Invalid Battery on Phantom Vision..Advice needed.

[Monster2]

So basically nobody is flying, waiting for DJI response?
I haven't had the problem yet, but I definitely don't want pay for international shipping, even if the dealer will replace it.

 

[whitewatersalvo]

I emailed Dji and asked them what their advice was regarding flying it or keeping it packed away (I haven't even done my maiden flight yet as I am afraid of damage) I clearly asked them if they would cover it if it did fail and break, I asked them about a firmware update, I asked them about the different procedures that are coming out of different dealers to deal with it, and finally pleaded with them that they release some sort of public statement for their anxious customers.

All I got back was the same copy and paste message other have gotten.

Dear Patrick,

DJI will responsible for the "Invalid battery" case, should your Phantom 2 Vision has this issue, please contact the dealer you bought this to help you on the full replacement, for a brand new one.
Please share this news with your friends who plan to order Phantom 2 Vision.

Thank you,
Dealer Technical Support | DJI | www.dji.com

I am not sharing sh** if anyone asks me whether or not to buy a PV I am going to tell them to run the other way.

At least for now, you can't tell a good company by how they handle themselves when everything is going according to plan, you look at what they do when things go wrong, and right now, Dji is floundering.

 

[wildcatter]

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywor ... rdstsg9f_b

 

[vbluguitar]

OK, so I am going to make this whole situation worse.

What most of you are not realizing is that the invalid battery is not what is causing the vision to make an emergency landing - IT'S THE FACT THAT IT CAN'T READ THE VOLTAGE THAT MAKES IT CRASH LAND. Disabling the "valid battery" check won't do anything to prevent the emergency landing, because your vision will show an empty battery if it loses contact with its "smart" battery.

If the vision stops receiving voltage telemetry from the battery, regardless if its a valid battery or not, its going to go into emergency landing mode. The ONLY way to alleviate the situation is to disable the emergency voltage landing feature, which is a problem, because it would allow noob lipo users to fly their battery to extinction... Not sure how they are going to fix this one.

Also - wildcat, I am going to try your pedal grease fix, but am going to only fly low and slow for the next 10 flights or so. I really don't want to have to go through the hassle of returning the unit. I really love the vision so far and am frustrated that we are being used a beta testers at $1200 a pop.

 

[vbluguitar]

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=penetrox&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=32505638671&hvpos=1s1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=90802807256190606&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_73rdstsg9f_b

Thanks for the link bud

 

[wildcatter]

your very welcome. I was very Cautions my first few flight after using the penatrox. I have had no issues

 

[HollyFlier]

OK, so I am going to make this whole situation worse.

What most of you are not realizing is that the invalid battery is not what is causing the vision to make an emergency landing - IT'S THE FACT THAT IT CAN'T READ THE VOLTAGE THAT MAKES IT CRASH LAND. Disabling the "valid battery" check won't do anything to prevent the emergency landing, because your vision will show an empty battery if it loses contact with its "smart" battery.

If the vision stops receiving voltage telemetry from the battery, regardless if its a valid battery or not, its going to go into emergency landing mode. The ONLY way to alleviate the situation is to disable the emergency voltage landing feature, which is a problem, because it would allow noob lipo users to fly their battery to extinction... Not sure how they are going to fix this one.

Also - wildcat, I am going to try your pedal grease fix, but am going to only fly low and slow for the next 10 flights or so. I really don't want to have to go through the hassle of returning the unit. I really love the vision so far and am frustrated that we are being used a beta testers at $1200 a pop.

You are exactly right! I noticed on mine, even before I got the invalid battery shutdown, that the voltage reading was not linear. It would start out fine, then drop to 60%, then 40%, then QUICKLY to 20%. I dismissed it at first, as a minor bug, but looking back, I think it was a precursor to the Invalid Battery thing. If that's true, I don't see how they can correct this with a firmware update? They are going to have to change the hardware at some point... Looks like we all get brand new PV's!

 

[Driffill]

OK, so I am going to make this whole situation worse.

