Issue With NFZ

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I don't see that anyone has really offered any type of solutions to the issue of avoiding NFZ. DJI's info is of little help and certainly the FAA is (still) falling WAY short of what they should be doing.

Let me start with DJI. I think they have done a good job when weighted against what they should be responsible for. They have built in many NFZ to their software. However, this pretty much only includes large airports and prisons. I personally think they have done a very good job in giving only warnings when near these locations and only shutting down the drone when it's about a miles away from the center of the location.

Who I fault most is the FAA. The actual tax paid entity that is charge of NFZ. Do this... search right now online for a searchable map of NFZ in the US. I have never been able to find one from the FAA. Please feel free to post here is you know where the FAA has this online. What they have done is put out a smartphone app (B4UFly). They can include a searchable map in a cell phone but not online?

We know for a fact that we can't trust the FAA's review of the actual laws governing UAV use... we always need to go directly to those regulations. Go to the FAA's website and try to actually find the regulations explaining why you need to call the airport. It will probably take awhile to find this information.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/Sec_331_336_UAS.pdf

The main part that applies is Section 336. I'll paste part of this below:

upload_2017-3-20_11-35-19.png


Now I could go on and on about the issues with the wording above but let me focus on one item... #5.

What is an "airport" as it applies to this entire section? It's not defined. You can find an explanation from the FAA in other areas of their website:

"An airport is defined in the law as any area of land or water used or intended for landing or takeoff of aircraft including appurtenant area used or intended for airport buildings, facilities, as well as rights of way together with the buildings and facilities."

So if the FAA chooses to follow their own information, you'd need to call anyone with anything that looks like could be used for a helicopter. So you'd need to include all helipads in the area. How many people call the local hospitals? If you do... PLEASE record that conversation as I'd love to hear their confusion.

Let me move in to the app....

If you look at the B4UFly app, it appears that the app almost agrees with this. That is, it seems to list most places that the FAA could know where aircraft can take off and land. This includes hospitals and small helipads. Other have commented on this (a fellow SLC flier recently)... if you were to go by the app, you may need to call a _lot_ of airports in order to fly in just one location. When I use a local zip code in the app, here is what was displayed:

Screenshot_20170320-091845.png



If I were to follow the map above, I've be calling 9 hospitals and some crazy small "airport" (it's called "Number 18" on the map) to obtain permission to launch a drone 1" off the ground. Seriously? How do I call "Number 18"? Then, what is that huge red area? It seems that Salt Lake International Airport is within hat area (though, the circle for the airport appears cut off in the north east corner) but there is nothing else showing to state what that large red areas is. I also did a search for Lehi, UT which contains a prison. We all know you cannot fly over a prison. Guess what.... nothing on the map for that!

So this is what the FAA gives us so that we can know where we can and cannot fly. This not only does not really help, it makes the situation worse in many cases. This really only scratches the surface of how badly
 
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Wow you wrote a book on NFZ.
 
A few of comments:
  1. By FAA regulation, there is no such thing as a no-fly zone, so it is not surprising that they do not provide a list or map of them. A sectional is all that you need to consult.
  2. In terms of calling the airports, yes that could be onerous in an area with multiple airports or helipads within 5 miles, but note that you are not requesting permission, just notifying, and so no response is required.
  3. The red area on your map is surface Class B. You cannot, legally, fly there under the special rule without ATC authorization and coordination.
 
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A few of comments:
In terms of calling the airports, yes that could be onerous in an area with multiple airports or helipads within 5 miles, but note that you are not requesting permission, just notifying, and so no response is required.

Another issue the FAA is not clear on. 336 is vague in this area. I agree 100% with what you mentioned. However, the FAA has put out info that seems to add requirements to this (which they are not allowed to do). You then have the "safety card" that someone could bring up. So I'd certainly agree that permission is not needed according to 336. This is not a guarantee to give you a walk if permission is not given. Yet... another problem.

It's just issue after issue after issue... yet drone fliers are blamed? Hey, give me the tools to know what I need to do and I'll do it! But when very little is clear and the FAA and the government makes almost no attempt to correct these issues? It's not like they have had 3-4 years to do this.
 
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Another issue the FAA is not clear on. 336 is vague in this area. I agree 100% with what you mentioned. However, the FAA has put out info that seems to add requirements to this (which they are not allowed to do). You then have the "safety card" that someone could bring up. So I'd certainly agree that permission is not needed according to 336. This is not a guarantee you a walk if permission is not given. Yet... another problem.

