DJI Yikes

[bkushner]

So I just saw on the news some in Congress are convinced China spying on US with DJI drones. Mainly the fact that they gave drones free to towns to use. Now calling for a ban on DJI Drones being used officially by govt in the USA. Not sure how it would effect non government..

 

[Hunter25]

Ive worked with DOD personnel testing and evaluating drones for military use. ALL of their DJI drones are now on the shelf, never to be used again !! They shelved them 2 years ago for the spying issue. May be a good time to sell my Mavic and Phantom !

 

[jmaeding]

Ok, all this is rumors until someone can explain how they are getting info. People can watch stuff being sent to the internet so this is basics for security people. What info is being sent? Seems like a perfect way to waste their time if so, and likely easy to fake so can't be too serious.

 

[BillCaf]

Here's something to think about:

In China, there tends to be a strong relationship between private enterprise and the communist party government, no matter how much the two try to distance themselves from each other. It is hard for companies, and people in other parts of the world who have not worked with China to understand just how intertwined business and politics is in China, much more so than in most other countries.

In 2017 China passed the National Intelligence Law which states, “any organization or citizen shall support, assist and cooperate with the state intelligence work in accordance with the law,” and the state “protects” any individual and organization that aids it. Another law, the 2014 counter espionage law states, “when the state security organ investigates and understands the situation of espionage and collects relevant evidence, the relevant organizations and individuals shall provide it truthfully and may not refuse.”

A leaked report from ICE (immigration and customs enforcement agency) in the USA claims that DJI drones are being used to gather critical US infrastructure, law enforcement, and more. ICE claims in the memo that the information it has come from a reliable source within the drone industry who has first and secondhand access. The main concerns it outlined are the following,

• DJI is providing law enforcement and critical infrastructure data to China
• DJI Go and Skypixel Apps grab facial recognition data even if the feature is disabled
• Uses full names, images, and videos, phone numbers, and computer credentials, are automatically uploaded to “cloud storage systems” in Hong Kong and Taiwan “which the Chinese government most likely has access to.”
• The Chinese government is using DJI UAS as an inexpensive, hard-to-trace method to collect info on U.S. critical assets … directorates most likely receiving the data from DJI’s cloud are the offices responsible for defense, critical infrastructure, traffic control, and cyber offense
• Security researcher Kevin Finisterre was threatened by DJI when he pointed out some of these bugs in the system
• Much of the information collected [by DJI products] includes proprietary and sensitive critical infrastructure data, such as detailed imagery of power control panels, security measures for critical infrastructure sites, or materials used in bridge construction.
• DJI is providing the Chinese government with data to help it determine which assets to acquire in the U.S.

There must be Drone Manufacturers in the US who make Drones comparable to DJI?
Captain Bill

 

[jmaeding]

ok, so its the cloud storage element they are mining. I can believe that.
Keep in mind though, whenever you raid secret info, you get caught fast because its easy to deduce you had access.
Not only that, you can plant fake info that would lead them to do interesting things, and test if they are watching.
Hope they are enjoying my project pictures, lots of dirt being moved around.

 

[Meta4]

Ok, all this is rumors until someone can explain how they are getting info.

This whole idea has been around for a few years but keeps coming back, this time it was raised by someone who knows nothing about it talking to a rather dubious news source that's happy to stir things up.
The idea that your drone is collecting information of espionage value is completely laughable.
The idea that it's sending that information has been debunked multiple times.
But facts aren't very effective at stopping silly myths, particularly when there's a propaganda element to them.

There must be Drone Manufacturers in the US who make Drones comparable to DJI?

Report back when you find one.

 

[jmaeding]

Amen. Especially the part about reporting back as its rediculous there is only one medium price drone with mechanical shutter.

 

[captainmilehigh]

I'm sure that China can take over the world with all the information my P3 has collected

flying over and around the multiple phantom magnet trees on my property.


Yeah,........right. [emoji23]

 

[YooperPH4]

Ok, so all this being said, I have tried to find quality drones that are made in the US. Is there any drones of the same quality made in the US? If not why?

 

[Alex Baxter]

If you really need an American drone, try Skydio. I'm afraid from $10 up to $4000 the Chinese (and DJI in particular) have the market cornered. Autel Evo2 is a good drone, but only American offices, made in China. Skydio is a 1 trick pony, but really good at it..

 

[Meta4]

Ok, so all this being said, I have tried to find quality drones that are made in the US. Is there any drones of the same quality made in the US? If not why?

Probably the same reason that there are no locally made mobile phones, TVs, cameras, etc

 

[dirkclod]

If you really need an American drone, try Skydio. I'm afraid from $10 up to $4000 the Chinese (and DJI in particular) have the market cornered. Autel Evo2 is a good drone, but only American offices, made in China. Skydio is a 1 trick pony, but really good at it..

Only the frame is made here . Skydio drones are designed and assembled here from Chinese made parts. Skydio has all of their marketing and support in the US so i wouldn't say it is really a American drone.

 

[dronesky]

Probably the same reason that there are no locally made mobile phones, TVs, cameras, etc

Exactly what I thought

 

[captainmilehigh]

Ok, so all this being said, I have tried to find quality drones that are made in the US. Is there any drones of the same quality made in the US? If not why?