What most of you are not realizing is that the invalid battery is not what is causing the vision to make an emergency landing - IT'S THE FACT THAT IT CAN'T READ THE VOLTAGE THAT MAKES IT CRASH LAND. Disabling the "valid battery" check won't do anything to prevent the emergency landing, because your vision will show an empty battery if it loses contact with its "smart" battery.

If the vision stops receiving voltage telemetry from the battery, regardless if its a valid battery or not, its going to go into emergency landing mode. The ONLY way to alleviate the situation is to disable the emergency voltage landing feature, which is a problem, because it would allow noob lipo users to fly their battery to extinction... Not sure how they are going to fix this one.

Also - wildcat, I am going to try your pedal grease fix, but am going to only fly low and slow for the next 10 flights or so. I really don't want to have to go through the hassle of returning the unit. I really love the vision so far and am frustrated that we are being used a beta testers at $1200 a pop.

Close, but not quite right!

The main current carrying connection on the phantom vision are perfectly fine, and the ESC's are still fully connected to the battery, the issue is (in a sneaky attemp to prevent 3rd party batteries, thus make more $$$) because DJI have put an battery ID circuit on the battery, this is the connection the they are suggesting needs to be cleaned.

How's this, gopro cameras have the rear access bus, for wifi/battery backpack, lcd screen etc . . . In order for the gopro to know what plugged in to the bus, each "backpack" device uses a simple I2C chip to send an ID (the LCD pack sends "09" as its id!) signal to the host so it knows what to do with the device. I'd almost bet dji has almost identical system on their battery.

The dji vision battery is nothing more than a standard lipo battery with a balance PCB and a couple charge led indicators on it, easy to add one more I2C for the ID, but really, its only about $10 MAX in extra electronics on top of a 5200mah lipo.

Also, I don't think there is any lipo battery chargers that will charge a battery if we don't have the balance port plugged in, dji took advantage of this by changing their battery to not have the balance port . . .

Give it a few months, once some cheap clones of the parts etc come out, dji will drop their price just like they did with zenmuse V1/V2, naza m V2, phantom V1.0.0

 

[Mike Mas]

Just wondering what genius at DJI came up with the "Clean the Terminals" theory on a brand new piece of equipment. If it were a contact problem, which it is not, the processor won't be telling the Phantom to anything, it would be dead and just fall out of the sky. I hooked a standard Phantom battery up direct to the terminals in the Vision and it errors out just like the stock pack so we know its not voltage, it seems to me it can't read the battery ID correctly.

What puzzles me is why was I able to fly 15 flights with no problem then all of a sudden there is a problem. If the processor now reads an Invalid battery code why didn't it read the same code before. Other then programming the processor to remove the read on the batt, this looks like it could be a real problem.

Its too bad we can't just stick another battery in our machine like any other electric helicopter while they sort this out!

 

[RemE]

I disagree that this is a simple ID chip. We use these type smart batteries in our medical products. The Vision gets continuous serial data from these two small connections. The Vision can see the individual cell voltages, number of cycles, battery SN etc. You can see this data using the Vision software.

When the battery goes below 30% you get slow blinking red lights, as a low fuel warning.

When the battery goes below 20% you get fast blinking red lights.

When the battery is about to deplete, the Vision auto lands.

When the smart battery serial data is interrupted, the phone app shows "invalid Battery", battery at 0%. The Vision FC is then blind to battery status, and currently assumes dead, and performs an auto land.

The battery also displays its fuel level on the rear LED gauge, and that remains accurate. A software patch could easily prevent the auto land, provide a message like "battery data lost, please check battery". You could fly back and look at the rear fuel gauge. But the loss of data needs to be dealt with. Maybe only a brief loss of data currently locks the error condition, which could also be corrected. But if the problem is a physical connector problem, then a hardware fix (new contact piece, etc.) will be in order.

I have verified this behavior on the bench by covering these contacts.

I posted more about this, with photos, here;

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost ... tcount=695

I used a gold contact enhancer, and have never seen the problem and don't expect to.

