I'm really considering giving up my dream job...

[lalvar40]

Wow - It is amazing to me that ALL of the agencies have that covered in this way. That being the case, you may want to consider simply becoming a regular exterior/interior real estate photographer, and ADD the drone work to your package offerings. This is exactly what I have done for years.

You are totally right. I started thinking that aerial was enough...I was wrong.... REAs always need interior photos, and aerials are just a nice to have, so I am doing interior too. Phil, could you share what is the basic gear you use for interior? The challenge now is how to maintain cost low so you can have some profit.

 

[Phil Tuggle]

Phil, could you share what is the basic gear you use for interior? The challenge now is how to maintain cost low so you can have some profit.

Cost is a tough thing for anyone. The one thing you will need the majority of the time is a wide but distortion free lens, anywhere from 16mm to perhaps 22mm. That is also a matter of opinion, but it's certainly mine. Also my opinion is this: You do not need a full frame killer of a camera for real estate; what you will create goes online at 72-96 dpi or is printed at 300 dpi, with an occasional billboard. No art galleries (although you could do that too). If you use practice and skill, you will knock people's socks off with stunning images.

For both interior and exterior clips and stills, I started out with a Panasonic Lumix LX7. It has a lot of great features as a small but "high end" point and shoot camera. I quickly found out - like everyone else - that you need a sharp, quality wide angle lens so outfitted mine with a Kiwi LA-52LX7 adapter plus a Bower 52 to 49 adapter and a Konica-Minolta ACW-100 distortion free wide lens. Weird combo but it is tack sharp and distortion-free, equivalent to around 19mm. All of that was probably $600 (camera plus about 175USD but the camera was far more expensive a few years ago at about $450 - now probably $300 or less).

Now, because I needed something a bit lighter and with super simple twilight capability, I have a little mirrorless called the Olympus OMD E-M10 Mark II (it is nothing short of amazing, but I probably should have gotten the water/dust proof/even more features E-M5 Mark II). That is coupled with an Olympus 9-18mm zoom lens (lens eq to 18-36). That setup is a great deal more expensive at $449 for the camera body (on sale) and $600 for the lens. Often you will find any of the above in great used condition at KEH.

For lighting (if you "expose for the windows") I just use dirt cheap but super-reliable, powerful, and well made Neewer TT560 speedlights, usually aimed at ceilings for gentle diffusion.

For video clips, you can use a horizontal and inclined "slider" (or piece of smooth lumber or tabletop, and a small felt pad under the camera). For video, you will also need a solid tripod with a good smooth fluid head if possible. My Davis and Sanford has both features and was $140 new. I also happened to use a XCam Sabre handheld stabilizer for a bit of walking around, but now have the Zhiyun Crane M which is beyond awesome.

...AND...your drone! Which you already have!

So there ya go. That's what I happen to have as an economical solution. Just don't forget to claim your IRS deductions on Schedule C.

Good luck with everything.

 

[lalvar40]

So there ya go. That's what I happen to have as an economical solution. Just don't forget to claim your IRS deductions on Schedule C.

Good luck with everything.

Thank you! I see you have an affordable gear. Now, let's talk about time in editing. It takes me about 45 minutes to do aerials, and like 1-1.5 hrs to do interiors. Then, I go home, and spend at least 6-8 hrs in Lightroom and Photoshop CC. This is another challenge, I want to provide great quality pictures and slideshows. However, REAs don't really see the differences between 2 hrs editing and 8 hrs editing. I do show nice windows view in high contrast rooms...wondering if everybody appreciates it. Any thought here?

 

[BigAl07]

Thank you! I see you have an affordable gear. Now, let's talk about time in editing. It takes me about 45 minutes to do aerials, and like 1-1.5 hrs to do interiors. Then, I go home, and spend at least 6-8 hrs in Lightroom and Photoshop CC. This is another challenge, I want to provide great quality pictures and slideshows. However, REAs don't really see the differences between 2 hrs editing and 8 hrs editing. I do show nice windows view in high contrast rooms...wondering if everybody appreciates it. Any thought here?

