Demunseed Disses The P3

I don't see why I would need collision avoidance. I can do that pretty well on my own, and who knows what kind of bugs you will run into with a system like that.
As you fly now.

What about setting up a waypoint flight to fly around an unknown area? What about a flight path flying low and around trees? How about follow me as he walk around an area with buildings and trees? You don't do these things now because you can't do them safely. Also, you may have never hit anything but _plenty_ of people have. You may also fly to close to something one day.


Don't forget that it also adds weight, making the drone even more dangerous in case it goes crazy and crashes into someone, it will do a lot more damage than a 1.3kg P3...

Yes, that extra ounce could mean the difference between life and death. It's not going to be the existing 2lbs and spinning blades that will cause the harm, it's just that extra ounce. I can't take what you posted above seriously.


The folding arms are a great addition, but the p3 is not that big anyway, and now you are adding even more weight.
So a drone that packs down even smaller is a bad thing? Weight? Again, probably 1/2 ounce and the drone gets the same flight time as the Phantom.

I have no doubt if your P4 had all of these abilities and I said my P3 was better that you'd count each and every thing you mentioned as a big improvement.

Collision avoidance and sensors will be standard on every drone in the very near future. It will also serve to open up a world of additional capabilities.
 
The problem with touting features is that they haven't been tested by people with the actual AC. They sound awesome and ultimately they could be great features but until the AC is released and real people are flying them who knows.... I think the new AC will be great for the Phantom Series. They will force innovation and competition will ensure that the price remains competitive. I think it is a bit of a stretch to rank a product that isn't released ahead of the industry leader.. That is all.
 
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To all the people dissing on demunseed. Care to show me your video's that are helpful. While he can be a little eccentric, he also has alot of extremely useful videos like this one
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Unless you have a list of **** you have done for this hobby talking **** is comical (and childish). If you watched the video he didnt even really "dis" dji. He brought up known issues.
Ummmmm I had several videos helping people on an unrelated topic. I was also not trying to plug any retailer. the second I realized he's an infomercial channel his opinion lost any credibility or value with me. Furthermore 10 of his 12 'mistakes' are from dji's website. The fact that its 'borrowed' content makes him lose more credibility with me. Cant knock him for making money through youtube, but, it definitely causes motives to be questioned.
 
edit: Wetdog: It looks like the xstar uses a frequency range of 902 MHz ~ 928 MHz for video compared to 2.4ish for the phantom. Advantages or disadvantages to both? Line of sight isnt quite as important on lower frequency's correct? (im sure higher has advantages as well)
All things being equal, lower frequency will give you better penetration. The difference between 0.9 GHz and 2.4 GHz is significant but not amazingly different. DJI apparently has done a good job engineering the radios. Can anyone else better it? Perhaps? It will depend on engineering and manufacturing chops more than anything else.

If you could spend unlimited money on the radios you could get significantly more range. If you could convince the FCC to allow more power, you could get more range.

TL;DR - we have to wait and see.
 
If you could convince the FCC to allow more power, you could get more range..
Why would the FCC want to allow more power?
 
This one would probably be a more fitting comparison and its $1299, so right off the bat its $200 more than the P3. Which by the way would not be an issue as I initially flushed $2000 down the toilet for the 3DR Loblow.
http://www.amazon.com/Autel-Robotic...qid=1454632362&sr=8-1&keywords=Autel+Robotics

and what do you know, its not even released yet. I was stupid enough to fall for the fantasy marketing of the 3DR Solo which was just complete garbage. More problems than I care to remember. 3DR is one of the most immoral set of BS'ers that I have come across in the marketplace to date. Don't know how Demunseed can make those claims when it hasnt even been released. Look at DJIs past release issues. Im sure the freebees they sent out at the beginning had no problems as many issues start to arise when mass production starts. After the 3DR Solo, i will never spend even close to that much money to beta test anyones tech releases again. I also had a Yuneec, and quite frankly unbiased opinion is that the P3 is untouchable for the price point, and even better than many more expensive drones. Frank Wang (huh huh I said wang) has it pegged.
 