There are a few drones manufactured in the US. Companies like Digital Aerolus, Vision Aerial, and Intel.

BUT, they are manufactured in the US using foreign made components and electronics...(China, etc). So in a nutshell, they really aren't much different than a drone from China.

Until the US breaks the link to being dependent on foreign made commodities, we are at the mercy of these foreign companies and governments.

 

[JeffreyS]

Stupidity and paranoia is not limited to the private sector. In fact it sees the greatest proliferation in the government ranks.

 

[Alex Baxter]

Only the frame is made here . Skydio drones are designed and assembled here from Chinese made parts. Skydio has all of their marketing and support in the US so i wouldn't say it is really a American drone.

Oops, I'm not often right, but I'm wrong again ?

 

[dirkclod]

Oops, I'm not often right, but I'm wrong again ?

Yup.

 

[YooperPH4]

I am more interested in buying America than I am afraid of buying Chinese!

 

[NRJ]

China Internet Security Law
Wikipedia
Link: China Internet Security Law

See also: Censorship in China, Industrial espionage, and Mass surveillance in China

Along with the Great Firewall, restrictions raise concerning voices, especially among foreign companies.[11] Regarding the requirements for spot-checks and certifications, international law firms have warned that companies could be asked to provide source code, encryption, or other crucial information for review by the authorities, increasing the risk of this information being lost, passed on to local competitors, or used by the authorities themselves.[1] The Federal Bureau of Investigation warned that the law could force companies transmitting data through servers in China to submit to data surveillance measures.[12]

The law sparked complaints both internally and internationally due to its wording. Foreign companies and businesses in China expressed concerns that this law might impede future investments in China, because the law now requires them to "store their data on Chinese-law regulated local servers, and cooperate with Chinese national security agencies if asked to,"[13] which could potentially compromise business secrets and sensitive information.

To comply with the law, for instance, Apple announced that it would transfer the operation of iCloud in Mainland China to a government-sponsored data company named Guizhou-Cloud Big Data.[14] Meanwhile, online services, including Skype and WhatsApp, refused to store their data locally and were either banned from operating in China or restrained from further expansion.[15]

Article 9 of the cybersecurity law states that “network operators … must obey social norms and commercial ethics, be honest and credible, perform obligations to protect network security, accept supervision from the government and public, and bear social responsibility.” Such vague provision is suspected to increase the government's guard to interpret and assert the need to intervene. Such interventions would include investigations which could disperse into government trade associations requesting spot-checks at the foreign firm.

If China will go to these extremes, what's to keep them from sending those .dat, and .txt (which have GPS locations) files all stored on the drone, back to China? Why do we have to login (to their servers) when we fly? Why do they care? Read their laws above.

 

[Super Dave]

I don't see spying an issue without direct evidence. Every phone and tablet can be a spying device. Mostly from our own government and the so called "Patriot act".
We have millions of these aircraft in possession. Every country with WiFi is intercepting our communications along with their own spy satellites. Pointing at DJI as a major culprit is just a distraction. There are more than leaks around here, there's massive floods of info to intercept by anybody that has a 15 year old kid.

Here's something to think about:

In China, there tends to be a strong relationship between private enterprise and the communist party government, no matter how much the two try to distance themselves from each other. It is hard for companies, and people in other parts of the world who have not worked with China to understand just how intertwined business and politics is in China, much more so than in most other countries.

In 2017 China passed the National Intelligence Law which states, “any organization or citizen shall support, assist and cooperate with the state intelligence work in accordance with the law,” and the state “protects” any individual and organization that aids it. Another law, the 2014 counter espionage law states, “when the state security organ investigates and understands the situation of espionage and collects relevant evidence, the relevant organizations and individuals shall provide it truthfully and may not refuse.”

A leaked report from ICE (immigration and customs enforcement agency) in the USA claims that DJI drones are being used to gather critical US infrastructure, law enforcement, and more. ICE claims in the memo that the information it has come from a reliable source within the drone industry who has first and secondhand access. The main concerns it outlined are the following,

• DJI is providing law enforcement and critical infrastructure data to China
• DJI Go and Skypixel Apps grab facial recognition data even if the feature is disabled
• Uses full names, images, and videos, phone numbers, and computer credentials, are automatically uploaded to “cloud storage systems” in Hong Kong and Taiwan “which the Chinese government most likely has access to.”
• The Chinese government is using DJI UAS as an inexpensive, hard-to-trace method to collect info on U.S. critical assets … directorates most likely receiving the data from DJI’s cloud are the offices responsible for defense, critical infrastructure, traffic control, and cyber offense
• Security researcher Kevin Finisterre was threatened by DJI when he pointed out some of these bugs in the system
• Much of the information collected [by DJI products] includes proprietary and sensitive critical infrastructure data, such as detailed imagery of power control panels, security measures for critical infrastructure sites, or materials used in bridge construction.
• DJI is providing the Chinese government with data to help it determine which assets to acquire in the U.S.

There must be Drone Manufacturers in the US who make Drones comparable to DJI?
Captain Bill