Fell Out of Sky - Total Loss

[LuvMyTJ]

Yes, but who's at fault, for that circumstance?
A forum moderator, told @Tahoe_Ed he had no authority here.
So he merrily walked out the forum entrance.
He Didn't look over his shoulder.

RedHotPoker

Please do not spread rumors. First off, I am not the mod in question. Aside from that, they are still members, but do not participate any longer. The reason they no longer are active was over a member here who leaked some private info about upcoming features (long released now). It was a very unfortunate situation as the member had no business releasing that info to the public early. It is to bad the two DJI representatives that were here left as the offender was one member here (who also no longer participates), and their (DJI reps), continued participation here would of been positive for DJI and consumers who invested in DJI products.

 

[MattyDread]

Listen to him!

 

[mirrorimage]

Flew my Vision Plus for about 7 months and bought this P2A on release date. Never had any problems... until tonight. Wanted to get some night shots so I drove out and got permission. Set drone up and waited about 45 seconds for it to warm up. Started the motors and got a home lock. Manually launched about 30' in the air and hovered for about 3 seconds. All of a sudden everything shut down. No motors, no lights. Fell right down onto the parking lot. Battery bounced out, camera was ripped off and landing gear was bent.

I've posted the photos of the damage and here is the link to the flight logs.
HealthyDrones.com - Innovative flight data analysis that matters
Nothing to see as I read it as it was only in the air for about 5 seconds. No errors.

I'm set to fly down to Florida next week and worked the P3 into those plans. Very bad timing. So I think I'm going to buy another one locally before I leave next week. Kills me that I need to spend another $1250 out of my pocket but this is the price paid for such a hobby. I'll be buying from Drone Etc as they are local. They alos give quotes on repairs so I might drop the old one off to them and see if it might be worth repairing to sell. If nothing else, I'll see about getting one with the new motors. I'm one who does not think there is any real difference but it might make me feel a bit better about the purchase. Also, there is a deal right now for a free DJI case and I can save $50 to offset local tax.

View attachment 37695 View attachment 37696

I'm sorry for you loss. I went through it recently. DJI support is hell.
Is the bubble glass in your camera uncracked with good focus? My replacement P3P I just got has a soft focus issue. Rather than wait another 3 months on DJI, I'm considering tearing my camera apart and replacing the bubble glass. Any chance you want to sell that part off the camera for spare parts?

 

[Flyer91]

Sorry to read that.

Maybe a BNF can save you some coin, or if you planning to buy a whole new RTF, then Jet has them for $1113.99 delivered in 3 to 7 business days (although it sounds that might not work for you) if you are a first time customer and use code ... ANDROID20 ... to get 20% off (up to $50) at checkout from their advertised price of of $1,163.99.
You can also get another $23.63 off ... lowering it to a total of $1090.36 if you check the box to opt out of their free return policy, at check out.

See: Jet.com

 

[RedHotPoker]

Please do not spread rumors. First off, I am not the mod in question. Aside from that, they are still members, but do not participate any longer. The reason they no longer are active was over a member here who leaked some private info about upcoming features (long released now). It was a very unfortunate situation as the member had no business releasing that info to the public early. It is to bad the two DJI representatives that were here left as the offender was one member here (who also no longer participates), and their (DJI reps), continued participation here would of been positive for DJI and consumers who invested in DJI products.

And, the said forum member was asked by @Tahoe_Ed to kindly remove the info, and then. . . .? Unkind words were exchanged. Yes, I recall that.
If I am mistaken, please kindly post a link to the thread, if it still exists, so that I can correct my memory. Thanks.


RedHotPoker

 

[Reed L]

SO 61% and it fell from the sky. After thinking about it, what if.... By putting it in at 61% after it has discharged to this, to me... obviously it didn't have a good connection. So my thinking is that it's not that intelligent of a battery, meaning that it's starting to look like it must be at 100% or 90%+ to establish a "full contact connection" needed between the battery and the P3. Being that it was only 61% or whatever, suggests that there is a cut off point somewhere above the 61% as far as complete connectivity. What I mean is, if you started off the day with 100% and took it down to 60% without taking the battery out, and then took off again, the connection was made when it was put in 7 minutes before (+-) . But being that the battery this time was left out until it discharged itself down to the 60%, the battery didn't have enough power (whether it be considered volts or amps) left in it to establish the complete connection needed to establish the "full contact connection". Like in a car, when it won't start on a cold day, you pop the hood and see if the positive lead will turn on its own, if it does, you wiggle it back and forth a couple times and the car has the connection needed and starts right up. Because the connections in the P3 are slip in, in order to basically pull the two parts together, you need enough voltage in the first place and at the 61%, they didn't have enough voltage to pull together and establish full contact. It was enough to take off, but being it wasn't complete, a few seconds later... it dropped the partial connection. So the question is, does the drone have a safety cut off built in and when the connection will not totally complete itself after a few seconds, it shuts itself back off, whether in the air or not? You all can see where I'm going on this. Basically you want to start out with a fully charged battery because it's needed to establish the complete connection. Obviously, this is just a theory... so take it as is...

