"drone will be impounded"

[ribjig]

Asked Coral Gables FL police officer at public event
about flying drone in Coral Gables. No, because
entire city within 5 miles of MIA. Asked what happens
if someone does so by mistake...

"we will write you up & drone will be impounded"

Wondering if anyone reading this has had drone
impounded & circumstances, if willing to say. Thanks.

 

[smiller]

What law gives them that right? Exactly what section would you be 'written up' for?

 

[ribjig]

"the drone would be impounded" was definite.
the "written" part I don't specifically remember
if it was "written up" or "a report would be written"
or something similar. As to laws of specific locals,
am NOT an authority...

 

[MapMaker53]

From the FAA website regarding recreational drone flying.

"Airports
Recreational operators are required to give notice for flights within five miles of an airport to BOTH the airport operator and air traffic control tower, if the airport has a tower. However, recreational operations are not permitted in Class B airspace around most major airports without specific air traffic permission and coordination."

Most of Coral Gables lies withing the inner-most Class B Airspace of Miami International Airport, which is generally considered a no-fly zone from ground surface to 7,000 ft altitude within that area. Good luck getting permission to fly in it. That is what gives the police the authority to write you up (I assume that means fine you) and impound your drone. And it will probably be an FAA fine, not a Coral Gables fine.

 

[ribjig]

Thanks for authoritative verification!
No interest here in challenging 5-mile rule on a $5 FAA license.
Related:
Miami area show a number of helicopter landing pads
on B4Ufly app. Is 5-mile rule specifically "airports" only?
(airports of all sizes, of course)

 

[smiller]

From the FAA website regarding recreational drone flying.

"Airports
Recreational operators are required to give notice for flights within five miles of an airport to BOTH the airport operator and air traffic control tower, if the airport has a tower. However, recreational operations are not permitted in Class B airspace around most major airports without specific air traffic permission and coordination."

Most of Coral Gables lies withing the inner-most Class B Airspace of Miami International Airport, which is generally considered a no-fly zone from ground surface to 7,000 ft altitude within that area. Good luck getting permission to fly in it. That is what gives the police the authority to write you up (I assume that means fine you) and impound your drone. And it will probably be an FAA fine, not a Coral Gables fine.

The local police do not have the authority to 'write you up' and/or impound personal property on the basis of a FAA airspace violation (unless there is also a specific state or local statute prohibiting it, and I would love to see someone post that.)

 

[ribjig]

> local police do not have the authority to 'write you up' and/or impound personal property on the basis of a FAA airspace violation
=====
Local police have authority wrt takeoff & landing, if illegal...?
Hand takeoff & landing still puts one's feet on-in jurisdiction's ground...?
(similar to nat. parks)

 

[smiller]

> local police do not have the authority to 'write you up' and/or impound personal property on the basis of a FAA airspace violation
=====
Local police have authority wrt takeoff & landing, if illegal...?
Hand takeoff & landing still puts one's feet on-in jurisdiction...?

Local police can enforce any specific state or local statute on flying drones (to the extent that they exist, and are not just made up by the LEO on site) but they cannot enforce strictly federal regulations such as FAA airspace violations. To the extent that a state law mirrors a federal law then of course it can be enforced (because it is actually the state or local law that is being enforced, not the federal.) Show me where either Florida state law or Coral Gables municipal law describes airspace regulations.

 

[MapMaker53]

I believe all the local police need is an FAA request (or standing request) for assistance in protecting the safety of their airspace. The FAA doesn't have agents patrolling neighborhoods.

Put it more simply, the FAA feels that flying a drone in Class B airspace without their authorization is endangering airport traffic, the lives of those on board their planes, and the surrounding neighborhood should a plane crash as a result. The local police have a duty to protect the safety of the citizens in their jurisdiction, and based on the FAA assessment of the situation being unsafe for their aircraft, the local police have full authority to protect the surrounding neighborhoods by writing you up for endangering the lives of the people on the ground and impound your drone. The FAA can fine you for endangering the lives of those on the aircraft. Pretty straight forward.

