FAA Registration Rules Announced NOW

[Meta4]

First it's registration, then there going to be inspection. Inspection? What do you mean?

OK, I'll explain sincere you asked. Twice a year there will be FAA inspectors coming to your house to inspect your drone data recorder. They will view all your flights, and if they see any violations they will either issue you a fine or confiscate your drone or maybe even arrest you.

TC ... you're really straying a long way from reality with this.
It would be interesting to see where you get this from.
If it's humour I'm laughing.
If you're serious ... hmmmmm

Here's an oldie and a goodie from Buffalo Springfield

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the men come and take you away​

 

[aka1ceman]

I do find your choice of words interesting. Why would I "fear" anything about this? I don't _like_ registration. I don't see the need for it. I don't think it makes anyone safer. Why on earth would I "fear" it? I find that an odd assumption.

As Joe said and I agree.

 

[ianwood]

The FAA posted this today on local regulation:

http://www.faa.gov/uas/regulations_policies/media/UAS_Fact_Sheet_Final.pdf

 

[joe21]

This is a very appropriate point. Driving is not an inherent right. If you can't prove you can do it safely, you don't get to drive on public roads. Plain and simple. Same should apply for drones.

Many cities have enacted Draconian (and mostly illegal) drone laws to handle the knucklehead lowest common denominator.

The only way to fix it is to create a drone license. Make it hard to get. As in you have to actually demonstrate knowledge and skill (and not just have a pulse like a typical US driving license). Then cities can forego these ridiculous knee-jerk laws. Cops "pull over" unlicensed drone operators. The end.

What you write makes sense, but it can also be considered sophistry.

There are plenty of activities which can be argued as a "privilege" vs a "right." Which this hobby falls into is debatable. The same holds true for other activities which do require registration. If you want to get technical and cite the constitution - note that being in the constitution should make it clear that the activity is an inalienable right. That does NOT mean lack of mention in the same document automatically turns it into a privilege to be controlled and regulated by the government.

I also think the driving analogy is absurd. I have never seen or heard of thousands of drones cramming into a narrow flight path to all head in the same direction at the same time (rush hour on the expressway). Are that many drones crashing into each other at intersections? Even using the horribly flawed driving analogy, you ignore that RC cars are NOT licensed or regulated. Neither are smaller vehicles such as ATVs. Further, on private property registration, insurance and licensing requirements usually disappear. (Let's not get back into the "you don't own the air over your property" claim which has been shown as false.)

Thus the car analogy falls apart. Sure, register/license the truck and family car (DC-110 and Cessna) but not the ATV (Phantom).

Shoot me for writing this, but these small drones are toys. As hobbyists, we are playing and having fun. I'm sure that will tick off the ultra-serious "I'm a real pilot" types here, but it is what it is.

When I was young I had a collection of Tonka trucks. I never deluded myself into believing I was operating a massive crane or dump truck. I knew I was playing with a toy.

Still, if I dropped that heavy, solid steel toy from my grandmother's second floor apartment in Brooklyn, the person on the sidewalk would have been carried away in a hearse. That "toy" could more damage than my P3. Amazingly, no such injury every happened (well, there was an incident with GI Joe but that was mission related).

Should a kid need a license and registration to operate that Tonka truck? "Playing with toys" is, after all, a privilege and not a "right."

You feel a "drone license" is the answer. That's a valid opinion. I and others disagree and rely more on personal responsibility than government oversight to coexist with others in society.

I feel I have a "right" to be left the heck alone by the government and not bothered unless I am doing something wrong. That concept is one this country was founded on. Unfortunately, as government has become bigger and more intrusive, many people have been taught to accept the opposite.

And what's with all the name-calling? "Knucklehead lowest common denominator" is a fabrication of the media. Just go on You Tube and you can see plenty of people doing dumb things, many which are considerable more dangerous than anything done with a quad copter. For whatever reason, there is no media outcry about those (hopefully) isolated incidents. Instead, they are celebrated on "Tosh."

 

[aka1ceman]

If you think it would be interesting to see where he gets this from if he's serious, why do you call him paranoid and laugh at him and tell him to get back on the medication? Why not simply ask him for more information?

Thank you Ryno. I think you have brought more info to the table than anyone. Everyone can see you did your homework even though some would you rather fail class...

 

[davis]

What you write makes sense, but it can also be considered sophistry.

There are plenty of activities which can be argued as a "privilege" vs a "right." Which this hobby falls into is debatable. The same holds true for other activities which do require registration. If you want to get technical and cite the constitution - note that being in the constitution should make it clear that the activity is an inalienable right. That does NOT mean lack of mention in the same document automatically turns it into a privilege to be controlled and regulated by the government.

I also think the driving analogy is absurd. I have never seen or heard of thousands of drones cramming into a narrow flight path to all head in the same direction at the same time (rush hour on the expressway). Are that many drones crashing into each other at intersections? Even using the horribly flawed driving analogy, you ignore that RC cars are NOT licensed or regulated. Neither are smaller vehicles such as ATVs. Further, on private property registration, insurance and licensing requirements usually disappear. (Let's not get back into the "you don't own the air over your property" claim which has been shown as false.)