You've got to learn to either change your work flow to match the budget of the Realtor or change your clients to those who are willing to pay your hourly rate.

We have different work flows for different projects and Real Estate imagery is very much on the "quick" end of things.

 

[Phil Tuggle]

...wondering if everybody appreciates it. Any thought here?

I am sure others will chime-in but as for me I've managed to get down to about one or two hours from memory card to delivery. It wasn't always that way; the 2, 3, 4+ hours sounds all too familiar. Drone photos are and add-on for me, so setting up and doing what is needed is pretty time consuming (but enjoyable...or I'd stop offering drone work). As to exterior and interior stills, I go into a sequence like an agent would and shoot 2 to 4 angles per room with a few framing and lighting variations (usually ONE camera mounted flash, and manual mode). Amazingly then, a typical listing ends up with 120-180 images! Crazy - Insane! So then, my current sequence is...

• Make a folder, "123MainSt-20AUG2017-JoeAgent" for all the camera files and create sub folders, "123MainSt-FIN" and "123Main-MLS".
• Go to Adobe Bridge and toss out ALL the images I do not need; that reduces it to perhaps 40 or 50 shots to work on.
• Open Lightroom, create a new catalog called "123MainsStreet" and import the files with smart previews selected; select all and go to Develop.
• Develop/adjust the first one or two in the different environments and save my work as a Preset with all but vertical alignment selected and SYNC the adjustments to ALL remaining indoors or outdoors images.
• Then go through each image very quickly, simply tweek the exposure and the verticals.
• Select all developed images when done and export these in sequence+address to the -FIN folder. These are large files for later use, but you can also re-size during export.
• I use a really nice resizing program (which does a lot of other things too) and copy all of the FIN images, now sized for the MLS, into the -MLS folder
• Go to the MLS folder and compress the finished photos (actually the total size won't change much) into one ZipFile named (you guessed it), "123MainSt-MLS.ZIP."
• Upload to Google Drive and send sharable link to agent via email.
• Have beer(s).

Whew!
I am sure there are a hundred BETTER and faster ways to do all this, but for me the best and quickest EDITING step is Lightroom. I only use PS when I have a more serious correction to perform -- perhaps 4-6 images on average per batch. Total time, between one and two hours, rarely more (farms and mansions). And you are certainly correct -- agents generally haven't a clue nor should they...unless you are explaining pricing.

The DRONE images, then, are just thrown in the main folder at the start.

 

[skellyrocker]

I've only scanned some of the responses so apologies if this have been covered. Being a commercial drone pilot isn't just about doing one sector or another. Because you are now qualified and insured you have total freedom to pursue lots of segments. While it is important to remember that the drone is just a tool (not the be all and end all) push yourself into other areas. Read up on them. How they are being used. What the benefits are - and the limitations. Things to explore are: mapping / surveying, 3D models, agriculture, construction, archaeology, filming for small business promotion, local community projects (that typically has to be free but a great opportunity to build you portfolio and network). You've done the tricky part. And while the rest is hard, read my lips: DON'T. GIVE. UP!

 

[SkyFrog]

Residential real estate is cut throat as hell, and there isn't any real money in it for us anymore. I'm finding that out the hard way myself too.

I just landed a large regional commercial real estate client, and it's a whole different ball game. There's more money per project too, and it isn't as crazy.

Also look into summer weekly rental properties, talk to golf courses, talk to local towns and municipalities about doing things for tourism promotion, and use the term "economic development" a lot. Talk to land planners and landscape architects. Go find a nice new development and put together a beautiful aerial presentation, and present it to the developer.

Those are just a few ideas off the top of my head. You're far from dead in the water.

 

[Phil Tuggle]

...and use the term "economic development" a lot. Talk to land planners and landscape architects. Go find a nice new development and put together a beautiful aerial presentation, and present it to the developer...You're far from dead in the water.

@Briankbl , Mr SkyFrog is right! That is great advice, plain and simple. Do not keep yourself in a box.

