More powerfull repeater?

[BenDronePilot]

I've been too busy lately to continue my testing. Plus, this forum spent a little time in the dumper (as someone put it, it was like the wild west with no moderator.)

BenDronePilot - Which type of diversity is being used (Ex: Switching, Selecting, Combining, Dynamic Control)? I've not been able to prove one way or another. Also, while I agree with you, how do you know for sure that MIMO is not being used? The perplexing thing to me about the repeater is that if it were a simple diversity setup (Ex: Switching) then I'm confused on the setup. 1) They are using two 1/4 wave antennas right next to each other. I don't see how it would really matter which one was being used, basically they will be receiving the same signal. 2) For the simple diversity setup to have real effect, the two antennas need to be separated by one full wavelength (4.92 inches.) If they are using combining or a more sophisticated system like MIMO, replacing only one of the antennas would defeat the potential value of the system (would still work, just not as well as intended.)

There must be something wrong with your testing (or your patch antenna) everything else being equal, it does not make sense that a 5dbi omni would out perform a 9dbi directional. The only thing I can think of is that you are somehow flying outside the beamwidth of the 9dbi directional or you have it mounted horizontal rather than vertically (90deg out of phase). Which brings me to my final observation. In your picture you have your onmi antenna horizontal rather than vertical. Is this the way you are using it? If so, and if you are getting that range, something is very strange (like maybe the antennas in the camera somehow were installed 90deg out of phase), in which case try rotating the directional antenna too.

BTW, I see in your screen shots that you are flying sideways, when does the signal cut out if pointed away from you? My guess is 1500 to 1800 feet?

This is with a 12dbi patch (flying sideways after 1800 feet to keep solid video). It actually went further, but no point in showing a screen shot as the distance changes to "N/A" after 3299 feet.:


BTW, your doing great, it's really good to see testing with omni's. Thank you.

Based on testing and comments from other users in this thread they came to the conclusion that it's a diversity setup. Though yes it doesn't make sense to have two antennas so close together in a diversity setup that uses only one antenna or the other so it's possible it may be combined signal.

In the test I show my screen shot of yes, the picture shows the basic orientation I was using when flying, and yes as you can see I did achieve 2,533 foot range using only an 8dbi omni. I flew sideways to see the Maximum potential. I can tell you for sure that it will work reliably in any orientation well past 1,700 feet but I need to do some more test flights beyond the one I had a chance to do to be 100% sure or it's max range on any orientation. The did many more flights using the 5dbi omni directional and did not see any apparent range differences with it either pointed straight up or sideways. When using the antenna pointed on it's side I also had the repeater's flat side facing the general direction of the Phantom as well to maximize results.

For the TPLink 9dbi directional antenna, I did have it in the correct orientation to maximize vertical field of view though it doesn't really matter which way it's oriented as long as you have it pointed at the Phantom, which I did best I could. I will try it again without the antenna mounted on top of the repeater to see if the results change.

The 3,200 foot range you got with your 12dbi antenna is nice. Though I'm sure not so compact as the omni option. If you think about it are you really going to be needing to fly so far away on an every day basis? Isn't it just as practical to just simply take off from a closer position should you want a view of a particular object? Granted I guess that's not always possible if the object in question is over a lake or behind a fence where you can't take off from a closer position. Anyway it's still fun to push the range envelope and see what we can get out of these things short of any major modification. Cause at that point you may as well just get a regular Phantom 2 and 5.8ghz FirstPersonView setup.

On a side note we all need to write DJI to fix the app radar to adjust for people who can fly past the normal 300meter setup, and of course the 3200 foot limit you mentioned that the app reports.

 

[themosttoys]

Based on testing and comments from other users in this thread they came to the conclusion that it's a diversity setup. Though yes it doesn't make sense to have two antennas so close together in a diversity setup that uses only one antenna or the other so it's possible it may be combined signal.

In the test I show my screen shot of yes, the picture shows the basic orientation I was using when flying, and yes as you can see I did achieve 2,533 foot range using only an 8dbi omni. I flew sideways to see the Maximum potential. I can tell you for sure that it will work reliably in any orientation well past 1,700 feet but I need to do some more test flights beyond the one I had a chance to do to be 100% sure or it's max range on any orientation. The did many more flights using the 5dbi omni directional and did not see any apparent range differences with it either pointed straight up or sideways. When using the antenna pointed on it's side I also had the repeater's flat side facing the general direction of the Phantom as well to maximize results.