Wow. I guess Colin Guinn is kicking himself right now. Too bad.

@Marknmd I would imagine so, but who knows if Wang was giving him what he needed (couldnt resist). Apparently 3DR has discontinued their entire product line aside from Solo. While we were talking about other drones, in my opinion as far as the quadcopter goes, no one will top DJI for the price point, but take a look at this thing, it was on shark tank.

XCraft Raises $1.5M from Shark Tank for Its Next Gen Camera Drones
 
As you fly now.

What about setting up a waypoint flight to fly around an unknown area? What about a flight path flying low and around trees? How about follow me as he walk around an area with buildings and trees? You don't do these things now because you can't do them safely. Also, you may have never hit anything but _plenty_ of people have. You may also fly to close to something one day.




Yes, that extra ounce could mean the difference between life and death. It's not going to be the existing 2lbs and spinning blades that will cause the harm, it's just that extra ounce. I can't take what you posted above seriously.


So a drone that packs down even smaller is a bad thing? Weight? Again, probably 1/2 ounce and the drone gets the same flight time as the Phantom.

I have no doubt if your P4 had all of these abilities and I said my P3 was better that you'd count each and every thing you mentioned as a big improvement.

Collision avoidance and sensors will be standard on every drone in the very near future. It will also serve to open up a world of additional capabilities.


1 oz, half an ounce, you are joking right? That's at least 1/2 lb just for the collision avoidance, and likely 1 lb just for the folding arms.
 
All things being equal, lower frequency will give you better penetration. The difference between 0.9 GHz and 2.4 GHz is significant but not amazingly different. DJI apparently has done a good job engineering the radios. Can anyone else better it? Perhaps? It will depend on engineering and manufacturing chops more than anything else.

If you could spend unlimited money on the radios you could get significantly more range. If you could convince the FCC to allow more power, you could get more range.

TL;DR - we have to wait and see.

Are you sure you can send 720p video through 900mhz? I'm pretty sure you cant. Also, the P3 doesn't use wifi, its an OFDM and MIMO system...
 
This one would probably be a more fitting comparison and its $1299, so right off the bat its $200 more than the P3. Which by the way would not be an issue as I initially flushed $2000 down the toilet for the 3DR Loblow.
Amazon.com : Autel Robotics XSTAR-PREM-WH X-Star Premium Drone with 4K Camera, 1.2-Mile HD Live View & Hard Case (White) : Camera & Photo

and what do you know, its not even released yet. I was stupid enough to fall for the fantasy marketing of the 3DR Solo which was just complete garbage. More problems than I care to remember. 3DR is one of the most immoral set of BS'ers that I have come across in the marketplace to date. Don't know how Demunseed can make those claims when it hasnt even been released. Look at DJIs past release issues. Im sure the freebees they sent out at the beginning had no problems as many issues start to arise when mass production starts. After the 3DR Solo, i will never spend even close to that much money to beta test anyones tech releases again. I also had a Yuneec, and quite frankly unbiased opinion is that the P3 is untouchable for the price point, and even better than many more expensive drones. Frank Wang (huh huh I said wang) has it pegged.
You echo my thoughts. Rating a bird before it's been vetted is hot air, the proof being Solo. I bought the Yuneec 500+ in March before P3P was released. It's a slow, big, overweight slug IMHO, it sits in my closet. Only does 17mph! and the H is 22mph with 6 motors. As for collision avoidance, pretty much worthless half the time. The guys in the Intel booth at CES demostrating the Typhoon H said it can't see tree limbs under 2" thick, nor telephone wires.

