Near miss

[aviator67]

My Near Miss
I was flying my Phantom 4 over Lake Conroe, TX, on Jan 30, 2017, between 150-200 feet when I heard a small plane approaching. It was just luck that I was able to record the plane nearly missing my quad copter.

Dennis,

There are plenty of irresponsible GA pilots out there. He very likely was operating illegally, though it's probably not as bad as you think. He had to be at least 500 feet above those houses when he flew over them, at that looks congested to me so he should have been at 1000' AGL, but if there were no persons, vessels, vehicles or structures on that lake, he could legally descend below 500 feet while over open water. (See Part 91.119c below) He obviously didn't see you and fortunately it didn't end up with your drone in his windshield.

On the other hand, looking at your video and comparing it to the same location in Google Earth, appears to indicate that you may have also been above 400 feet. The altitude in Google Earth required to get the same perspective as your position in the video was 544 feet AGL. Perhaps you were mistaken and using metric rather than imperial units?

Either way, glad it worked out ok for both of you.

---------------------

Plane 1

• aviator67
• Jul 6, 2017

Image of plane in question. Is he legal?

Plane 2

• aviator67
• Jul 6, 2017

Google Earth simulation

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§ 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(a)Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

(b)Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c)Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

(d)Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface -

(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each personoperating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA; and

(2) A powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section.

[Doc. No. 18334, 54 FR 34294, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91-311, 75 FR 5223, Feb. 1, 2010]

 

[Dennis Frantz]

Dennis,

There are plenty of irresponsible GA pilots out there. He very likely was operating illegally, though it's probably not as bad as you think. He had to be at least 500 feet above those houses when he flew over them, at that looks congested to me so he should have been at 1000' AGL, but if there were no persons, vessels, vehicles or structures on that lake, he could legally descend below 500 feet while over open water. (See Part 91.119c below) He obviously didn't see you and fortunately it didn't end up with your drone in his windshield.

On the other hand, looking at your video and comparing it to the same location in Google Earth, appears to indicate that you may have also been above 400 feet. The altitude in Google Earth required to get the same perspective as your position in the video was 544 feet AGL. Perhaps you were mistaken and using metric rather than imperial units?

Either way, glad it worked out ok for both of you.

---------------------

Plane 1

• aviator67
• Jul 6, 2017

Image of plane in question. Is he legal?

Plane 2

• aviator67
• Jul 6, 2017

Google Earth simulation

----------------------

§ 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(a)Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

(b)Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c)Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

(d)Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface -

(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each personoperating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA; and

(2) A powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section.

[Doc. No. 18334, 54 FR 34294, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91-311, 75 FR 5223, Feb. 1, 2010]

Thank you for your response and the information. While I’m sure you were trying to help, I assure you that I was not flying above 400 feet. Trying to estimate my altitude comparing the video and a perspective from Google Earth can be fraught with error. I like to fly from this peninsula on the lake because I don’t have to worry about hitting high obstacles but for the sake of debate, let’s say that I was flying at 544 feet as you estimate. Looking at my video, one can clearly see the plane flying below my drone, which means he was probably flying below 500 feet. The lake is densely populated with housing as most popular lakes are. What does that say about this small plane pilot? I don’t think that I was the one endangering lives as my drone never flew over a house. As I said before, maybe this pilot was following the rules, but that doesn’t mean he was not being careless

 

[aviator67]

No problem, I agree with you. As I said "He very likely was operating illegally"

It was a surprising event to you and I suspect he was probably unaware of the near miss. I've flown a light airplane over Lake Granby in Colorado at about 500 feet, but that was back in 1982, a long time before drones were even possible and all we had to lookout for was other airplanes. A lot of general aviation pilots aren't thinking about drones in their airspace, even if it's not usually their airspace below 500'

All I'm saying is that the consequences of a collision with a GA airplane traveling at 120 knots would at best a dented $50,000 aircraft and at worst, it might result in a crash that could kill the pilot and any passengers. At that point, it doesn't matter who was legal or not. As drone pilots, we are the lowest animal on the aviation food chain and we have a responsibility to avoid absolutely everyone. Even the fools.

Please don't be offended, I'm just thinking out loud and I agree about Google Earth, I'm not confident in their "eye altitude" figure either. Just making conversation.

Cheers!

 

[Dennis Frantz]

No problem, I agree with you. As I said "He very likely was operating illegally"

It was a surprising event to you and I suspect he was probably unaware of the near miss. I've flown a light airplane over Lake Granby in Colorado at about 500 feet, but that was back in 1982, a long time before drones were even possible and all we had to lookout for was other airplanes. A lot of general aviation pilots aren't thinking about drones in their airspace, even if it's not usually their airspace below 500'

All I'm saying is that the consequences of a collision with a GA airplane traveling at 120 knots would at best a dented $50,000 aircraft and at worst, it might result in a crash that could kill the pilot and any passengers. At that point, it doesn't matter who was legal or not. As drone pilots, we are the lowest animal on the aviation food chain and we have a responsibility to avoid absolutely everyone. Even the fools.

Please don't be offended, I'm just thinking out loud and I agree about Google Earth, I'm not confident in their "eye altitude" figure either. Just making conversation.

Cheers!

No problem. You are right, these forums are great for good conversation.
It must be wonderful, being a small plane pilot. I used to watch the helicopters taking off and landing when I served in Vietnam and always wanted to fly one.
After the Army, I got my degree in computer science and got to travel the world as a computer geek with someone else doing all the flying.
Now, at least with my drones, I get to do some of the flying.
Thanks again for the information and good conversation.
Dennis

 

[aviator67]

[QUOTE="It must be wonderful, being a small plane pilot."[/QUOTE]
I've always loved flying, I solo'ed a Cessna 150 when I was 16. But almost 4 years ago now, I had to have valve replacement surgery on my heart and now I can't get a medical certificate. I've found FPV flying to be the next best thing. It looks like we have another thing in common.