to.

Slickvolt · Oct 28, 2017

Meta4 said:
No-one has disputed that China is a communist country.
The issue is that you have a cold war dinosaur idea of what that might have meant back in the 1960s and it's totally wrong nowdays.
You've heard from people that have actually been there that it's nothing like you imagine.
Some things change with the passing of time, perhaps it's time for you to.

You’re wrong, somebody literally just stated China is no longer communist. I gave facts from CIA dated only a week ago...facts trump fantasy opinion every time...so sorry

Meta4 · Oct 28, 2017

Slickvolt said:
You’re wrong, somebody literally just stated China is no longer communist. I gave facts from CIA dated only a week ago...facts trump fantasy opinion every time...so sorry

Do you want to check what you just wrote?
It makes no sense at all.

With The Birds · Oct 28, 2017

Slickvolt said:
China isn’t identifying a# anything..CIA evaluation declares them communist...you know...the experts.

China declares themselves Communist, we all know that- come back when you can present us with anything to support your earlier assertion that every company in China is controlled by the Government. That’s where you started and it’s the fallacy we have been addressing. All this later carry on is just a smokescreen. Your position here has no basis in fact. Put simply, you are wrong.

sar104 · Oct 28, 2017

anotherlab said:
The Chinese government can and probably does apply pressure of some sort to DJI. I just don't think it has much to do with data collection. It gets back to what value do they get from it, and does that value out weigh the cost? If China wants to see what is going on at a US military base, they'll just use their satellites. Just like we do.

Right after the DOD grounded the DJI drones, DJI announced that an update would let you be able to run the drones with out any data going out over the Internet. They got sloppy and got caught.

I think that you are probably correct, but "probably" was not good enough for government use. There was no direct evidence that DJI was passing on data and it's not clear how valuable telemetry might be anyway, but the possibility was enough. Plenty of intelligence operations have been built on equally tenuous prospects and, given enough data even of limited quality, it's sometimes possible to put together useful intelligence.

anotherlab · Oct 28, 2017

Slickvolt said:
You’re wrong, somebody literally just stated China is no longer communist. I gave facts from CIA dated only a week ago...facts trump fantasy opinion every time...so sorry

You literally wrote "Every Chinese company is Chinese Government" earlier in this thread. You didn't "give facts from CIA", you provided a link to a site maintained by the CIA that actually says the opposite. For some reason you keep harping on that someone in this thread said that China is no longer communist (a point that everyone is agreeing with), but yet provide no proof for your own statement that government controls every company.

"You’re entitled to your own opinions. You’re not entitled to your own facts" - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

P4PCommander · Oct 28, 2017

sar104 said:
And it's also not likely that someone will reproduce your P4P and commit a crime. What's your point?

It's also not likely anyone would break into your home and steal your Guns either and use them in a Crime!! I'd say you need more KOOL AID!!

P4PCommander · Oct 28, 2017

Slickvolt said:
You seem unaware that the Chinese ACTUALLY DID HACK THE US GOVT, MILLIONS AFFECTED. So with that fact, it seems they are VERY interested. Try google...it’s wonderful.

MY GOD! Why did you tell him about Google!!!! Now everybody will be using it!!!! LOL

P4PCommander · Oct 28, 2017

sar104 said:
What ID data would that be? The drone serial number? What are "they" going to do with that?

My God do I really need to explain that!! you should take up Fishing, that doesn't require a Computer or a Drone...

sar104 · Oct 28, 2017

P4PCommander said:
My God do I really need to explain that!! you should take up Fishing, that doesn't require a Computer or a Drone...

I think the problem is that you are incapable of explaining it, mostly because it makes no sense.

Slickvolt · Oct 28, 2017

With The Birds said:
Nobody is saying that China does not identify as a Communist country. You are changing your own argument, seemingly to avoid assessing the ridiculousness of your original statement, I.e. “Every Chinese “company” is OWNED and Overseen by the Chinese Govt...that’s what communism is”. There is nothing else to say other than you obviously have little or no idea what you are talking about.

Every Chinese company is NOW owned by the Chinese Govt. PERIOD. That is the condition of Communism. CIA could not list them as a communist nation if they did not meet full definition of COMMUNISM. Socialism is what your describing, where nation has minders in every factory and a significant say in operations, but not ownership...communism is the most oppressive...full say, full ownership, total authoritarianism of every single person, thoughts and writings...total lack of freedom.

Slickvolt · Oct 28, 2017

Meta4 said:
Do you want to check what you just wrote?
It makes no sense at all.

CIA agrees with my position exactly...it seems your position...not so much...lol.This is so easy when I have the facts...

Slickvolt · Oct 28, 2017

With The Birds said:
China declares themselves Communist, we all know that- come back when you can present us with anything to support your earlier assertion that every company in China is controlled by the Government. That’s where you started and it’s the fallacy we have been addressing. All this later carry on is just a smokescreen. Your position here has no basis in fact. Put simply, you are wrong.

Here, communism 101...
Economic Systems: Capitalism, Communism, and Socialism

If you read you will see the distinction between the economic systems of Capitalism, Socialism and Communism, are a sliding scale of private ownership, to joint ownership, to total Government ownership...it IS the deciding factor which system is being utilized.