Just checked my motors speed...

[yorlik]

I too have tached my Motors at idle. They varied greatly in RPM as yours. I deducted that this was simply because at idle there is no need to command precise lift yet. I agree with Frank that you are making up a non-existent problem.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[NRJ]

I too have tached my Motors at idle. They varied greatly in RPM as yours. I deducted that this was simply because at idle there is no need to command precise lift yet. I agree with Frank that you are making up a non-existent problem.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

That overall is what I am gathering. The only issue is the noise from one motor. I will do the tests that flyNfrank recommended. Thanks for your input.

 

[Meta4]

I will take your advice for now and do the tests you have outlined above and note the effects of those tests and see if there is anything that "stands out" as "out of the norm".

'The ultimate test is does your Phantom hover and fly properly.
If it does, nothing else matters.
The motor speeds when flying are going to be a lot more important than at idle.
And if it flies properly, the motor speeds must be right.

 

[flyNfrank]

'The ultimate test is does your Phantom hover and fly properly.
If it does, nothing else matters.
The motor speeds when flying are going to be a lot more important than at idle.
And if it flies properly, the motor speeds must be right.

I was thinking that one possibility he might be having based on noise, would be the clip on the bottom of the shaft coming out of the retention groove and sliding. If this did happen it would generate additional heat and be much hotter to the touch.

Infrared thermometers can be found at any hardware type store. And may even be at Walmart? They don't cost a great deal either. The best part is once you have one you will even with little thinking there is numerous uses you can use this tool for. It should be in everyone's toolbox in my opinion.

They are setup to where you point them at what your are checking the temp for and then just squeeze the trigger. It then displays a digital readout of the result on a small screen usually on the back. And here is a real good tip to remember....You can hold in on the trigger while pointing at your surface and it will display the temp live! So, as you scan along a surface, this method will allow you to see temp change as you go. I have used mine for anything from checking each exhaust port on my Tahoe to see which one had the most heat telling me the fuel injector was clogged. And on to checking to see which cans of Coke had been in the refrigerator the longest. Anyway, great tool!

 

[WetDog]

flyNfrank, so, it appears that the same issue exists between the tachometer rpm test and the current that is going to each motor as well as with the infrared thermometer. So, it is only a test and can be accurate or maybe not. Makes sense to me based on the current going to each particular motor. I understand. Also, a big "And" is that there are many variables involved in the current, positional telemetry, and atmospheric conditions that can affect the motors and this is all handled "pretty darn well" within the ESC, whether indoors, or outdoors, much of what I don't understand. This is evidently not a day and night issue. I will take your advice for now and do the tests you have outlined above and note the effects of those tests and see if there is anything that "stands out" as "out of the norm". I'll try to do that next week sometime. Thanks for your expertise and advice and to everyone's help and advice as well. One last question, where would I find an infrared thermometer? Thanks in advance.

If you really want to get compulsive, check out the detailed flight logs, like Bud Walker's program (if you haven't upgraded to the latest version). You can then get a good idea how much current the motors are drawing. If you have a bad motor, it's likely to be drawing extra current on a regular basis. This info is much more detailed and accurate than a thermometer.

The problem with the tachometer approach is that you might THINK you have the craft level, but even tiny variations in attitude are going to rapidly change rpms on the motor - it's what they do.

 

[NRJ]

If you really want to get compulsive, check out the detailed flight logs, like Bud Walker's program (if you haven't upgraded to the latest version). You can then get a good idea how much current the motors are drawing. If you have a bad motor, it's likely to be drawing extra current on a regular basis. This info is much more detailed and accurate than a thermometer.

The problem with the tachometer approach is that you might THINK you have the craft level, but even tiny variations in attitude are going to rapidly change rpms on the motor - it's what they do.

That is a good idea to use the flight logs. Concerning the tachometer, I placed the ac on a board and leveled it using an electronic bubble level app using the x/y to 0.0 and 0.2 respectively. Would not that be very close in leveling? I also like flyNfrank's idea of the thermometer.

Where will I find Bud Walkers program?

 

[NRJ]

WetDog and flyNfrank, I was able to get the DatCon and convert the files and get them in Dashware. I am attaching a pdf picture of part of the Dashware files that have the Motor information. Can you take a look at it and let me know if you need more information or if this is enough, Does it tell you anything? Thanks a lot.

 

[BudWalker]

That is a good idea to use the flight logs. Concerning the tachometer, I placed the ac on a board and leveled it using an electronic bubble level app using the x/y to 0.0 and 0.2 respectively. Would not that be very close in leveling? I also like flyNfrank's idea of the thermometer.

Where will I find Bud Walkers program?

You would find it here. That's a link to the CsvView app which will do what you need. You'll need to get the data from the .DAT since the .txt doesn't have the motor data. Go here for info on retrieving the .DAT. You'll probably want to look at motorLoad.

