Different controllers

Joined
Jan 30, 2017
Messages
143
Reaction score
20
Age
59
Is there some kind of big difference in the remote controlers, the 5 that I have for my phantoms all have CE 1313 ON THE BACK. Now I'm hearing that these don't have the range as one with I think they said a
CL 1313. The article said that the 1313 was used in Europe, could someone help me understand this, I the had a p3p and p3a since 2015 and a p4p since they came out and somehow mmm never heard of this
20200206_080607~2.jpeg
 

Meta4

Moderator
Staff Member
Premium Pilot
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
14,740
Reaction score
8,740
Is there some kind of big difference in the remote controlers, the 5 that I have for my phantoms all have CE 1313 ON THE BACK.
It doesn't matter where you buy your drone and controller, you get the same model and it will have the CE mark.
The drone identifies and uses the appropriate mode (FCC or CE) based on where you use the drone.
Having the CE mark just signifies that the controller has CE approval.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Capt KO
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
6,239
Reaction score
2,874
Location
Yorba Linda, CA
The GL300A and GL300B were good controllers, especially when enabling more channels that have less traffic, such as flying on channel 30 and 31, if enabled. You can get 2-3mi ranges. However for the P4 craft (luckily you don't own one), the GL300C was detuned with poor transmit power. The P4 craft doesn't have the range of P3P or P3A, 1 mile, maybe a little more. But then when the P4P came out with 5.8Ghz band using the GL300F model RC, the range increased to be equal to, or a little better than P3P and P3A, when using 5.8Ghz band. Using P4P with 2.4Ghz has much less range than flying on 5.8Ghz band. What I've stated here is for "FCC" mode in the US. If you're in Europe, it's likely a different story because the craft will detune the RC to have less range, based on the GPS location. A Europe GPS location puts the RC in "CE" mode, having much less range than "FCC" mode in the US. As Meta said, the RC's are the same for US and Europe, but the RC will detune itself in Europe to "CE" mode, based on GPS location acquired by the craft. There may be solutions to get around CE mode in Europe by using NLD hacks.
 
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
1,259
Reaction score
327
Location
Chicago
The GL300A and GL300B were good controllers, especially when enabling more channels that have less traffic, such as flying on channel 30 and 31, if enabled. You can get 2-3mi ranges. However for the P4 craft (luckily you don't own one), the GL300C was detuned with poor transmit power. The P4 craft doesn't have the range of P3P or P3A, 1 mile, maybe a little more. But then when the P4P came out with 5.8Ghz band using the GL300F model RC, the range increased to be equal to, or a little better than P3P and P3A, when using 5.8Ghz band. Using P4P with 2.4Ghz has much less range than flying on 5.8Ghz band. What I've stated here is for "FCC" mode in the US. If you're in Europe, it's likely a different story because the craft will detune the RC to have less range, based on the GPS location. A Europe GPS location puts the RC in "CE" mode, having much less range than "FCC" mode in the US. As Meta said, the RC's are the same for US and Europe, but the RC will detune itself in Europe to "CE" mode, based on GPS location acquired by the craft. There may be solutions to get around CE mode in Europe by using NLD hacks.

John- which controller came with the P4P-v2? (Mine...)
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
16
Reaction score
3
Age
76
The GL300A and GL300B were good controllers, especially when enabling more channels that have less traffic, such as flying on channel 30 and 31, if enabled. You can get 2-3mi ranges. However for the P4 craft (luckily you don't own one), the GL300C was detuned with poor transmit power. The P4 craft doesn't have the range of P3P or P3A, 1 mile, maybe a little more. But then when the P4P came out with 5.8Ghz band using the GL300F model RC, the range increased to be equal to, or a little better than P3P and P3A, when using 5.8Ghz band. Using P4P with 2.4Ghz has much less range than flying on 5.8Ghz band. What I've stated here is for "FCC" mode in the US. If you're in Europe, it's likely a different story because the craft will detune the RC to have less range, based on the GPS location. A Europe GPS location puts the RC in "CE" mode, having much less range than "FCC" mode in the US. As Meta said, the RC's are the same for US and Europe, but the RC will detune itself in Europe to "CE" mode, based on GPS location acquired by the craft. There may be solutions to get around CE mode in Europe by using NLD hacks.
I am a bit confused. You state that the range is better with 5.8 GHz than 2.4 GHz. That is against everything I have learned.
The higher frequency the shorter range all other parameters equal.
 
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
6,239
Reaction score
2,874
Location
Yorba Linda, CA
John- which controller came with the P4P-v2? (Mine...)
GL300K: Built-in display device (5.5 inch screen, 1920×1080, 1000 cd/m2, Android system, 4 GB RAM+16 GB ROM)
GL300L: Tablets and smart phones
Yes, what Meta said.