By the way, SkyFrog, I love your logo - so cool - that would make even a grouchy person smile for sure. Your website is really well done too (I happen to be from Wilmington NC, "born and bred").

 

[SkyFrog]

Thanks Phil! That's awesome you're from Wilmington.

 

[herein2014]

As others have mentioned, being successful at photography/videography is a lot harder than people realize. Unless you are in the perfect market, doing RE only simply won't cut it. The biggest paying aerial photography industries right now definitely is not residential RE, it's construction and commercial real estate.

Commercial real estate is great because they have a much higher budget so you can charge more, the advertising company is usually in a whole different state so there is no way they are going to fly someone in just to take pictures of a local commercial listing, and your typical competition that just picked up a camera is not going to be able to produce the quality needed by commercial agents. Construction is one of my favorites as well, I used to contact every construction company in my area as soon as they broke ground and offered them construction video or photography footage. I now have long term contracts with most of the companies in my area for their sites; basically displacing the more expensive helicopter flyovers.

There are so many secrets to making money in this industry you just have to keep pushing the envelope until you find your niche. Residential real estate has such low margins and real estate agents hate paying if they can at all avoid it, so residential RE is really just one small part of my portfolio. I have seen $1M+ houses with nothing but cell phone pictures on Zillow, the ironic part is that it is usually the older population that has properties like that and they are the ones that are the least likely to realize their agents are screwing them over with terrible pictures.

You have to also do other types of photography and/or video such as events, lifestyle, fashion, modelling agencies, etc. The reality is that RE photography is one of the easiest forms of photography out there and it is also the lowest paying; I know a lot of wedding photographers who added RE photography to their portfolio just to have something easy to do when they got bored. I didn't add RE to my portfolio until drones came along because I saw the potential with construction sites and commercial real estate to make it worth my time.

Also, you will never succeed if you spend that much time in Lightroom and PS editing RE footage. I spend 10min tops on RE footage and only use LR unless I need to PS out a tripod, or flash hot spot. The secret is to get the lighting and composition perfect in camera then in post I use a batch preset to set my saturation, whites, blacks, sharpening, etc. settings. From there I go through each one individually, set the WB, align the image, and I'm done. I have a preset for aerial footage, a preset for exterior footage, and a preset for interior footage. Takes 30s to apply to all of the footage from properties that day. As far as onsite time, I typically spend 1hr per 2,000 sq/ft for interior/exterior footage.

Last but not least, I know plenty get by with "budget" equipment, and it is mostly the photographer that determines how well the footage turns out; but I will still say quality equipment is very important. Over the years every regret I have about buying equipment was when I did not get the better version. If you want to be able to shoot just about anything and in any conditions you cannot cut corners on your equipment. That may work for just RE photography but if you want to do this full time you absolutely need a full frame camera, the body should be weather sealed, the lenses should be pro series, etc,etc. In my opinion if budget is an issue, it is much better to get used Pro equipment, than new "budget" gear especially when it comes to full frame vs anything else and when it comes to lenses.

Every time I see someone say they are doing just fine with budget equipment I think to myself that they have no idea who is passing them by due to their portfolio or what jobs they did not get contacted for because there was someone else in the area that had better footage.

 

[QuadKid]

I do much better with High Rise Roof Inspections, My total investment is around $2,700 USD for P4P, $1mil in Liability Aviation Insurance, Part 107 Cert, Business cards & Website. Living in Central Florida we experience many hurricanes. The cost of putting a High Reach 2 man lift to reach a 12-20 story roof is around $3,000 a day, let alone the hassle of setting up and moving it around ( very non-cost effective ). Make a long story short I have done 4 roof inspections since IRMA passed thru at around $1,800 per roof. ( Word of mouth is the best advertising, especially within Condo Owners Associations )

Paid for my year in this "Hobby" ( I have a regular job that pays the bills ), real estate aerial is pretty much the low end of what can be done with a good drone. Just bought a Mavic Platinum to do supplemental aerial photo/video for weddings (much quieter than the P4P), I say supplemental because newlyweds want an established photographer with a long track record to take the critical shots. That being said they will gladly fork out $200-$300 to add some nice 4K aerials to their album. Beside free food & drink after the shoot !!