It's just issue after issue after issue... yet drone fliers are blamed? Hey, give me the tools to know what I need to do and I'll do it! But when very little is clear and the FAA and the government makes almost no attempt to correct these issues? It's not like they have had 3-4 years to do this.

They are quite clear on this point for recreational flying:

Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Frequently Asked Questions
Can an airport operator object to model aircraft flights near an airport?
Yes, an airport operator can object to the proposed use of a model aircraft within five miles of an airport if the proposed activity would endanger the safety of the airspace. However, the airport operator cannot prohibit or prevent the model aircraft operator from operating within five miles of the airport. Unsafe flying in spite of the objection of an airport operator may be evidence that the operator was endangering the safety of the National Airspace System. Additionally, the UAS operator must comply with any applicable airspace requirements.
 
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They are quite clear on this point for recreational flying:

Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Frequently Asked Questions
Can an airport operator object to model aircraft flights near an airport?
Yes, an airport operator can object to the proposed use of a model aircraft within five miles of an airport if the proposed activity would endanger the safety of the airspace. However, the airport operator cannot prohibit or prevent the model aircraft operator from operating within five miles of the airport. Unsafe flying in spite of the objection of an airport operator may be evidence that the operator was endangering the safety of the National Airspace System. Additionally, the UAS operator must comply with any applicable airspace requirements.

Which is what I mentioned in my prior post. The regulation does not state that the airport can prevent flight, only that flight needs to be mutually agreed upon. Thanks to your post above (good info), we see the FAA's view on this and that they have stated that they won't require a "mutual" agreement. While it does leave the safety issue door open, think it's pretty clear that this would not be used unless there was an actually safety issue that happened (not just the claim that it could happen).

So I would agree that only notification is needed. No agreement and the airport can't just object in general (they have done this, there have been posts about this issue).
 
Thank you Tcope for your post ... I agree with everything you said. I especially found the definition of an "airport" rather interesting. I would add to that - if my Phantom UAV is defined as an "aircraft" then my backyard is actually a private "airport". Therefore, I hereby grant myself permission to fly :)
 
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The NFZ system is a joke and the way DJI handles it is even more of a joke. Most of you don't have to deal with it, but in and around DC, it is a nightmare. If you really start looking at what the app is doing, what the aircraft is doing, and where you are geographically in relation to an NFZ, it is a joke, and you can see lack luster design in the various different layers that make up the DJI system (app, aircraft, etc.)

If you live in and around DC, DJI even acknowledges how ghetto they made it, and will grant you an individual unlock because the system is busted. BUT, only if you have an iOS device. The vast preference for iOS is also a major sign that DJI needs to get their **** together and probably has a pretty ghetto software development model, if any.

I would venture to say that things are as messed up as they are due to how they rolled out NFZ. I would be willing to bet it was a rushed job in the beginning (White House incident I think), and after that, you kind of had to work that rushed job in to any future releases.
 
So if the FAA chooses to follow their own information, you'd need to call anyone with anything that looks like could be used for a helicopter. So you'd need to include all helipads in the area. How many people call the local hospitals? If you do... PLEASE record that conversation as I'd love to hear their confusion.

I've done it. Hospitals are my favorite. I've talked to everyone from the head of the nursing staff to the head of the janitorial staff. No one had any idea why I was calling. One person was so confused that they thought I was asking for a helicopter to be dispatched to my location. I've called businesses and even a police heliport. I get, basically, the response. Why are you calling me? There is an ultralight airfield within a couple of miles of where I fly sometimes, or I should say someone who uses his driveway to takeoff and land his ultralight. At least when I talked to him he wanted to know if I could/would fly from where I was at to his house.

Thank you Tcope for your post ... I agree with everything you said. I especially found the definition of an "airport" rather interesting. I would add to that - if my Phantom UAV is defined as an "aircraft" then my backyard is actually a private "airport". Therefore, I hereby grant myself permission to fly :)

I want to go a step farther. I want B4UFLY to list my driveway as an private airport. At least when someone called me I would know what they are talking about.
 
I agree with @Beagle1.
The NFZ here did not used to be enforced if you turned off the geofencing feature. I started up my drone for the first time in a couple months, and now I can't even fly my drone 10' off the ground at my neighborhood park. I live six miles from the White House and outside DC limits. The idea that flying at my location is somehow a threat to the President is more than a little goofy.

@Beagle1 the unlock is available only for iOS devices?
 

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