Thus the car analogy falls apart. Sure, register/license the truck and family car (DC-110 and Cessna) but not the ATV (Phantom).

Shoot me for writing this, but these small drones are toys. As hobbyists, we are playing and having fun. I'm sure that will tick off the ultra-serious "I'm a real pilot" types here, but it is what it is.

When I was young I had a collection of Tonka trucks. I never deluded myself into believing I was operating a massive crane or dump truck. I knew I was playing with a toy.

Still, if I dropped that heavy, solid steel toy from my grandmother's second floor apartment in Brooklyn, the person on the sidewalk would have been carried away in a hearse. That "toy" could more damage than my P3. Amazingly, no such injury every happened (well, there was an incident with GI Joe but that was mission related).

Should a kid need a license and registration to operate that Tonka truck? "Playing with toys" is, after all, a privilege and not a "right."

You feel a "drone license" is the answer. That's a valid opinion. I and others disagree and rely more on personal responsibility than government oversight to coexist with others in society.

I feel I have a "right" to be left the heck alone by the government and not bothered unless I am doing something wrong. That concept is one this country was founded on. Unfortunately, as government has become bigger and more intrusive, many people have been taught to accept the opposite.

And what's with all the name-calling? "Knucklehead lowest common denominator" is a fabrication of the media. Just go on You Tube and you can see plenty of people doing dumb things, many which are considerable more dangerous than anything done with a quad copter. For whatever reason, there is no media outcry about those (hopefully) isolated incidents. Instead, they are celebrated on "Tosh."

unfortunately we've passed that point of "self responsibility" when some operators have lost control of their aircraft in public areas. the liability seems to outweigh the risks.
its not a toy when someone pays you for photos or video for commercial use. we see them used for tv commercials and movies now. just sayin.

 

[davis]

just got an email from AMA. they are asking members to hold off registering until Feb 19th. And to voice their comments to the FAA. they are trying to appeal this registration program.
just fyi guys.

 

[ianwood]

Even using the horribly flawed driving analogy, you ignore that RC cars are NOT licensed or regulated. Neither are smaller vehicles such as ATVs.

The analogy fits better than any other. When used outdoors, drones share airspace like cars share the road and like boats share the waterways. Unregistered vehicles like ATVs can't be used on public roads. Same with RC cars. If you want to fly your drone indoors, you don't need to register. Outdoors, no matter where in the US you are, you are in the national airspace which is shared and thus requires rules and accountability.

Shoot me for writing this, but these small drones are toys. As hobbyists, we are playing and having fun. I'm sure that will tick off the ultra-serious "I'm a real pilot" types here, but it is what it is.

That toy can fly several thousand feet up. That toy can fly 8 miles horizontally. That toy can travel at up to 40MPH. That toy can fracture the windscreen of a helicopter or small plane. That toy can be fitted with carbon fiber blades that can cause deep lacerations. That toy can be programmed to fly an autonomous route. If it's a toy, it's a very powerful one.

And when I am not flying drones, I am occasionally a "real pilot" flying Cessnas on the weekends. My biggest fear is YOUR drone.

I feel I have a "right" to be left the heck alone by the government and not bothered unless I am doing something wrong. That concept is one this country was founded on. Unfortunately, as government has become bigger and more intrusive, many people have been taught to accept the opposite.

400,000 drones will be sitting under US xmas trees this season. That's almost a doubling of the existing amount. If it doesn't get regulated now, it will be mayhem later. Many people will be responsible. Many will not.

 

[davis]

What is the very very worst result that has come from some minority of drone operators stupidly or criminally flying their tiny plastic drones? Can you, or somebody else, share that? Airliner crashed? Airplane crashed? I would imagine it has to be some kind of fatality or life altering injury. You and others seem to paint a real threat from these devices, and I'm legitimately curious what the very worst thing has been in America as a result of a drone flight (not counting military drones, of course, they're super cool and good for the American people's safety when they're not being killed by them).

i saw quite a few drones at the IDE show in LA. some mfrs are angling for niche markets like police, search and rescue, swat, all weather/heat detection, farming etc. super high tech. makes the P3 look like a p3.

 

[TC Malker]

I'm no Constitutional scholar or anything, but I do know that the Declaration of Independence guarantees me the pursuit of happiness. And since I truly enjoy flying my drone I'm going to say it's a right and not privilege.

 

[Helijoc]

We are having this hot debate but what it comes down to is technology. Everyone has to relax. A few years from now we will be looking at hive technology and collision avoidance as the topic. We are on the leading edge of something new that people will have to get used to.

 

[ianwood]

 

[damitjim01]

That toy can fly several thousand feet up. That toy can fly 8 miles horizontally.