 

[VWTech]

As a licensed Real Estate agent and drone enthusiast I can add this. Agents get paid on commission. So if the house doesn't sell they receive no compensation. For that very fact agents will not pay out a lot of money for photos. Most take the photos themselves. On higher end homes agents may not take their own photos and opt to have them professionally taken.

 

[BigAl07]

As a licensed Real Estate agent and drone enthusiast I can add this. Agents get paid on commission. So if the house doesn't sell they receive no compensation. For that very fact agents will not pay out a lot of money for photos. Most take the photos themselves. On higher end homes agents may not take their own photos and opt to have them professionally taken.

This is why you've got to be more than just a "Drone Operator". You've got to be a sales person, video/photo editor, drone operator, and photographer. If you don't bring any real (or perceived) value to the table you're worthless to your clients. A good sales person can persuade an Eskimo to buy an air conditioner.

 

[teelions]

If you can't get in the front door then try the side door. Jobs, in any industry, are rarely given out to strangers who come a-knocking. Join the local Realtors Board as an affiliate and sponsor a meeting. Or place an ad in the Realtors Board newsletter. Yes all of these are going to cost you but ring up to advertising costs. Last year I co-sponsored an educational CEU seminar where 250 agents gathered to meet their educational credits to maintain their license (we're lucky not to have to do this...yet!). At the meeting I got to mingle with the agents at the pre-seminar's brunch, as well as the luncheon and happy hour afterwards. This was an all-day affair as there were several different subjects credits available to whomever needed what. In between the seminars the co-sponsors gave a presentation regarding their particular specialty, There was only one specialty per affair and so I was the only aerial photographer. I wowed them with my sizzle-reel and got 25 clients out of the deal. But you can only get into the educational CEU seminar circuit once you become an affiliate of the Realtors Board . If you can't beat them, join them! (they're not the enemy!)

 

[Drone Videos]

Hi, we are currently hiring if you are looking: Become a Drone Operator for DroneVideos.com

 

[Tim Foster]

Approach it a different way...the next realtor that you run into explain yourself and how you can help them out. Tell them to give you access to a prime property, you’ll shoot it and do it for free. Tell them that you could do this to every property if they like, it’s up to them. If they want to have par, or sub par to sell that’s their problem then. Get a buttery smooth kick [Language Removed] video in their hand that would blow them away. Let them keep it and know where you can be found. End of story...on to the next one. They don’t know until you show them, and sometimes you have to do the free work at first in order to lead to the BIG$$ G.L.

 

[BigAl07]

Approach it a different way...the next realtor that you run into explain yourself and how you can help them out. Tell them to give you access to a prime property, you’ll shoot it and do it for free. Tell them that you could do this to every property if they like, it’s up to them. If they want to have par, or sub par to sell that’s their problem then. Get a buttery smooth kick [Language Removed] video in their hand that would blow them away. Let them keep it and know where you can be found. End of story...on to the next one. They don’t know until you show them, and sometimes you have to do the free work at first in order to lead to the BIG$$ G.L.

It's very difficult to dig your way out of the cheap/free hole IMHO. Your time and efforts have a value and deserve a fair rate. If you don't value your time, why would they?

Try asking a REA if they will sell your first home for FREE with the stipulation you "might" use them for future home sales.

 

[FantomFrank]

Hey all. I'm new to this forum and to sUAS, and all very good input especially from BigAl!

I've been a real estate agent for 15 years and a professional photographer for... ever. But I'm very curious to know what city and state Briankbl lives in because if agents are shooting their own aerial photos and videos, then that tells me the real estate market is really slow and/or small-town in your area.