For the TPLink 9dbi directional antenna, I did have it in the correct orientation to maximize vertical field of view though it doesn't really matter which way it's oriented as long as you have it pointed at the Phantom, which I did best I could. I will try it again without the antenna mounted on top of the repeater to see if the results change.

The 3,200 foot range you got with your 12dbi antenna is nice. Though I'm sure not so compact as the omni option. If you think about it are you really going to be needing to fly so far away on an every day basis? Isn't it just as practical to just simply take off from a closer position should you want a view of a particular object? Granted I guess that's not always possible if the object in question is over a lake or behind a fence where you can't take off from a closer position. Anyway it's still fun to push the range envelope and see what we can get out of these things short of any major modification. Cause at that point you may as well just get a regular Phantom 2 and 5.8ghz FirstPersonView setup.

I agree on all points. The 12dbi antenna I was using, while certainly not as compact as your omni's is not all that big (4"x4"x4" http://www.l-com.com/wireless-antenna-2 ... connector#) It's basically the same as the TPLink 9dbi only deeper. I also have the TPLinks, just found this one to perform like the TPLink 14dbi (big mama) at the relative size of the 9dbi. I do agree that I will not be using it every day. I'm actually pretty happy with the maximum range of the stock setup if it would work reliably with the P2V pointing in any direction. It just drives me batty when I rotate and lose signal. When I have the chance I have an 800mw amplifier that I'm going to add to the P2V and start testing antennas on that. I'm convinced that to get the results I want I need to modify the P2V (just a little.)
Thanks

 

[BenDronePilot]

I agree on all points. The 12dbi antenna I was using, while certainly not as compact as your omni's is not all that big (4"x4"x4" http://www.l-com.com/wireless-antenna-2 ... connector#) It's basically the same as the TPLink 9dbi only deeper. I also have the TPLinks, just found this one to perform like the TPLink 14dbi (big mama) at the relative size of the 9dbi. I do agree that I will not be using it every day. I'm actually pretty happy with the maximum range of the stock setup if it would work reliably with the P2V pointing in any direction. It just drives me batty when I rotate and lose signal. When I have the chance I have an 800mw amplifier that I'm going to add to the P2V and start testing antennas on that. I'm convinced that to get the results I want I need to modify the P2V (just a little.)
Thanks

If you were generally happy with the Phantom 2 Visions stock FPV range which for me was around 1,000 feet but not happy it wouldn't work well at that range at any orientation then you'd be more than happy using either of the omni directional antennas I tested as I have reliable operation at any angle with either of those antennas from beyond / well beyond that range while keeping everything light weight and easy to handle. The best part about this mod is you can easily switch between antennas any given time or day depending on your flying preference that day. And yeah I agree if you were to upgrade one of the visions wifi antennas that would give you a substantial additional gain in overall range as well as functionality at different orientations.

Oh and I think I may return that TPLink 9dbi directional antenna and get that 12dbi patch antenna you have instead, for days when I want to fly far out. I do like those results you got with it. Very nice.

 

[themosttoys]

If you were generally happy with the Phantom 2 Visions stock FPV range which for me was around 1,000 feet but not happy it wouldn't work well at that range at any orientation then you'd be more than happy using either of the omni directional antennas I tested as I have reliable operation at any angle with either of those antennas from beyond / well beyond that range while keeping everything light weight and easy to handle. The best part about this mod is you can easily switch between antennas any given time or day depending on your flying preference that day. And yeah I agree if you were to upgrade one of the visions wifi antennas that would give you a substantial additional gain in overall range as well as functionality at different orientations.

Oh and I think I may return that TPLink 9dbi directional antenna and get that 12dbi patch antenna you have instead, for days when I want to fly far out. I do like those results you got with it. Very nice.

It's funny how our experiences are so different. I have a bunch of omni antenna's, from nubs all the way to 9.5dbi's (that in other testing are very good antenna's.) However in my case (admittedly with limited testing of only a flight or two per antenna) I did not see results that were a significant improvement over stock. Maybe I'll give the omni's another try, but I still believe that it is the configuration of the antenna's on the P2V that is the problem. The signal is being fired out the sides, using 1/4 wave directional patch antennas. Realistically there's only so much that can be done on the RX side if the signal is not being sent your way. I'm actually pretty impressed with what they achieved.