 

[RedHotPoker]

I brought a shovel. And can dig it man. ;-)

If I stick a metal fork in the toaster, to retrieve my crusty morsel, does the toaster have to be plugged in? Because I like to give it a darn good shake, over the kitchen sink too. Ha

RedHotPoker

 

[4wd]

Part of my issue was that the batteries were charged at 100%... it's just that the auto discharge had kicked in and I did not realize it. .

This seems to be the crucial factor.
Somehow a battery which is part way through auto discharge is DANGEROUS to use.
If you take off having part used the battery in flight a few hours before it's *probably* OK

 

[robinb]

I have had a partially discharged battery give me critical warning at over 50% charge.
Also from the healtydrones site your cell 3 is 0.5 volt down which is not good.

 

[Dome]

This seems to be the crucial factor.
Somehow a battery which is part way through auto discharge is DANGEROUS to use.
If you take off having part used the battery in flight a few hours before it's *probably* OK

There's NO REASON why a partially discarged battery cannot be used !!
The autodischarge factor can be one explanation .. but this is an other bad feature (bug) of the intelligent battery firmware. I'm in contatct with DJI for other issues on battery firmware regarding cell voltage sensor.

 

[LuvMyTJ]

And, the said forum member was asked by @Tahoe_Ed to kindly remove the info, and then. . . .? Unkind words were exchanged. Yes, I recall that.
If I am mistaken, please kindly post a link to the thread, if it still exists, so that I can correct my memory. Thanks.


RedHotPoker

Of course there were words over it, they were not happy the info was leaked. But that is not the topic here. I just wanted to clarify what had happened. You can contact me privately if you have any other questions. Thanks.

SO 61% and it fell from the sky. After thinking about it, what if.... By putting it in at 61% after it has discharged to this, to me... obviously it didn't have a good connection. So my thinking is that it's not that intelligent of a battery, meaning that it's starting to look like it must be at 100% or 90%+ to establish a "full contact connection" needed between the battery and the P3. Being that it was only 61% or whatever, suggests that there is a cut off point somewhere above the 61% as far as complete connectivity. What I mean is, if you started off the day with 100% and took it down to 60% without taking the battery out, and then took off again, the connection was made when it was put in 7 minutes before (+-) . But being that the battery this time was left out until it discharged itself down to the 60%, the battery didn't have enough power (whether it be considered volts or amps) left in it to establish the complete connection needed to establish the "full contact connection". Like in a car, when it won't start on a cold day, you pop the hood and see if the positive lead will turn on its own, if it does, you wiggle it back and forth a couple times and the car has the connection needed and starts right up. Because the connections in the P3 are slip in, in order to basically pull the two parts together, you need enough voltage in the first place and at the 61%, they didn't have enough voltage to pull together and establish full contact. It was enough to take off, but being it wasn't complete, a few seconds later... it dropped the partial connection. So the question is, does the drone have a safety cut off built in and when the connection will not totally complete itself after a few seconds, it shuts itself back off, whether in the air or not? You all can see where I'm going on this. Basically you want to start out with a fully charged battery because it's needed to establish the complete connection. Obviously, this is just a theory... so take it as is...

I use DeoxIT Gold on all my electrical connections other it be my UAV's, RC crawlers, my DSLR, etc. Well worth the few bucks for the tube as a little goes a long ways. I haven't owned my P3 for long and I have had zero issues so far. I have however flown my P2 for two years, also with no problems and I have used partially charged batteries.
I don't understand your theory on the battery terminals. If you find a loose battery terminal on a car that is abnormal, it should be tight. A properly seated P3 battery is normal and requires no repair. And what do you mean by "pull the two parts together"? Are you referring to the battery main power contacts that the male spade connector on the bird side slide into? Also, the two lower pins detect the batteries data. The battery contacts were redesigned on the P2 as they had problems with them losing contact from the lower two pins and dropping from the sky. Sometimes people don't have their battery fully locked in and it shifts enough to break connection and it falls. There are many reasons this could happen so I feel it is premature to say that a partially charged battery will increase your risk of complete power failure.