As for Lightbridge, it's definitely NOT Wifi, far from it. Anyone saying otherwise isn't informed. PLAIN OLD WIFI (POW) uses TCP/IP protocol, just like all laptops with wifi. TCP/IP is a two way handshake process to insure the EVERY bit makes it from point A to point B by comparing check sums. This is important on a PC that deals with financial matters, and EVERY BIT is extremely important for accuracy. However TCP/IP was not intended to broadcast real-time video from the air to ground. All that handshaking takes time and results in latency issues, longer reconnect times, freeze framing, and limits distance due to constant re-transmission of packets when a single bit gets lost. All that handshaking increases latency as the bird gets farther away toward it's limits to communicate ALL PACKETS with 100% accuracy, hence the short distance capability of ~600 meters for all POW birds, including the P3 standard. Yes, you can enhance distance with directional antennas and Sunhans amplifiers, but as far as drones go, Wifi is so 2014! When Lightbridge came out, WiFi met it's death for video communication, although it will be a slow death. Everyone uses Wifi because it's dirt cheap, given all of the Wifi single chip solutions available for the laptop and tablet markets. It's cheap, but it's not designed for long distance real-time video.

Yes, Lightbridge does use the 2.4Ghz band for one reason, it's allowed by the FCC. However the FCC doesn't put much limit on how it uses that frequency, except for power limits. The distance capability of 2.4Ghz is farther than 900mhz at the low power limits set by the FCC. The trade-off is you don't get the penetration 900mhz has, but the additional penetration for things like trees isn't significant. The clever part of Lightbridge is that it's a one way transmission of digital video, similar to how TV stations broadcast digital video ONE WAY from the top of a hill. There is no two way handshaking going on with the video transmission. If data bits get lost, you might see a spec or line on your screen, Lightbridge doesn't get rebroadcast like POW...... but who cares? So you see a spec or a line for a fraction of a second, that's not a big deal. The benefits of Lightbridge one way BROADCAST method are great. Video latency is lower and your get more consistent latency, because there is NO HANDSHAKING back and forth, which takes time. The biggest benefit is DISTANCE, over 5X the distance. It's all about distance, for anyone with experience. THE DISTANCE SETS YOU FREE!
 
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Demunseed ... valid points? That would be a first (if it was true)
Jim Bowers is a complete tosser and has very little idea of anything.
His "valid points are:
Customer Service ... and he talks about the past.
Everyone knows DJI used to have poor service times.
It was a product of their explosive growth and the difficulty keeping up.
Anyone who's in touch also knows that DJI have made a big effort in this area and their service times have improved greatly.

Quality Control ... and he talks about shell cracking which was an issue with a small fraction of early production P3s.
The issue seems to have gone away now.

Demunseed is the last person to pay attention to for anything.
He's always off recommending some unreleased thing as the new best drone.
Completely agree. I sent my new P3A in for replacement a bit over a week, since I took it out of the box, and have an immediate motor failure. They replaced it completely free, and the replacement will arrive today. But once I called them, saying I am interested in their new face-to-face/training delivery(To make sure there is no problems), they immediately recalled the package, and will replace the whole order with that service(Again for free) once they get it back. I heard so many horror stories about their customer support, but even though I do agree, there shouldn't be an issue with the motor in the first place, I can definitely tell they made a sincere effort into improving their customer support quality.
 
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This one would probably be a more fitting comparison and its $1299, so right off the bat its $200 more than the P3. Which by the way would not be an issue as I initially flushed $2000 down the toilet for the 3DR Loblow.
Amazon.com : Autel Robotics XSTAR-PREM-WH X-Star Premium Drone with 4K Camera, 1.2-Mile HD Live View & Hard Case (White) : Camera & Photo
I already corrected someone earlier in the thread
(meta4 I believe). The premium will be $999 including a case and 64 gig micro sd. I have confirmed this with autel staff. Someone is trying to make money off the ignorant is my best guess why its listed for $1300 on amazon.
 
I already corrected someone earlier in the thread
(meta4 I believe). The premium will be $999 including a case and 64 gig micro sd. I have confirmed this with autel staff. Someone is trying to make money off the ignorant is my best guess why its listed for $1300 on amazon.
This Autel product spec using Wifi is like a P3 Std 4K for $799, + $25 for 64GB SD, + $40 for a Chinese cheapy backpack. I don't believe this Autel drone can do 1.2miles unless it's over water or desert with a windsurfer or something else to focus the communications. If anyone buys one, lets us know the results.
 