I've never owned a V2, but I know they are unique for controller compatibility, not compatible with any other craft, as it uses OcuSync2. It would seem to me they should be compatible with a Mavic2 which also uses OcuSync2, but I have read they are not compatible. I don't even think the smart controller is compatible with P4P V2, and it seems like it should be, to use DJI goggles, etc. Maybe someday DJI will make that compatible. Even the $1400 Cendence controller (for Inspire2 and Matrice 200) isn't compatible with P4P V2. In 2015 model craft an Inspire controller would work with the P3P, and P4 (not P4P) but that has all changed on new models. The P4P V2 is pretty proprietary for controller compatibility.
 
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
6,239
Reaction score
2,874
Location
Yorba Linda, CA
I am a bit confused. You state that the range is better with 5.8 GHz than 2.4 GHz. That is against everything I have learned.
The higher frequency the shorter range all other parameters equal.
I cannot speak for P4P V2, but on P4P V1 the 5.8Ghz works better for range. 5.8 has less penetration through trees, but more distance with adequate transmission power. If you have a LOS connection, nothing between you and the craft, the 5.8Ghz works better on P4P V1.

Theoretically a higher frequency has more capability to communication more data. If the transmit power is adequate, that means the video will have a better capability to transmit at 10mbps for greater distance than lower frequencies, having less dropouts. For the P4P V1 the transmit power from the craft to the RC for video links is good on 5.8Ghz, providing the best range. My experience with 2.4Ghz on P4P V1 is the range is limited, much like the P4 which was really bad for range. If the P4P V1 didn't have 5.8Ghz, I would have sold my P4P V1 long ago. 5.8Ghz is the bees knees IMO.

The other beauty of 5.8Ghz is there should be less interference from Wifi, since 5.8Ghz has less penetration through the walls of homes. So when using a windsurfer the 5.8Ghz range on my P4P V1 can easily go 3 miles, and sometimes farther. Using 2.4Ghz can't do that. @GadgetGuy guy has experienced the same ranges on these frequencies.

Also, if you fly near homes or businesses, there are many people that put amplifiers on their 2.4Ghz band access points to improve home/business Wifi performance. This is technically illegal, but they do it anyway, and these rouge frequencies do get outside of the home better than 5.8. You won't find many people putting similar amps on 5.8Ghz, because it's known that 5.8Ghz doesn't penetrate walls as good, so everyone amplifies their 2.4 band. Hence, when flying near homes and business, I find less interference with 5.8Ghz, which means more range.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
16
Reaction score
3
Age
76
I cannot speak for P4P V2, but on P4P V1 the 5.8Ghz works better for range. 5.8 has less penetration through trees, but more distance with adequate transmission power. If you have a LOS connection, nothing between you and the craft, the 5.8Ghz works better on P4P V1.

Theoretically a higher frequency has more capability to communication more data. If the transmit power is adequate, that means the video will have a better capability to transmit at 10mbps for greater distance than lower frequencies, having less dropouts. For the P4P V1 the transmit power from the craft to the RC for video links is good on 5.8Ghz, providing the best range. My experience with 2.4Ghz on P4P V1 is the range is limited, much like the P4 which was really bad for range. If the P4P V1 didn't have 5.8Ghz, I would have sold my P4P V1 long ago. 5.8Ghz is the bees knees IMO.

The other beauty of 5.8Ghz is there should be less interference from Wifi, since 5.8Ghz has less penetration through the walls of homes. So when using a windsurfer the 5.8Ghz range on my P4P V1 can easily go 3 miles, and sometimes farther. Using 2.4Ghz can't do that. @GadgetGuy guy has experienced the same ranges on these frequencies.

Also, if you fly near homes or businesses, there are many people that put amplifiers on their 2.4Ghz band access points to improve home/business Wifi performance. This is technically illegal, but they do it anyway, and these rouge frequencies do get outside of the home better than 5.8. You won't find many people putting similar amps on 5.8Ghz, because it's known that 5.8Ghz doesn't penetrate walls as good, so everyone amplifies their 2.4 band. Hence, when flying near homes and business, I find less interference with 5.8Ghz, which means more range.
Hi
You have a lot of very good points. An actual range test is always better than all the theory. As you state, one of the most important things is the disturbance from all the surroundings. And you are right that the air is polluted with 2.4 GHz signals in most places. One negative thing about 5.8 GHz is that a wider bandwidth introduces more noise.
In my country we are only allowed to fly LOS. So is does not matter if I choose 2.4 or 5.8GHz on my P4P v2.0 and my Mavic Air.
I have seen several range tests showing 2.4GHz giving better range than 5.8GHz, which it should according to the theory.
So the correct thing to do, must be to use the frequency which is best for your drone in your place.
 