 

[NRJ]

You would find it here. That's a link to the CsvView app which will do what you need. You'll need to get the data from the .DAT since the .txt doesn't have the motor data. Go here for info on retrieving the .DAT. You'll probably want to look at motorLoad.

Actually, I did just as you described above. I had dabbled in "Dat.con" very early on and didn't think it would help me. Then when WetDog talked about it, I remembered I had it. Then I followed your readme files and got it all loaded. Then, just now, I saw your video tutorials and realized that I could actually run it. So, the pdf of the screen I put up there won't do anyone any good. I'm guessing you would have to run it and study the various guages to find out what you want to know. Thanks Bud for you help, but more than that, thanks for all your hard work and what a great job. With the readme's and the tutorials. You have everything one would need to set it all up.

Reading it and comprehending it may be another issue. What I'm looking for is the current used for each motor. I have used the older version (2.22) which does have the load put on each motor. I have a noise in one motor. I am thinking that one motor may be possibly running harder than it needs to all the time. What would I look for in order to determine that? Or should I be thinking differently? Thanks for any advice.
[EDIT] Just found the CSVview program. Awesome. I'll have to play with this for a bit now. Thanks.

 

[BudWalker]

Actually, I did just as you described above. I had dabbled in "Dat.con" very early on and didn't think it would help me. Then when WetDog talked about it, I remembered I had it. Then I followed your readme files and got it all loaded. Then, just now, I saw your video tutorials and realized that I could actually run it. So, the pdf of the screen I put up there won't do anyone any good. I'm guessing you would have to run it and study the various guages to find out what you want to know. Thanks Bud for you help, but more than that, thanks for all your hard work and what a great job. With the readme's and the tutorials. You have everything one would need to set it all up.

Reading it and comprehending it may be another issue. What I'm looking for is the current used for each motor. I have used the older version (2.22) which does have the load put on each motor. I have a noise in one motor. I am thinking that one motor may be possibly running harder than it needs to all the time. What would I look for in order to determine that? Or should I be thinking differently? Thanks for any advice.
[EDIT] Just found the CSVview program. Awesome. I'll have to play with this for a bit now. Thanks.

Since you're trying out CsvView can you unzip the attached and find the file motorLoads.pml. On the main CsvView panel File->Import Player then navigate to the motorLoads.pml file. That should create a SigPlayer that has the motor loads. You could also create an Empty SigPlayer and then populate it with the motor Loads.

 

[NRJ]

Since you're trying out CsvView can you unzip the attached and find the file motorLoads.pml. On the main CsvView panel File->Import Player then navigate to the motorLoads.pml file. That should create a SigPlayer that has the motor loads. You could also create an Empty SigPlayer and then populate it with the motor Loads.

Got it thanks. I'll now need to see if it all makes sense to me. I'll let you know. I may need a degree first. Haha.

 

[BudWalker]

Actually, I did just as you described above. I had dabbled in "Dat.con" very early on and didn't think it would help me. Then when WetDog talked about it, I remembered I had it. Then I followed your readme files and got it all loaded. Then, just now, I saw your video tutorials and realized that I could actually run it. So, the pdf of the screen I put up there won't do anyone any good. I'm guessing you would have to run it and study the various guages to find out what you want to know. Thanks Bud for you help, but more than that, thanks for all your hard work and what a great job. With the readme's and the tutorials. You have everything one would need to set it all up.
.......

The Dashware capability in DatCon is due to @laup who created the profiles and produced the videos. Without these and other contributions he has made DatCon development would have not been possible.

 

[N017RW]

I have a noise in one motor. I am thinking that one motor may be possibly running harder than it needs to all the time. What would I look for in order to determine that? Or should I be thinking differently?

Post-flight Temperature

 

[BudWalker]

.....
Reading it and comprehending it may be another issue. What I'm looking for is the current used for each motor. I have used the older version (2.22) which does have the load put on each motor. I have a noise in one motor. I am thinking that one motor may be possibly running harder than it needs to all the time. What would I look for in order to determine that? Or should I be thinking differently? Thanks for any advice.
[EDIT] Just found the CSVview program. Awesome. I'll have to play with this for a bit now. Thanks.

It's unknown exactly how motorLoad is measured and/or derived. I had assumed that it was a current measurement. But, then my motor head guru explained it was more complicated than that. I've been involved in 3 or 4 situations where there was a gradual degradation of a motor/ESC. In all of these situations the P3 was saying ESC error before it was readily apparent by looking at the motor data that DatCon knows about. In one case the P3 would indicate ESC error and shutdown after the 2 burst sequence at motorStart. This would happen more and more often. @Luap finally noticed that one motorLoad would intermittently go to 0. The point being that the P3 was much better at detecting an ESC issue than a couple of flight analyst wannabes looking at a .DAT.

On the one hand I agree with the posters here that say there isn't anything to worry about if your P3 flies right and there are no error messages. But, if it's making a different sound I'd wanna know what's up. Is it possible that one of the props is dinged and you're hearing the effects of that? If you haven't already maybe you could try running it without the props and see if still sounds like there is a problem.

