Flying over parks

[Yenrab]

I have been researching the laws and talking to directors of Maricopa County State Parks. What I am looking for is what law or laws there are about taking off from outside of the restricted area and flying over the parks. What specifically does "No flying within the park" mean? Taking off and landing? If I take off outside the boundry of a park, once airborn I am under FAA rule. If, while flying over the park, I break no park rules of noise, chasing wildlife etc and obey FAA rules, such as not flying over people, altitude restriction, etc, then why would I be afoul of the laws/policies/rules. I know the actual altitude is really controversial as far as trespass over private property is. I have seen 80 - 500 ft mentioned but nothing in black and white, so far.
Has anyone else seen, heard or read anything that would hold up in court. White Tank Mountain Park director just e-mailed me an nice response saying NO! I am looking for more info, advice and opinions on how to proceed.

 

[sar104]

It's not ambiguous - the Park Service memo requires NPS superintendents to prohibit launching, landing, or operating an unmanned aircraft from or on lands and waters administered by the National Park Service except as approved in writing by the superintendent. NPS has not claimed airspace jurisdiction.

 

[Yenrab]

I believe this notice indicates that local cities and county cannot independently restrict air space (from the ground up) without consultation with the FAA.
The Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) new fact sheet on state and local regulation of unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) provides information for states and municipalities considering laws or regulations addressing UAS use. The document outlines FAA's safety reasons for federal oversight of aviation and airspace, and explains federal responsibility in this area.

The fact sheet provides examples of state and local laws affecting UAS for which consultation with the FAA is recommended, such as restrictions on flight altitude or flight paths, regulation of the navigable airspace, and mandating UAS-specific equipment or training.

The fact sheet also gives examples of UAS laws likely to fall within state and local government authority, such as requirements for police to obtain a warrant prior to using UAS for surveillance; prohibitions on the use of UAS for voyeurism; exclusions on using UAS for hunting or fishing, or harassing individuals engaged in those activities; and prohibitions on attaching firearms or other weapons to a UAS.

Busting Myths about the FAA and Unmanned Aircraft

>Read fact sheet (PDF)

 

[Mark The Droner]

Re flying over a park... can you do it as a hobbyist?

The park says no. The FAA says no. But my understanding of the law, as it's written, is yes, provided you follow all the other rules of unmanned flight.

This has yet to be challenged in court, but seems to me there is no law being broken.

The trick is to do it while at the same time follow the VLOS rule, and if you do that, you're not going to get very deep into the park, so it's kind of a lost cause.

 

[BigAl07]

Re flying over a park... can you do it as a hobbyist?

The park says no. The FAA says no. But my understanding of the law, as it's written, is yes, provided you follow all the other rules of unmanned flight.

This has yet to be challenged in court, but seems to me there is no law being broken.

Until challenged it's going to remain a resounding NO! When challenged it might change but keep in mind it might change for the worse. The grey area being removed might not work in our favor.

The trick is to do it while at the same time follow the VLOS rule, and if you do that, you're not going to get very deep into the park, so it's kind of a lost cause.

BINGO!

Also keep in mind that other local ordinances can come into play such as reckless behavior, noise abatement violations, wildlife harassment and the list could go on and on if need be.

 

[Yenrab]

You are correct. However, there are areas in the White Tanks that are accessable outside the park. Some from BLM land or State Trust that as long as you have a recreational permit we are fine. Skyline park in Buckeye is on the south edge of the White Tanks and there is no issue flying there. As long as no one acts ignorant and respect not only the law but common curtesy this could show how they can actually benifit the parks by our participation. I do not want to pre emptively challenge the parks but am working to get an understanding of what to date is an unknown factor. Most past restrictions have found ways to accomadate the public. Wilderness permits, recreational permits and various other contol methods have been established that make it possible, for those who choose to enjoy the freedoms and beauty of this country, accessable. It we don't explore the borders, it is too easy for the authorities just to say No. The FAA btw does not say no about over flight of areas. When they do they issue a TFR/NOTAM to that effect. Otherwise they dictate, from the ground up, flight areas.
All of the other issues have and are being addressed as to noise, wildlife etc. Let's fly safely and enjoy our environment as best we can.

 

[Mark The Droner]

...The FAA btw does not say no about over flight of areas. When they do they issue a TFR/NOTAM to that effect. ....

Skip ahead to 14:40

 

[BigAl07]

@Yenrab We will have to respectfully agree to disagree on this topic I'm afraid. I live next to and spend a LOT of time in Wilderness Areas and the very last thing I want to see or hear is a UAS buzzing around while I'm out getting away from society and technology. My goal is to completely disconnect with society and enjoy nature as it was intended.

Many of the areas I'm talking about don't even allow trail signage as to keep the area natural for all who want to venture in. A UAS zooming around from peak to peak would generally spoil the very reason for our Wilderness areas to begin with.

 

[sar104]

Skip ahead to 14:40

Well that video was quite remarkably full of rambling opinions almost entirely divorced from actual law or regulation. In respect of the specific question of flying from outside parks she referenced no regulations at all, probably because there is no NPS regulation or rule to that effect and thus no documented support from the FAA for such a rule.