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
6,239
Reaction score
2,874
Location
Yorba Linda, CA
I have seen several range tests showing 2.4GHz giving better range than 5.8GHz, which it should according to the theory.
The power of the signal is more important than the frequency. In the case of the P4P V1 with GL300F controller, and the craft transmitting the 5.8Ghz to the ground, the added output is higher with 5.8 vs the lessor power 2.4ghz band. I'm not sure why DJI did that, but I'm glad they did. It simply works better, and if you haven't range tested it, you should. Using a windsurfer on 5.8ghz will get you more range than the battery can support.
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
16
Reaction score
3
Age
76
The power of the signal is more important than the frequency. In the case of the P4P V1 with GL300F controller, and the craft transmitting the 5.8Ghz to the ground, the added output is higher with 5.8 vs the lessor power 2.4ghz band. I'm not sure why DJI did that, but I'm glad they did. It simply works better, and if you haven't range tested it, you should. Using a windsurfer on 5.8ghz will get you more range than the battery can support.
Thats correct. The power is very important. Thats the reason why I am using my Mavic Air in FCC mode even though I live in a CE country(Denmark). This increases the power in 2.4GHz with 8dBm that is almost 8 times higher. In 5.8Ghz thr increase is 16 dBm which is more than 32 times higher. In FCC mode I never have range problems when flying VLOS. In Denmark it not allowed to fly beyond that.
I do not know why the FCC standard allows higher output with 5.8GHz than with 2.4 GHz. With the CE standard it is the opposite.
The output on 5.8GHz is typically only half the value of the output in 2.4GHz.
Much more important than the power of the signal is the caracteristics of the antenna. An directional antenna with a very narrow beamwidth would give much more range if you can keep the drone in the beam.
I have worked with ballistic radars with a beamwidth of less tha 1 deg. It could easily track a small objekt 12 to 15 km with a poweroutput of 200mW.
This discussion have given me a very good picture of the pros and cons related to the different standards, and given me an opportunity to repeat almost forgotten knowledge.
So thank you John
 
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
6,239
Reaction score
2,874
Location
Yorba Linda, CA
This discussion have given me a very good picture of the pros and cons related to the different standards, and given me an opportunity to repeat almost forgotten knowledge.
So thank you John
My pleasure to help, however all my findings on this subject are assuming Lightbridge on P3P or P4P. I've never owned a Wifi drone like the Mavic Air, so I'm not sure how relevant my comments are. Wifi is a completely different than Lightbridge or OcuSync. But I do know that 5.8Ghz works best with P4P V1 (doesn't use OcuSync) in FCC mode. The nuances of the RF signal strength are different from one DJI model to another. With my Mavic2Z I've never had to do anything for more range. The M2Z range is awesome in FCC mode, and it doesn't use 5.8Ghz, it's all on 2.4Ghz. So OcuSync2 is on another level of optimization IMO, providing good range (3 to 5 miles with windsurfer) providing a solid high integrity signal strength.

As for the windsurfer direction sensitivity, it's not as bad as many assume. You can test the dish yourself by taking the craft out to the fringe, until you see 3 bars for signal strength instead of 4 or 5. Let the craft hover in place at 200' or 300' altitude. Using the radar screen, point the dish directly at the craft. Then turn the RC dish antenna away from the craft slowly, very slowly, in ~5 degree increments. See how far you can point the dish away from the craft before it goes down to 2 bars, and then 1 bar. You'll find out the sensitivity of the dish direction isn't bad, and you have quite a bit of leeway, usually 30 degrees or more. That said, you have the radar screen to see exactly which direction to point the RC dish, so that should never be an issue, unless you're not paying attention. Regular scanning of the radar screen and signal strength is a good habit to have on long distance flights. In IMHO everyone should own a windsurfer, if they the make long range flights.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
16
Reaction score
3
Age
76
My pleasure to help, however all my findings on this subject are assuming Lightbridge on P3P or P4P. I've never owned a Wifi drone like the Mavic Air, so I'm not sure how relevant my comments are. Wifi is a completely different than Lightbridge or OcuSync. But I do know that 5.8Ghz works best with P4P V1 (doesn't use OcuSync) in FCC mode. The nuances of the RF signal strength are different from one DJI model to another. With my Mavic2Z I've never had to do anything for more range. The M2Z range is awesome in FCC mode, and it doesn't use 5.8Ghz, it's all on 2.4Ghz. So OcuSync2 is on another level of optimization IMO, providing good range (3 to 5 miles with windsurfer) providing a solid high integrity signal strength.