 

[GMack]

For fun, I ran a 'newish' (3 hrs.) P4 at idle and read it's tach speeds.

Idle speeds P4. 3 hrs. total flight time. Date: 9-11-2016
Viewed from top or back behind camera.
Two runs at idle.

Front Left: 3096 - 3112
Front Right: 3025 - 3078

Rear Left: 3063 - 3068
Rear Right: 3116 - 3135

Average: 3,087 RPM. Works out to be +/- 48 RPM on a level table. Guess motors are okay and seem to be equally warm to touch.

I see the P3 and P4 motors are different in that the P4 exterior spins and no bolts underneath visible on the plastic body (No stress cracks!). I was going to do the lube thing to it with sewing machine oil, but the P4 isn't that easy to access top or bottom bearings due to its design so I gave the idea up.

Fwiw, the tach meter I used was some Harbor Freight thing that I got with their weekly 20% off coupon for $30 plus tax. It has the reflective tape for the props. If you are too close, it will read the second white prop without the tape but if you back it off to maybe 6-8 inches that doubling problem goes away (Speeds are doubled to ~6,200 RPM) and speeds are repeatable.

 

[NRJ]

The Dashware capability in DatCon is due to @laup who created the profiles and produced the videos. Without these and other contributions he has made DatCon development would have not been possible.

A hearty thanks to @laup for his great contributions. The entire project is awesome.

 

[NRJ]

It's unknown exactly how motorLoad is measured and/or derived. I had assumed that it was a current measurement. But, then my motor head guru explained it was more complicated than that. I've been involved in 3 or 4 situations where there was a gradual degradation of a motor/ESC. In all of these situations the P3 was saying ESC error before it was readily apparent by looking at the motor data that DatCon knows about. In one case the P3 would indicate ESC error and shutdown after the 2 burst sequence at motorStart. This would happen more and more often. @Luap finally noticed that one motorLoad would intermittently go to 0. The point being that the P3 was much better at detecting an ESC issue than a couple of flight analyst wannabes looking at a .DAT.

On the one hand I agree with the posters here that say there isn't anything to worry about if your P3 flies right and there are no error messages. But, if it's making a different sound I'd wanna know what's up. Is it possible that one of the props is dinged and you're hearing the effects of that? If you haven't already maybe you could try running it without the props and see if still sounds like there is a problem.

Interesting analysis. After running the Dashware with the motor loads as well as the CSVviews. I couldn't tell if there was anything out of the ordinary, but then again, I'm not sure I know what I am looking for. The intermittent going to zero I might be able to find but I will have to analyze several flights to determine the timing of the intermittent behavior. I just rechecked the balancing of the props 2 days ago, result very well balanced on the horizontal and vertical. They also are not nicked and nothing appears out of the ordinary with the props. I could try running it without the props. When I notice the noise, it is when I come back from a flight and it is usually about 5 minutes or more, but I'm not sure about that. I'm thinking a load on the motors might make it happen sooner. I guess I could just start it up and hold the motors spinning for a while. I'll see what I can do. I'm going to fly soon and I have a couple of battery's so, I may try a few things. Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[NRJ]

Post-flight Temperature

Is the post-flight temperature listed in the Dashware gauges that you know of? I didn't see it but I wasn't looking for it either. This is what flyNfrank was talking about too. I think I will get me an electronic thermometer (handy to have around) and use that too and see what I can determine about the temperature of all 4 motors. Thanks.

 

[NRJ]

For fun, I ran a 'newish' (3 hrs.) P4 at idle and read it's tach speeds.

Idle speeds P4. 3 hrs. total flight time. Date: 9-11-2016
Viewed from top or back behind camera.
Two runs at idle.

Front Left: 3096 - 3112
Front Right: 3025 - 3078

Rear Left: 3063 - 3068
Rear Right: 3116 - 3135

Average: 3,087 RPM. Works out to be +/- 48 RPM on a level table. Guess motors are okay and seem to be equally warm to touch.

I see the P3 and P4 motors are different in that the P4 exterior spins and no bolts underneath visible on the plastic body (No stress cracks!). I was going to do the lube thing to it with sewing machine oil, but the P4 isn't that easy to access top or bottom bearings due to its design so I gave the idea up.

Fwiw, the tach meter I used was some Harbor Freight thing that I got with their weekly 20% off coupon for $30 plus tax. It has the reflective tape for the props. If you are too close, it will read the second white prop without the tape but if you back it off to maybe 6-8 inches that doubling problem goes away (Speeds are doubled to ~6,200 RPM) and speeds are repeatable.

Interesting the speed of the motors of the P4 versus the P3A. What I did to stop reflection on the other side of the prop was to put adhesive black tape equally matching my reflective tape on the opposite side. There was no possibility of it reading incorrectly then, a trick I learned on YouTube. Thanks.

 

[Mocho]

Gmack, DO NOT put oil in your motors!!
Sealed bearings so all you will is reduce the life of your motor.