is this legit loophole for hobbyist offering aerials??

[Nick Mendocino]

It's a violation of law to give legal advice if you're not a licensed attorney. Looks like a lot of lawbreakers on this thread.

 

[Nemo]

As a hobbyist nearing end of first year P4P+ ownership,
am imagining day someone approaches me wanting to
know how much to take aerials & when I say I don't have
required licencing to make $$ from images they respond,
"why don't I pay you for hand-held shots of _______ & then
later you can take aerials & give them to me free?"

It could be a farmer, a property owner, a business owner,
an event organizer, or whatever...

I don’t know why the government doesn’t just let us alone when it comes to photographs. I can see the other stuff but not pictures...

 

[beads555]

As a hobbyist nearing end of first year P4P+ ownership,
am imagining day someone approaches me wanting to
know how much to take aerials & when I say I don't have
required licencing to make $$ from images they respond,
"why don't I pay you for hand-held shots of _______ & then
later you can take aerials & give them to me free?"

It could be a farmer, a property owner, a business owner,
an event organizer, or whatever...

The way you get around it that's bullet proof is you tell him you film it for free but charge x amount for editing. Done!

 

[sar104]

The way you get around it that's bullet proof is you tell him you film it for free but charge x amount for editing. Done!

I guess that it was inevitable in this thread that someone would resurrect this myth.

 

[GadgetGuy]

It is your “intent at time of flight “ . Perfectly legal to sell later if you change your mind.

This is the key.
You can later make money off video and images shot as a hobbyist, as long as that was not your intent at the time you took the video or images. You can legally compile all your hobbyist images, and then sell them to anyone who will buy them, as long as that was not your original plan when they were made. However, any agreement made to purchase before the images were made voids your safe harbor exclusion. Once you have sold any images, and continue flying, it's much harder to argue that you no longer have any business intent. Best to do this after you have stopped flying, or after you have gotten your 107. Any images taken before you got your 107 can also be sold, as long as you didn't intend to sell them when you shot them.

 

[bsartist]

Just bite the bullet, study up and pay the $150 to take the test. I know some people say its hard but it really isn't. My sister in law passed it with a 73 with zero drone experience and only studied for about a month. And I mean ZERO experience, she had literally never flown a drone but she is a hobbyist photographer with dreams of selling her work and wanted the ability to do aerial stuff... I studied for 2 weeks and passed with an 85 and didn't spend a dime on any courses or material.

What did you use to study?

 

[bsartist]

Geezus...
Quit spending time trying to find a loophole and go spend the $30 at a local flight supply store for the book

Learn it, read it, test it-problem solved.

I can not for the life of me figure out why people nowadays simply will not follow rules. It's always got to be about the angle. Follow the f(&;$/) law.

Do you have the name of the book so I can look for it online?

 

[bsartist]

It does not matter if you charge for photos or video... What matters is if the photos or video is used commercially. If the photos taken by an un certified UAV Pilot then you can incur a fine. A prominent Real Estate Photographers web page published an article on this issue. The fine for whoever publishes the photos can be as high as 11,500.00$ and 1,500.00 for the uncertified pilot. I that person is both the pilot and publisher then a total of 13,000.00$. The test when I took it was only 165.00$ and I spent a few hours a night for a week to study for it. Go take the test.

What did you study from?

 

[GadgetGuy]

It's much harder to make a case for a hobbyist flight, after you get your 107. So getting your 107 is not as clear cut a solution as some would lead you to believe, especially for incidental money opportunities that happen after your recreational flights. You will be held to a higher standard than a hobbyist with your 107, and it will be presumed (yes, rebuttable, but the burden will be on you to prove hobbyist flight) that every flight is a 107 flight, with all the inherent 107 restrictions. Much better to be a hobbyist, unless you are a real business. As a hobbyist, the burden is on them to prove you had a business intent prior to your flight!

 

[lloyd786]

Go get you license, it's easy, it'll take a week of studying and a couple days waiting for your results to post.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Go get you license, it's easy, it'll take a week of studying and a couple days waiting for your results to post.

See post #49 above.

 

[Buk]

Here try this as a discussion item :
A drone hobbyist has a collection of aerial photo and videos of federal, state and local construction projects spanning four years done for fun and enjoyment. A state government and a local government ask to use some of the photos/videos. The drone hobbyist accepts nothing, not even an acknowledgement, giving away access to her past work and agrees to make some new videos to donate to the two government agencies. Is a 107 required? Are government entities businesses?

A miscellaneous comment about the 107 Test. It has little to do with flying a drone (the skill or experience).