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This Autel product spec using Wifi is like a P3 Std 4K for $799, + $25 for 64GB SD, + $40 for a Chinese cheapy backpack.
I would agree other than the range difference. The xstar premium is listed at 2000 meters, almost double the range of the 4k. . We will see how the 900mhz spectrum actually works, may be much higher over open water ect (The P3P was listed as 2000 meters initially I believe and we all know they can go much further).

The 4k is actually comparable to the regular xstar, which will come out at the same price as the 4k I believe (not sure about accessories)
 
1 oz, half an ounce, you are joking right? That's at least 1/2 lb just for the collision avoidance, and likely 1 lb just for the folding arms.

Not even close. The collision avoidance is basically the same weight/size of the ultrasonics on the P3. Folding arms just add a hinge and lock per arm. Flight time is 22 mins, close to the P3's time.
 
John Locke said:
As for Lightbridge, it's definitely NOT Wifi, far from it. Anyone saying otherwise isn't informed. PLAIN OLD WIFI (POW) uses TCP/IP protocol, just like all laptops with wifi. TCP/IP is a two way handshake process to insure the EVERY bit makes it from point A to point B by comparing check sums. This is important on a PC that deals with financial matters, and EVERY BIT is extremely important for accuracy. However TCP/IP was not intended to broadcast real-time video from the air to ground. All that handshaking takes time and results in latency issues, longer reconnect times, freeze framing, and limits distance due to constant re-transmission of packets when a single bit gets lost. All that handshaking increases latency as the bird gets farther away toward it's limits to communicate ALL PACKETS with 100% accuracy, hence the short distance capability of ~600 meters for all POW birds, including the P3 standard. Yes, you can enhance distance with directional antennas and Sunhans amplifiers, but as far as drones go, Wifi is so 2014! When Lightbridge came out, WiFi met it's death for video communication, although it will be a slow death. Everyone uses Wifi because it's dirt cheap, given all of the Wifi single chip solutions available for the laptop and tablet markets. It's cheap, but it's not designed for long distance real-time video.

Yes, Lightbridge does use the 2.4Ghz band for one reason, it's allowed by the FCC. However the FCC doesn't put much limit on how it uses that frequency, except for power limits. The distance capability of 2.4Ghz is farther than 900mhz at the low power limits set by the FCC. The trade-off is you don't get the penetration 900mhz has, but the additional penetration for things like trees isn't significant. The clever part of Lightbridge is that it's a one way transmission of digital video, similar to how TV stations broadcast digital video ONE WAY from the top of a hill. There is no two way handshaking going on with the video transmission. If data bits get lost, you might see a spec or line on your screen, Lightbridge doesn't get rebroadcast like POW...... but who cares? So you see a spec or a line for a fraction of a second, that's not a big deal. The benefits of Lightbridge one way BROADCAST method are great. Video latency is lower and your get more consistent latency, because there is NO HANDSHAKING back and forth, which takes time. The biggest benefit is DISTANCE, over 5X the distance. It's all about distance, for anyone with experience. THE DISTANCE SETS YOU FREE![/QUOTE]

Just to add to what you said, the two way handshake you referred to that wifi uses isn't exactly correct. Wifi doesn't require a 2 way handshake, but the protocol TCP requires a 3 way handshake. The protocol UDP doesn't require a 3 way handshake and is also used across wireless. I'm not saying that the Phantom wireless uses UDP or TCP protocol as I don't know what it uses. I'm just saying that 3 way handshakes are not required via wireless connections. Just letting you know. And just to elaborate, the 3 way handshake that the protocol TCP uses is known as a syn, syn-ack, ack. That's synchronization, synchronization -acknowledgement, acknowledgement. These are just the ways these protocols work. TCP is connection oriented and requires and acknowledgement packet, whereas UDP is connectionless oriented and does not require an acknowledgement packet. Both protocols ride over IP and wireless is just another communication medium. It's not any different from wired network connections as far as the network protocols are concerned....
 