 

[HollyFlier]

RemE
I think you nailed it! I completely agree with your analysis. I had 5 good flights, then the Invalid Battery alarm for 3 consecutive flights. Finally used contact cleaner and a small dab of dielectric grease. Have had 3 flights in a row without issue. Hopefully new firmware will eliminate the Emergency Landings and I can fly with confidence again.

 

[Sidewinder]

Not flying mine because 1. The camera stopped working on the first flight. 2. with the battery problems I have zero confidence in the machine.

Have had 5-6 phone conversations with Dronefly and I had to initiate those. They know the problem I'm having with the camera and keep saying they will sort it out with DJI but after two weeks nothing. I really don't want the thing now but was informed their money back guarantee is only if you don't fly it. Hell I flew it for 10 min. the camera failed and I landed it like a butterfly with sore feet. you'd never know it was airborne. I've been patient but that's growing thin. I was NOT aware that the machine was being shipped without IOC but was led to believe all the functions operated. Sort of feel like I got in contact with a snake oil salesman.

Have two other machines to fly but, I'd rather spend the $1200 on parts to build another machine that will do what it's suppose to do. Phantom vision 2 does not do this in my case. DJI should take back and refund any and all of these machines which were sent out as a beta version.

I'm an experienced pilot and if any manufacturer of full size aircraft had these problems there would be plenty of service bulletins and groundings. If a few of these things begin falling out of the sky and causing personal injury and property damage you will see the FAA get involved and regulation forced on hobbyist due to irresponsible acts and marketing by DJI. I would hope they have good legal advice because they are taking great financial risk by the actions I've witnessed during the introduction of this product.

I think the concept and ideas offered with this new copter is great and when the bugs are worked out it will prove to be a giant step forward for this type of machine. However, IMO they put it in the hands of the consumer with lots of potential risk to the company and it's customers.

 

[rbarghini]

All,

So is it safe to say that if you hook up your PV to the Assistant program and you don't get the Invalid Battery error message you're in the clear?

 

[Sidewinder]

I wouldn't bet on that. Some have flown several flights before the problem occurs. From what I've seen the problem occurs on a random basis. Some have corrected the problem only to have it reoccur. greasing up the two small pins seem to provide adequate connection but who knows? Until DJI can tell me what's causing this and what fix is necessary I won't be flying the Phantom Vision.

 

[Driffill]

I don't own a vision, so my thoughts are nearly speculation, but I hope somehow its helping! The naza is the unit looking at the voltage and sending the data to the led (and I can only assume the vision app) on a v1 phantom, the same voltage and fail safe systems apply, but, if you can access the individual cell voltages and the battery s/n thru the software (please screenshot) than that would have to be data coming thru the contacts in question.

I wasn't saying the gopro system was exactly how dji done it (IE, using only an id thru the contacts) but before people went connecting 11.1v directly to the contact and burning out things, I'd just thought I'd point out that its a data connector. I'd also bet my left nut that the reason there is no spare batteries available yet, is because they will be changing the design of the terminals to address this problem, and all the first time dji owners who have invested in a vision will learn how dji develops their "innovations".

V1 phantom had flyaways, also not directly address by DJI, but now newer models use 3rd party (IE FASST) technology or a 5.8ghz freq! The H3-2D ZenMuse was a nightmare for DJI, until the V2 H3-2D came out (also plug and play upgrade baords, pmu v2 etc) but don't expect DJI to acknowledge there is 2 versions of H3 ZenMuse! (Also no spare parts for months?). And now, the newest headache to DJI's line up, the Phantom Vision with its "genuinely invalid" battery issue!

The auto land itself is hypocritical! If the battery voltage was zero, well, it wouldn't have the ability to inform you of an invalid battery, and/or auto land. The data connector losing/not having data triggers 2nd level batt warning, this could be removed from the firmware! (Not the actual voltage warning, but the invalid battery trigging it) But, it would also allow 3rd party batteries to work in the vision. DJI are a business, they need to profit, they saw this as a way of preventing our $$$ going to another company, thus it won't be taken out of the firmware!