 

[NCSG]

My setup with the TP-Link and velcro. Over 3200 ft. easy. Then I got scared and turned it around. Thanks for all the info guys.

 

[Noël]

3200 ft @ 34% battery, and over water.... You are insane [FACE SCREAMING IN FEAR]

 

[NCSG]

3200 ft @ 34% battery, and over water.... You are insane [FACE SCREAMING IN FEAR]

Lol u reminded me. I barely made it back to land. Seconds to spare.

 

[Backgammon]

I have noticed a few of you guys going 2000 ft or more. Looking at the pics of your setup, I only see changes to the repeater. How are you guys going so far with no change to the stock tx antenna ?

 

[FPV col]

I have noticed a few of you guys going 2000 ft or more. Looking at the pics of your setup, I only see changes to the repeater. How are you guys going so far with no change to the stock tx antenna ?

For me I am using the stock TX on the higher power mode and can get 3500 ft with no problems.. It will be the WiFi that's bugs out first.

 

[Pull_Up]

That's interesting Col, as I always lose control signal first at around 1000ft. Having said that I'm never usually in a completely open area without trees around, etc, and at the moment its fine for my purposes, but it would interesting to know why you can get more range out of your stock controller than I can, both set to the "optimum" mode I assume (and that reference is for the benfit of Ofcom ) unless it is purely a geography issue.

 

[Backgammon]

Glad to hear that because my stock only gets 1000 ft on a good day. I was beginning to think I got a bad tx. I will try the 9db and cloverleaf setup to see what the improvements will be.

 

[FPV col]

That's interesting Col, as I always lose control signal first at around 1000ft. Having said that I'm never usually in a completely open area without trees around, etc, and at the moment its fine for my purposes, but it would interesting to know why you can get more range out of your stock controller than I can, both set to the "optimum" mode I assume (and that reference is for the benfit of Ofcom ) unless it is purely a geography issue.

Yes it is strange that some get good range and some very poor, and it was the 1000ft marker that I was losing WiFi decided to upgrade to patch antenna and now have more than enough range for my purpose.. I was thinking of working a mod on the TX but to be honest it has more range than I need, seems to be either TX range issue or just the wifi... I was lucky it was wifi and an easy fix, very strange as you are also in optimum mode and fly in mostly open area :?

 

[themosttoys]

Yup, it is strange that there is such a wide gap in controller range (unless some are in CE mode).

1.1 miles on controller : viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6446

The flip side to that is Line Of Site as here I lost it in 800 feet : viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6616

Both same stock controller antenna.

 

[FPV col]

Yup, it is strange that there is such a wide gap in controller range (unless some are in CE mode).

1.1 miles on controller : viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6446

The flip side to that is Line Of Site as here I lost it in 800 feet : viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6616

Both same stock controller antenna.

Yes.. After watching your water tower video I will be very cautious about obstacles in the line of site, that looked close :shock:

 

[Burdett]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and fairly new to the P2V. I've read through most of this thread and I'm still confused about something. Inside the wifi range extender the two connections. I've seen some say using both will benefit and others say only the left one. I watched two different YouTube vid where first guy Ben7seven7 just did the left connector and added a TP-Link 5dbi omni directional the other jwuman used both connectors and added two TP-Link 5dbi omni directional antennas. In this thread or another I've seen someone add one directional and one omni directional. Because super long range is not that important to me and I like the idea of extending my range without all the bulk. I'm inclined to try which ever of these mods is best. Any help with this question will be much appreciated.

 

[BenDronePilot]

That's interesting Col, as I always lose control signal first at around 1000ft. Having said that I'm never usually in a completely open area without trees around, etc, and at the moment its fine for my purposes, but it would interesting to know why you can get more range out of your stock controller than I can, both set to the "optimum" mode I assume (and that reference is for the benfit of Ofcom ) unless it is purely a geography issue.

Are you talking about 1,000 feet vertical (straight up) or 1,000 feet away horizontal when you say you controller cuts out at around 1,000 feet. Using my 5dbi omni I've had my Phantom at 1,800 feet distance and 780 feet up with no loss of control signal. With my 8dbi omni I've tested to 2,534 feet away at 317 foot altitude with a steady control signal. The only time I've run into range issues with control has been when testing vertical range. At a couple hundred feet away give or take I hit a max altitude between 1,200 and 1,300 feet before control signal would have problems but wifi was still okay. For me changing out the controller antenna would only benefit maximum altitude flying.