Here are the new & old style contacts -

 

[WetDog]

This is getting a bit old and interesting.

Partially discharged battery. Possibly going through auto discharge. Immediate drop-from-the-sky behavior.

1) If it hurts when you do something, don't do it.
2) DON'T fly on a battery that hasn't been 100% charged. Seems OK to use that battery THAT DAY until 50% if you started from 100%. Otherwise, toss it back in the charger.
3) Batteries are cheaper than the rest of the drone.

DJI really should be able to do something about this. Perhaps stress the battery during checkout. Until they do, it's a very good idea to stress it yourself before gaining altitude.

Sigh.

 

[Erroll]

It was enough to take off, but being it wasn't complete, a few seconds later... it dropped the partial connection........................Basically you want to start out with a fully charged battery because it's needed to establish the complete connection. Obviously, this is just a theory...

Electricity simply does not work like you are trying to describe it.

 

[phantom13flyer]

Lol

 

[Wibble]

Why should @dji be responsible to babysit your panty waist? Charge your F'ing (flying) battery before you take off.
That's probably why they included a charger in every kit. ;-)

RedHotPoker

There is NO firm evidence that this is the problem!
What about a battery that is at 97% or 98%?
I ALWAYS charge mine up but I dont think you will do a battery any favours trying to get that last drop of power into it.
There do seem to be a higher than average number of these crashes happening at say 50% charge but this isnt proof. DJI should sort this out. Why does the battery have to be "intelligent"? Surely losing power gradually so you can just bring it down is preferable to a sudden switch off and drop?

 

[Erroll]

There is NO firm evidence that this is the problem!
What about a battery that is at 97% or 98%?
I ALWAYS charge mine up but I dont think you will do a battery any favours trying to get that last drop of power into it.
There do seem to be a higher than average number of these crashes happening at say 50% charge but this isnt proof. DJI should sort this out. Why does the battery have to be "intelligent"? Surely losing power gradually so you can just bring it down is preferable to a sudden switch off and drop?

Exactly.

 

[Mark The Droner]

There's NO REASON why a partially discarged battery cannot be used !!
...

I don't understand this post. If the manual says to be sure your battery is fully charged before every flight, doesn't that qualify as a REASON not to use a partially discharged battery?

And if not, what about the DOZENS of threads from pilots who have lost their crafts due to batteries abruptly shutting down? What do they all seem to have in common? Partially charged batteries!

So there are two good reasons.

It doesn't really matter whether it makes sense or not. What matters is that we stop tempting fate and do what DJI suggests.

Sorry for your loss Tcope. Thank-you for the thread.

 

[Volantis]

Yup. Don't usually do it. But does not justify entire power loss. I'm not blaming anyone.

It isn't like you can argue with the battery, anyway.

These batteries are lithium ion batteries, and they can become unstable over time. So DJI has the batteries drain themselves to a safe level if they sit for the amount of time you have set in your settings. Ironically, this actually prolongs the life of the battery when used properly.

I do not understand the mechanics of what is happening during this discharge process, but it seems to be that all the remaining charge you see on your display panel is for a single cell. All the other cells are drained. When you take off at 51% or 61% of that single cell, you really only have a small fraction of the total battery charge available to fly.

I am not a DJI battery engineer, so I am just guessing based on the evidence I have seen on these groups. My working understanding may be totally wrong, but it helps me to make the decision to recharge batteries that have sit for more than a week, just before flying with them. One thing is certain, DJI drones do fall out of the sky regularly because people fly with system-drained batteries.

 

[TrynFlyn]

Sorry to the OP...but completely user error. Not a DJI issue.

Taking off in 32 degree (F) or less temperature, with a battery at 61%, no warm up, then straight to 40+ feet altitude.

Can't believe people want DJI to do something about this "issue"

 

[Mark The Droner]

...
These batteries are lithium ion batteries, and ...

I hate to nit-pic, but these are not really lithium ion batteries. They are lithium ion polymer batteries, or more commonly lithium polymer batteries (abbreviated "Li-Poly" or "Li-Po") which have technologically evolved from lithium ion batteries. They are a little different in terms of how we maintain them, but your point is well taken.