 

[GadgetGuy]

Here try this as a discussion item :
A drone hobbyist has a collection of aerial photo and videos of federal, state and local construction projects spanning four years done for fun and enjoyment. A state government and a local government ask to use some of the photos/videos. The drone hobbyist accepts nothing, not even an acknowledgement, giving away access to her past work and agrees to make some new videos to donate to the two government agencies. Is a 107 required? Are government entities businesses?

A miscellaneous comment about the 107 Test. It has little to do with flying a drone (the skill or experience).

Three separate questions.
1. The drone hobbyist may legally charge anything she wants for her past work done with the intent of fun and enjoyment, and sell it to anyone without a 107.
2. Any agreement for future flying is clearly not intended for fun and enjoyment and would therefore require a 107.
3. Unsure about how the FAA defines businesses, but it it does not change the answers to questions 1 and 2.

 

[Buk]

Three separate questions.
1. The drone hobbyist may legally charge anything she wants for her past work done with the intent of fun and enjoyment, and sell it to anyone without a 107.
2. Any agreement for future flying is clearly not intended for fun and enjoyment and would therefore require a 107.
3. Unsure about how the FAA defines businesses, but it it does not change the answers to questions 1 and 2.

Point #1 - agree with your sentence.
Point #2 - my bad use of "agrees to". She is going to fly for the same joy and enjoyment of recording construction activities she has been doing for the previous four years. She was going to do it anyway. There is no gain for her, just the warm feeling of doing what she enjoys. There is no agreement or contract.
Point #3 - as noted in previous comments by others, there was no furtherance of a business. A City is not a business, or is it?

Thanks for your comments.

 

[dangerd]

Hobby flyers can not sell anything legally. You need the 107 cert or a 333 etc.
Really this should not be so hard to understand. Let's take the government out of the equation and say you probably will not get a fine anyhow...
You are still screwing all of us who took the time to do it the right way and devaluating the whole industry so nobody can make a living flying a drone.
I work in show business so this has always been a problem in my industry.
Why not go get educated, learn something, keep everyone more safe and charge a fair price so you and your fellow operators can all make a little money?
Stop trying to find a way to cheat.

 

[DiverDan]

As a hobbyist nearing end of first year P4P+ ownership,
am imagining day someone approaches me wanting to
know how much to take aerials & when I say I don't have
required licencing to make $$ from images they respond,
"why don't I pay you for hand-held shots of _______ & then
later you can take aerials & give them to me free?"

It could be a farmer, a property owner, a business owner,
an event organizer, or whatever...

It's like the ancient joke:
Man to woman in bar: Will you sleep with me for $10?
Woman: Of course not!
Man: Well how about $10000?
I forget the rest but somewhere in there she asks :"What kind of girl do you think I am?" and he replies, "We've established that. Now we're negotiating the price."

Make one cent, you're a pro.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Hobby flyers can not sell anything legally. You need the 107 cert or a 333 etc.
Really this should not be so hard to understand. Let's take the government out of the equation and say you probably will not get a fine anyhow...
You are still screwing all of us who took the time to do it the right way and devaluating the whole industry so nobody can make a living flying a drone.
I work in show business so this has always been a problem in my industry.
Why not go get educated, learn something, keep everyone more safe and charge a fair price so you and your fellow operators can all make a little money?
Stop trying to find a way to cheat.

You are mistaken. Read the posts explaining what you have missed.

 

[dangerd]

You are mistaken. Read the posts explaining what you have missed.

Not mistaken. Hobby flyer = can't sell.
Hobby flyer gathers footage without intent to sell, later gets 107, this guy can sell footage. No commercial (civil) rating / cert, no sales.
That is how the law works, anything else is just an excuse or bad reasoning.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Point #1 - agree with your sentence.
Point #2 - my bad use of "agrees to". She is going to fly for the same joy and enjoyment of recording construction activities she has been doing for the previous four years. She was going to do it anyway. There is no gain for her, just the warm feeling of doing what she enjoys. There is no agreement or contract.
Point #3 - as noted in previous comments by others, there was no furtherance of a business. A City is not a business, or is it?

Thanks for your comments.

2. Once she has shared her images with them as a hobbyist, whether for free or a fee, any further flying delivering similar images to them is no longer in the safe harbor. Whether she receives gain, and that she gets warm feelings from what she enjoys, is irrelevant. There is certainly an implied agreement thereafter, which requires a 107, for any future flights, where her intent is to also deliver them images, regardless of any remuneration.
3. Still doesn't change the answers to 1 and 2.

 

[dangerd]

She can share as a hobbyist with anyone she wants. If they use it for promotion, business etc. they put her in the awkward position of a possible fine even though it's not her fault.
Best advice when sharing is to make them sign a non commercial use contract so that they get the fine not her.
At least then she can show that the content was intended ONLY for hobby purposes and NOT for commercial use.
I think we can definitely agree on that.