 

[Highcloud]

Finally got the docooler repeater. Set up 2 x 9 DBI omnis and 1 x 18 DBI 60 degree azimuth netgear patch. Ran a quick test to 1 km. absolute rock solid video in any orientation. Waiting for 5.8 ghz amp to arrive to boost control before I get carried away as I'm surrounded by ht wires way higher than 20 metres on the Rth path if I do loose signal! Note the panel and omnis are tilted back by 10 degrees to maximise elevation beam penetration. The whole set up is on a rotating table, so if the need arises it can easily be rotated to follow the PV. The omnis will cover the first 1 km or so and then the patch will cover the longer range. By then the beam angle is sufficient to cover a huge chunk of sky. Weather had turned bad here again so unlikely to test fly again now until the weekend. Aiming for 3 km once the 5.8 ghz amp arrives.

 

[Pull_Up]

Are you talking about 1,000 feet vertical (straight up) or 1,000 feet away horizontal when you say you controller cuts out at around 1,000 feet.

Both. The vertical is good to 1000ft but requires a bit of careful antenna orienting and I need to be at least 200ft away horizontally - any closer and I'll get multiple drops at that height (that I can recover from with S1 temporarily). Wifi is fine vertically. Horizontally my wifi signal starts to degrade at 1000ft, but the max I've got out of the transmitter is under 1100ft. However, as I said earlier, I haven't range tested from a good open area, or (perhaps best) from a high point like a hill. It would be interesting to see if replacing the stock antenna with one of the panel types I've seen improves that - although I'm not fussed about flying beyond LOS and 1000ft is about the max distance I can genuinely say I'm flying with the aircraft in sight. I don't have any control or video issue within that 1000ft radius, it's rock solid.

This Flytrex log is from the last bit of range testing I did. Fairly flat terrain but some trees.

 

[themosttoys]

Finally got the docooler repeater. Set up 2 x 9 DBI omnis and 1 x 18 DBI 60 degree azimuth netgear patch. Ran a quick test to 1 km. absolute rock solid video in any orientation. Waiting for 5.8 ghz amp to arrive to boost control before I get carried away as I'm surrounded by ht wires way higher than 20 metres on the Rth path if I do loose signal! Note the panel and omnis are tilted back by 10 degrees to maximise elevation beam penetration. The whole set up is on a rotating table, so if the need arises it can easily be rotated to follow the PV. The omnis will cover the first 1 km or so and then the patch will cover the longer range. By then the beam angle is sufficient to cover a huge chunk of sky. Weather had turned bad here again so unlikely to test fly again now until the weekend. Aiming for 3 km once the 5.8 ghz amp arrives.

Great results. So you were 1km away with the P2V pointing away from you (not flying sideways), then flying directly back at you with rock solid video? That is (as far as I know) a new record. Interesting and congratulations.

 

[Highcloud]

Finally got the docooler repeater. Set up 2 x 9 DBI omnis and 1 x 18 DBI 60 degree azimuth netgear patch. Ran a quick test to 1 km. absolute rock solid video in any orientation. Waiting for 5.8 ghz amp to arrive to boost control before I get carried away as I'm surrounded by ht wires way higher than 20 metres on the Rth path if I do loose signal! Note the panel and omnis are tilted back by 10 degrees to maximise elevation beam penetration. The whole set up is on a rotating table, so if the need arises it can easily be rotated to follow the PV. The omnis will cover the first 1 km or so and then the patch will cover the longer range. By then the beam angle is sufficient to cover a huge chunk of sky. Weather had turned bad here again so unlikely to test fly again now until the weekend. Aiming for 3 km once the 5.8 ghz amp arrives.

Great results. So you were 1km away with the P2V pointing away from you (not flying sideways), then flying directly back at you with rock solid video? That is (as far as I know) a new record. Interesting and congratulations.

At 1Km I could rotate 360 degrees and had full video. I flew it out camera away from me and flew it back on home lock so tail coming back to me. I calculated a minimum 3 km video range depending On ground noise levels. Hope to test once the wind and rain stops again. I didn't want to push past 1 km as I know wires we're quite close and it was dark so difficult to see. Will do a daytime test to the point that the controller drops - just need to find a clear path home first.