 

[smiller]

I believe all the local police need is an FAA request (or standing request) for assistance in protecting the safety of their airspace.

I don't know how many different ways there are to explain it, but... nope.

 

[MapMaker53]

Ok, so you can fly the drone, have it confiscated and be issued a fine, and then try to fight it in court.

The town I live in has no specific law stating that I cannot run down main street swinging a machete around, but the police have the authority to stop me and take it away from me if in their opinion I am endangering the public. No matter what activity you are engaged in, if the police feel you are endangering others, they have a right to stop you. You, in turn, have the right to then use the court system to fight the charge if you feel it is unjust. But if you are flying in Class B airspace and you decide to fight your local fine and impounding of the drone it in court, at some point the FAA will become involved and you will have to deal directly with them. One needs to be careful when choosing his or her battles.

 

[smiller]

A LEO can act extra-legally, either out of malice or simple ignorance, that will always be true. I'm only saying that local police do not have the authority to enforce FARs, and if they want to take your drone they need a basis in state or local law. As to the 'it's better to avoid any hassle' (regardless of your legal rights) then that is a personal decision, but refusing to object to illegal exercise of authority doesn't do any of us any good, whether it is regarding drones or anything else.

 

[lickitysplit11111]

The town I live in has no specific law stating that I cannot run down main street swinging a machete around,

Guess again Yes they do and you deserve to be locked up for that and hopefully a mental evaluation .
Horrible example..

 

[THA]

> local police do not have the authority to 'write you up' and/or impound personal property on the basis of a FAA airspace violation
=====
Local police have authority wrt takeoff & landing, if illegal...?
Hand takeoff & landing still puts one's feet on-in jurisdiction's ground...?
(similar to nat. parks)

I would disagree with "write you up" It could mean that they could write you up on a report and then submit said report to the FAA and they would follow up using the local police as witness to FAA violation.

 

[yorlik]

Guess again Yes they do and you deserve to be locked up for that and hopefully a mental evaluation .
Horrible example..

Huh? For real? And what is the code number of this antimachete ordnance?

 

[KongWerks]

They can just go with "public nuisance" for the drone and some sort of brandishing a weapon for the machete.

They shoot people for sitting in their car nowadays so arguing about your drone (or machete) might get you grounded permanently. "He was reaching into his pocket and I saw a shiny object... How was I supposed to know it was his laminated part 107 card?"

 

[lickitysplit11111]

Huh? For real? And what is the code number of this antimachete ordnance?

Err, This is with a quick Google search
New York Adds Machetes To List Of 'Dangerous Or Deadly' Weapons

Maybe its normal if you live in Pennsatucky to carry a machete around town but around here you'll quickly be surrounded by a small army of law enforcement for a stunt like that

 

[yorlik]

Just another example why I would never live in that gestapo state.

 

[Richard R]

A legitimate question would have been "why, what local ordinance or law would I be violating?" A citizen has the right to know what regulations apply to any activity they are participating in, or planning to. Even LEOs can't make idle or arbitrary threats.

 

[MapMaker53]

Err, This is with a quick Google search
New York Adds Machetes To List Of 'Dangerous Or Deadly' Weapons

Maybe its normal if you live in Pennsatucky to carry a machete around town but around here you'll quickly be surrounded by a small army of law enforcement for a stunt like that

If you are going to Google a news report, it helps to read what it says.
"The new rules, signed into law this month by Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo, stop short of banning the long, bladed instruments, often used by gardeners, farmers and hikers to clear undergrowth. Instead, the new law makes it a separate misdemeanor to possess a machete with the intent of using it unlawfully against another person." Doesn't say I can't run down Main Street swinging one around if i have no INTENTION of hurting anyone. Of course the police would stop me and take it (and me) away, which was exactly my point. Not breaking any law, but deemed a danger to the public, which is the only reason the police need in order to intervene - including operating a drone in an unsafe manner. Whether the charges then stick is a matter for a judge.