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You echo my thoughts. Rating a bird before it's been vetted is hot air, the proof being Solo. I bought the Yuneec 500+ in March before P3P was released. It's a slow, big, overweight slug IMHO, it sits in my closet. Only does 17mph! and the H is 22mph with 6 motors. As for collision avoidance, pretty much worthless half the time. The guys in the Intel booth at CES demostrating the Typhoon H said it can't see tree limbs under 2" thick, nor telephone wires.

As for Lightbridge, it's definitely NOT Wifi, far from it. Anyone saying otherwise isn't informed. PLAIN OLD WIFI (POW) uses TCP/IP protocol, just like all laptops with wifi. TCP/IP is a two way handshake process to insure the EVERY bit makes it from point A to point B by comparing check sums. This is important on a PC that deals with financial matters, and EVERY BIT is extremely important for accuracy. However TCP/IP was not intended to broadcast real-time video from the air to ground. All that handshaking takes time and results in latency issues, longer reconnect times, freeze framing, and limits distance due to constant re-transmission of packets when a single bit gets lost. All that handshaking increases latency as the bird gets farther away toward it's limits to communicate ALL PACKETS with 100% accuracy, hence the short distance capability of ~600 meters for all POW birds, including the P3 standard. Yes, you can enhance distance with directional antennas and Sunhans amplifiers, but as far as drones go, Wifi is so 2014! When Lightbridge came out, WiFi met it's death for video communication, although it will be a slow death. Everyone uses Wifi because it's dirt cheap, given all of the Wifi single chip solutions available for the laptop and tablet markets. It's cheap, but it's not designed for long distance real-time video.

Yes, Lightbridge does use the 2.4Ghz band for one reason, it's allowed by the FCC. However the FCC doesn't put much limit on how it uses that frequency, except for power limits. The distance capability of 2.4Ghz is farther than 900mhz at the low power limits set by the FCC. The trade-off is you don't get the penetration 900mhz has, but the additional penetration for things like trees isn't significant. The clever part of Lightbridge is that it's a one way transmission of digital video, similar to how TV stations broadcast digital video ONE WAY from the top of a hill. There is no two way handshaking going on with the video transmission. If data bits get lost, you might see a spec or line on your screen, Lightbridge doesn't get rebroadcast like POW...... but who cares? So you see a spec or a line for a fraction of a second, that's not a big deal. The benefits of Lightbridge one way BROADCAST method are great. Video latency is lower and your get more consistent latency, because there is NO HANDSHAKING back and forth, which takes time. The biggest benefit is DISTANCE, over 5X the distance. It's all about distance, for anyone with experience. THE DISTANCE SETS YOU FREE!

@John Locke Interesting, I had just assumed that Lightbridge used one of the TCP/IP protocols. Specifically, I assumed UDP was being used as it isnt handshake based. Excellent description above btw, thank you. One POI for you, take that Q500+ out and fly that bad boy in Manual Mode. I forgot what it is called on the Yuneec, but whoa, we are talking like 60 mph you could kill someone with that thing. Being a 550 mm copter, there is obviously much more drift involved than with the Phantom but still, it is very fast without GPS lock. Of course that's not feasible in the long run and that's why I got rid of the Yuneec, that and the sub par range I was getting.
 
@John Locke One POI for you, take that Q500+ out and fly that bad boy in Manual Mode. I forgot what it is called on the Yuneec, but whoa, we are talking like 60 mph you could kill someone with that thing. Being a 550 mm copter, there is obviously much more drift involved than with the Phantom but still, it is very fast without GPS lock. Of course that's not feasible in the long run and that's why I got rid of the Yuneec, that and the sub par range I was getting.

Yes, I've seen YouTube demonstrations of manual mode speed, but I thought is was more like 38mph. The problem however with the Typhoon is you must start up in manual mode, and there's no switching back to GPS mid flight. You must land, turn off the craft, and start back up again in GPS mode. So if you get outside of VLOS in manual mode, you're screwed getting back. If I remember correctly I don't think RTH will work in manual mode, since GPS is off. With my Phantom I can switch the GPS on and off mid-flight. I just don't get it, why did Yuneec disable the ability to toggle GPS "on the fly". I'm selling the Q500, I hope I can find a buyer.
 

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