As for the windsurfer direction sensitivity, it's not as bad as many assume. You can test the dish yourself by taking the craft out to the fringe, until you see 3 bars for signal strength instead of 4 or 5. Let the craft hover in place at 200' or 300' altitude. Then turn the RC dish antenna away from the craft slowly, very slowly, in ~5 degree increments. See how long it take to go down to 2 bars, and then 1 bar. You'll find out the sensitivity of the dish isn't that high, and you have quite a bit of leeway, usually 30 degrees or more. That said, you have the radar screen to see exactly which direction to point the RC, so that should never be an issue. Regular scanning of the radar screen and signal strength is a good habit to have on long distance flights. In IMHO everyone should own a windsurfer, if they the make long range flights.
I would love to try a windsurfer. But if I do a range test and someone reports me , I might loose my license. Here in Denmark we have to take a two days training coarse, we have to registrate a company and have an insurance and be at least 18years of age to fly in urban areas. The drone must be marked with the license number and the name and phone number of the owner.
Also you have to report to the police 24 hours before you fly in urban areas. It looks like the danish rules are going to be incorporated in the new EEC rules, which will come out later this year.
Do you have any of theese restrictions?
 
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
6,239
Reaction score
2,874
Location
Yorba Linda, CA
Do you have any of these restrictions?
Our restrictions in the US are not as severe, but similar in an effort to fly safe. Why not go out in the country away from the city? It would be impossible to prove your flight path unless you gave them your flight data. What about flying over ocean to an island offshore? Is that illegal there?
 
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
6,239
Reaction score
2,874
Location
Yorba Linda, CA
Here's an interesting video explaining Wifi using 2.4 and 5.8Ghz, as well as the new 6Ghz band coming next year.

I think this video explains the problem with video interference when we fly on 2.4Ghz, and our phone or tablet has WiFi ON, but not connected to an access point, constantly pinging all channels to find an access point. All of the channel overlapping mentioned in the video potentially is the issue. Even though the P4P V1 Lightbridge may stay fixed on a frequency, the overlapping of WiFi hunting, and the fact the device inches from the RC receiving video from the drone, the interference is seen as green screens and video drop outs. Using custom channel on 5.8Ghz with P4P V1 alleviates this anomaly.

Since DJI doesn't use the max wifi power allowed in our transmitters for the unlicensed wifi spectrum ranges (2.4 and 5.8Ghz), they throttle the power to their needs for specific FCC or CE requirements for drones. This could be why 5.8 works so good in P4P V1 and 2.4Ghz doesn't. It appears DJI tuned the craft and RC with more 5.8Ghz power, so the range is better assuming a LOS connection. In the P4P V2 it uses OcuSync 2 which is yet on another level of range capability (based on my M2Z experience). OcuSync uses 2.4 and 5.8 also, but simply putting on auto provides miles of ranges, no tweaking needed, but I still use a windsurfer.
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
16
Reaction score
3
Age
76
Our restrictions in the US are not as severe, but similar in an effort to fly safe. Why not go out in the country away from the city? It would be impossible to prove your flight path unless you gave them your flight data. What about flying over ocean to an island offshore? Is that illegal there?
It is illegal to fly beyond your sight. But of course I have tried it.
 
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
6,239
Reaction score
2,874
Location
Yorba Linda, CA
It is illegal to fly beyond your sight. But of course I have tried it.
Yes, we have the same guideline in the US too, but it's often ignored. I'd crash my drone way more often flying VLOS all the time. A humans eyesight depth of field becomes progressively ineffective after about 100'.

To see how good you are with VLOS depth of field at 100', try the test below with some 4' sticks in the stuck in the ground, vertical. See if you can fly this route without using FPV. Fly between the sticks using only VLOS. Tip, before you go between the sticks, stop and check FPV to confirm. If you succeed at 100', try 200'. It's a fun exercise, one that makes you realize how valuable and accurate FPV is. Of course this doesn't make it best to use only FPV on all missions, but I use it 90% of the time during my flights, but that's me. I've only crashed once in 5yrs, and that was using VLOS about 150' away.

1586118790152.png
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
16
Reaction score
3
Age
76
Yes, we have the same guideline in the US too, but it's often ignored. I'd crash my drone way more often flying VLOS all the time. A humans eyesight depth of field becomes progressively ineffective after about 100'.

To see how good you are with VLOS depth of field at 100', try the test below with some 4' sticks in the stuck in the ground, vertical. See if you can fly this route without using FPV. Fly between the sticks using only VLOS. Tip, before you go between the sticks, stop and check FPV to confirm. If you succeed at 100', try 200'. It's a fun exercise, one that makes you realize how valuable and accurate FPV is. Of course this doesn't make it best to use only FPV on all missions, but I use it 90% of the time during my flights, but that's me. I've only crashed once in 5yrs, and that was using VLOS about 150' away.

View attachment 117978
I know how difficult it is to judge the distance to an object. I have been flying model airplanes for 35 years. We often had a competition to hit a pole made of foam in a distance of 25m. It is very dificult to hit that pole.
 

New Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
140,495
Messages
1,448,209
Members
102,287
Latest member
blackbeard10