I sure hope the electrical grease works, but I can see a "vision v2.1 battery terminal "upgrade" board" coming out in the near future, (most likely plug and play, so have be sure to have your soldering irons warmed up lmao) the only thing I'm not sure about is who will release it first, DJI or some Chinese manufacture?? Plug a small PCB on to the balance port of a 3rd party battery, send the "spoofed" data to the naza to shut it up, and we can go fly

 

[drone4me]

This is just bad logic programming from DJI. If they are sampling the voltage every 10s or whatever interval they have it set to, they should just ignore the reading if the delta is too big. there's no way a battery can go from 30% to 0. If they do see the big change in the delta, it should make the assumption the data connection to the battery is lost and not initiate a emergency landing.

 

[Crimbo]

An update
i have just sent this to my supplier and will keep the forum posted.

Just a quick update as I have not heard anything from anyone with regards to the now well documented problem with the new vision.
My personal position is that, if there is no update or proposed update to either the software or the hardware directly from Dji by Tuesday 19th Nov next week I will return my vision to yourselves for a full refund.
I believe they have implied they would do an exchange, but given the numbers of problems arising it would not be responsible of me to fly even a new model until we are told it is fixed.
I trust you understand my position, I would happily purchase another vision from yourselves the minute it is fit to fly as it is potentially a brilliant piece of kit.
But for the time being ie Tuesday next week my money is better placed in my pocket than an indefinite wait.
Please acknowledge this email by return

 

[Crimbo]

it's just such a gamble isn't it !
so many what if's, those of us, that this happened to at greater distances i guess had greater scares, i was at 300ft and 3 or 4 gardens down with limited control, fortunately i'm a reasonably experienced flyer and at least managed to react quick enough to get it back over my garden, it still came down between 2 trees, just dead lucky with that, but if it had hit and got damaged ...then what, just tough luck ! goodbye £ 850.00 HMMM

 

[itsmecarl123]

I disagree that this is a simple ID chip. We use these type smart batteries in our medical products. The Vision gets continuous serial data from these two small connections. The Vision can see the individual cell voltages, number of cycles, battery SN etc. You can see this data using the Vision software.

When the battery goes below 30% you get slow blinking red lights, as a low fuel warning.

When the battery goes below 20% you get fast blinking red lights.

When the battery is about to deplete, the Vision auto lands.

When the smart battery serial data is interrupted, the phone app shows "invalid Battery", battery at 0%. The Vision FC is then blind to battery status, and currently assumes dead, and performs an auto land.

The battery also displays its fuel level on the rear LED gauge, and that remains accurate. A software patch could easily prevent the auto land, provide a message like "battery data lost, please check battery". You could fly back and look at the rear fuel gauge. But the loss of data needs to be dealt with. Maybe only a brief loss of data currently locks the error condition, which could also be corrected. But if the problem is a physical connector problem, then a hardware fix (new contact piece, etc.) will be in order.

I have verified this behavior on the bench by covering these contacts.

I posted more about this, with photos, here;

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost ... tcount=695

I used a gold contact enhancer, and have never seen the problem and don't expect to.

Hi RemE,

This is probably one of the most in-depth analysis I've seen on this defect. Question: Since you've applied DeoxIT, have you experienced the invalid battery message? Cleaning the battery data contacts seems to help, but it doesn't give me 100% confidence to fly higher and further with the PV.

Thank you so much for your post!

Best,
Itsmecarl123

 

[paramanch36]

so a week ago before all the post started I ordered mine in Switzerland, got the confirm shipment today so it on the way I wrote to the supplier a Swiss DJI dealer about the posts here and this was the reply

::::thanks for your info.

DJI know about that problem and is aware about that. I check it with DJI what solution they have, may solve the problem before or the replace the batties of each Phantom before. Or swap it after. That shoud go under warranty.

I check that with DJI. ::::


so the word has not ceom from DJI to stip shipments in case there is a big generic problem which to me seems a little inresponible of a company making things that can hurt someone if it goes wrong with no control over it.

Will hopfully get it tomorrow or Monday at the latedt and give it a go and see if get any problems.


cant see why they cant get IOC to work... it works on all other DJI naza. maybe the switch to 5.8mhz...