I know agents who still shoot photos using their smart phone, but I've never heard of any agents using their own time to take aerial shots when that agent's time is better spent marketing their client's home and garnishing new clients. Does your area have waterfront property, or great mountain and landscape views? If not, then offering aerial photography is sort of a mute point. Do you also offer still photography? If not, then spend $250 on a used Nikon D5100 and $500 on a new 11-22mm Tokina, and begin providing those services as well.

Briankbl, to get your foot in the door, I suggest that you painstakingly scour Zillow, Realtor.com, Redfin, and all other real estate websites in your expanded area, and then compile a list of list of agent's names and their email addresses, and then create a free email campaign with MailChimp.com (it's free) and send out a promotional emails to these agents and brokers. This is what I did when I launched my real estate photography business last year.

I first sent out an email that offered a FREE photo shoot that normally costs anywhere from $95, $125, or $165. I email a coupon code for the agent to use at time of online booking. In the email, I mentioned that I'm an experienced photographer and that this was a promotional offering to gain new clients. I know real estate agents pretty well and the second you mention something is "free," many agents will be jumping all over that. Trust me, I didn't give away a hundred free photo shoots, but I did get about a half dozens agents and brokers scheduling a shoot and in turn, that lead to word-of-mouth clients and now I have about 3-dozen agents and brokers that use me regularly.

A year later, I've had a few brokers and agents ask if I offer drone imagery, because they have listings on the beaches in Virginia Beach Virginia USA, and other agents have historic Colonial homes nestled in trees and sloping hillside. And with both of these situations, a drone provides a far better composition than the 30-foot painter's pole I have been using (yet works pretty well).

But all of this is what led me to buy a P4P a few weeks ago and after studying for the Part 107 test on-and-off for the past month, I'm taking the test next week and plan on sending out another mass email campaign. Sure, there are some brokers and offices that have their own in-house photographer, but that is few and far between at least in my area.

Curious Briankbl... where do you live and is it near water or in the city, mountain, etc.?

Frank

 

[Brojon]

As a licensed Real Estate agent and drone enthusiast I can add this. Agents get paid on commission. So if the house doesn't sell they receive no compensation. For that very fact agents will not pay out a lot of money for photos. Most take the photos themselves. On higher end homes agents may not take their own photos and opt to have them professionally taken.

Plus the one thing not mentioned is rights.
Unless it's a work for hire, you the photographer own the rights and can assign them as you see fit. Many Realtors have issue with this and this is why they train their own people - then it's a work for hire and they don't have to worry about it.
One of the local guys just had this issue. He made a video for a high end property. The property owner changed Realtors and the new Realtor wanted to use the same video. In fact he had licensed the image in such a way that he could do so and sold the video to the new listing. The previous Realtor wanted to sue since he believed he "owned" the video. Moral of the story is understand your rights as a creative artist. Learn copyright and make sure you license your images accordingly.
Anyway - good luck to you. As mentioned diversify. There are plenty of potential customers. The local paper would probably love some aerial images if they don't already have a staff photographer that has a 107. One local guy does video for the University of Texas. Advertise insurance property claims imaging.
Then there was the issue of workflow. Yeah, time is money. Try being a wedding photographer in today's slim margin market. You're expected to take hundreds of images and then you have to cull and process.
Best advice I can give there is learn how to automate the process. Set up a preset in Lightroom and apply it when you import. Don't forget to also fill in the IPTC metadata with copyrights and photographer info. Done correctly you can do 95% of your correctional work such as color balance and image enhancement settings like tone curves on import.
With video you can make your own LUT - then it's just snipping and joining the pieces together. Liberate yourself from the drudge work.

 

[RunningWithScissors]

A lot of good advice above. Somewhere in this long running thread I believe someone suggested diversification beyond just "residential real estate". If you focus on just that market, you'll limit yourself and could miss out on some other viable business opportunities. I think someone else suggested being creative and innovative. I believe business opportunities in a new field like UAV photography may limited only by the operator's imagination. A lot of people say they think "outside the box", and that's fine, For me, there is no box, so that limitatation doesn't distract or limit me. Just my two cents.