Neither of which is permitted under the rules.... just for the record.

What I'm interested in, is if VLOS is still a requirement, how is Amazon going to deliver packages? Wouldn't it be just as easy to take it to the house if you can only go to the limit of unaided VLOS?

 

[ianwood]

Birds have built in sense and avoid. Drones don't. Yet.

 

[GoodnNuff]

This is a good post. But fractured windscreens? That kind of damage is given to cars in parking lots or from rocks thrown on the highway many times more every day, I would imagine. But 400,000 drones or a million drones does multiply them. How many birds weigh more than .55 pounds in the U.S. though? Outside of bird cannons, they're not much regulated. They're also not a big deal. A bird strike here or there, happens frequently, but isn't a real concern. There are some exceptions but they are rare. The real threat is flocks of birds.

Interestingly enough, a "flock" of .54 pound drones flying in a swarm would not need to be registered and yet would be a more realistic threat to aviation.

Here is what a 5 lb seagull does to a windshield. That is about the same weight as my P3P, a bit lighter than some of my other drones.

 

[ianwood]

Neither of which is permitted under the rules.... just for the record.

What I'm interested in, is if VLOS is still a requirement, how is Amazon going to deliver packages? Wouldn't it be just as easy to take it to the house if you can only go to the limit of unaided VLOS?

True. And it is the primary reason we need accountability. Very soon, there will be receivers to detect an electronic signature from your drone which LEOs will be able to use to look up the registration. I am just guessing but your P3 already has a unique identifier in its transmission.

Amazon will a have a bunch of special COAs if they get what they want. That will be a long while yet.

 

[ianwood]

And what was the result of this thing glassed slow moving aircraft? Fatality? Injury? This kind of damage is inconvenient but it happens on highways daily. What was the bird strike capability of that glass? Was it even glass, or just Plexiglas? It looks very thin.

Cars can pull over to the side of the road when something goes wrong. Planes and helicopters can not. The material is unknown but it wasn't an animal that hit.

 

[joe21]

unfortunately we've passed that point of "self responsibility" when some operators have lost control of their aircraft in public areas. the liability seems to outweigh the risks.
its not a toy when someone pays you for photos or video for commercial use. we see them used for tv commercials and movies now. just sayin.

That's the $64,000 question. I have never seen a drone operator act irresponsibly. Have you personally seen evidence of this epidemic? All I have to back that up is the hysteria generated by a 24-hour news cycle. These are the same folks who would have me believe that a missing Malaysian jet was the most important story in the world for more than three months. Whether or not you believe it is a non-issue, I cannot fathom an argument where registration makes anything safer. Why not just make a rule prohibiting the loss of aircraft control? Will that, with or without registration, prevent any aircraft from losing control? Of course not.

Rules cannot and do not prevent things from happening. They merely set up a framework for punishing violators of those rules - after the fact. Registration does even less as it does not prohibit anything or prevent anything from happening.

My point and shoot camera is not a "professional" camera if I use it to shoot a magazine cover (and I have done that). Large scale commercial operations are already regulated (to the point of hampering business opportunities). That still has nothing to do with this conversation. By the same token, treating someone who videos a single home as a "commercial" operator with reams of absurd requirements and exemptions makes no sense. It is a solution to a problem which doesn't exist.

 

[Helijoc]

That hasn't been my experience in 5000 hours of flying, other than when you get really close they tend to tuck and dive...even when you're under them. I don't get the impression that their sense and avoid is very good at all. Nearly worthless. But then my experience is based on the birds I have seen, so perhaps it's limited by all those birds that I didn't see because they sensed and avoided me. I'm no bird expert.

I agree with you completely that drones don't. Unless they are flown in LOS as they should be, in which case I think the human has a pretty good ability to see and avoid although it's far from perfect. Hard to tell altitude from the ground.

Seagulls for one will dive out of the way when you approach. But as you probably know Hawks are fearless. I have avoided them many times. I see a quad as a hawk I need to avoid.

 

[ianwood]

That hasn't been my experience in 5000 hours of flying, other than when you get really close they tend to tuck and dive...even when you're under them. I don't get the impression that their sense and avoid is very good at all. Nearly worthless. But then my experience is based on the birds I have seen, so perhaps it's limited by all those birds that I didn't see because they sensed and avoided me. I'm no bird expert.

I agree with you completely that drones don't. Unless they are flown in LOS as they should be, in which case I think the human has a pretty good ability to see and avoid although it's far from perfect. Hard to tell altitude from the ground.

Altitude is really hard to tell from the ground which is why I actually have an issue with pure VLOS flight. I think it's actually safer to use a combination of VLOS and FPV to get bearings. Both are necessary.

As for birds, I have less than 100 hours so your knowledge is way better than mine. But even with their minimal avoidance techniques, it's gonna be better than anyone operating a drone from the ground. Once some sort of automated traffic management system is introduced, things will be a lot safer. That could be several years given the FAA's pace.