bad news from faa for recreational flyers

[Smoked Mountain]

Quite a broad brush you're using to paint AMA Flying Clubs there. Let me use my own brush for a moment...

I'm one of those "Elders" and I know first hand the difference between flying an unstabilized, unGPS guided, R/C plank to your DJI MR is night and day. All you need to know is how to charge the batteries, turn on the equipment and hit the LAUNCH button. If you desired you could literally "fly it with a single button (Launch then land). The R/C plane requires you to know how the plane flies, how to control it in all flights parameters, how to navigate from point A to point B and being able to manage speed, altitude, and momentum to have a successful flight. The beauty of this type of flying is a "Self Correcting Problem". If you don't learn to fly correctly & safely you crash and have to re-build or replace the kit. That's a Win-Win.

I find the fact that you "stacked the deck" against him and pulled such a crappy stunt shows more about your character than your skills as an aviator. While I'm sure he took it well that's still a pretty crappy stunt to pull IMHO.

Fortunately I belong to an old AMA club that not only allows but embraces MultiRotors. We were flying Custom Built MR's back as early as approximately 2006. Admittedly most of the flights were short and resulted in repair/replacement parts but it was flight none-the-less. We were testing and crashing because off-the-shelf gyros and GPS units weren't readily available. Things have come a long way since that time in the advancement of GPS and GRYO units to act as Training Wheels. I'm as guilty as anyone else of enjoying the ease of control/stabilization of the latest and greatest units which I fly daily in many various scenarios from FUN to WORK to Search & Rescue.

The majority of our members are now flying both MR's and planks (airplanes) but we have some members who only fly one or the other. Yes we spend hours "hangar flying" but that's part of the history of Aviation. At most airports around the nation if you show up on weekends, holidays, and bad weather days you'll find pilots sitting around "Hangar Flying" for hours and hours on end. It's one of the joys of sharing experiences, new ideas, and sometimes what NOT TO DO with fellow aviators.

While I do agree that a club that doesn't allow MR could be doing better there has been a HUGE surge of activity/interest in nonMR flying over the last couple of years thanks to the expansion of easy-to-fly (Gyro Stabilized ironically) small inexpensive flying packages from your most well known vendors (Horizon Hobby for example). Also we, the R/C industry as a whole, owes a huge round of THANKS to the gang at Flite Test who have introduced so many new people to this amazing and exciting hobby via their YouTube productions and their Easy to Build Kits made from Foamboard. If you're not familiar with Flite Test you might want to check out their YT Channel for yourself: FliteTest

Flying is not the single enjoyment for flying a Mavic. It is a flying camera that can provide incredible pictures, and videos that NONE, ZERO, NADA of the toy airplanes can even attempt. I really don't *** about pretending to be a pilot. I am a certified pilot and I am a certified photographer maybe that's the difference
I have had my pilot's license for 45 years, been there and have REALLY done that, no toys for me.

I have found my flying cameras are waaaaaay more productive than buzzing around a tiny little air field, which I understand doesn't pay anything. I make serious money with my Mavic. Part 107. It is not a game, to me. AMA clubs need new members as much they need to keep the old ones.

I am now painting a full picture, here.
I joined the club because I can see where the FAA is directing the rules and regs to be determined in the future, under the auspices of the AMA. It will behoove any part 107 operator to have an affiliation with a local club.
I go to the field during the week when no r/c airplanes are flying. I don't need the field to fly a drone, it's really kind of silly to use it. I do it to test software updates, camera settings, etc.. I might as well use the field since I pay $200.00/year for the membership.

The point I was making is that SOME clubs, (OK, my club) are STALE and OLD and need new blood. Building and flying model aircraft does not have the same meaning to the majority of young people that it did when aviation was still young. The aviation industry is not the same intrigue for them since the advent of the cell phone and tablets.

If you don't have grand kids then you may not know that kids, today would choose staying in the house and staring endlessly at the magic screens with no desire, whatsoever of building toy airplanes and actually going outside for extended periods, away from their "heroine" screens.
Involving kids in photography with flying cameras could just be that bridge builder necessary to attract the minds full of FaceBook, Twitter, Twatter, Waddle and Crapping apps. They might see that r/c flying can be fun, too, something none of the things they do today will ever introduce them to.

I'm the guy that tells people when they have a booger on their nose. I tell it like I see it. If you read closely you would see that it was my challenge to open the "elders" mind a bit to have them understand why they are doomed to fade away if they don't open their minds and recruit new members. (kinda like not wanting to procreate) I am still the newest member after almost two years.

I understand that many people denied that there was any use for cars, airplanes, telephones, TV's, etc. Those beliefs faded out of existence.

AMA clubs can be thinking that is no use for drones. If nothing else, it can be an attraction to some young people to join the AMA and a local club.

By the way, in my mind, all you have to do is charge the batteries and go out to the field and fly r/c airplanes. I spent way more time learning to fly a real airplane, which I mastered. I can say that because I NEVER crashed, once. You ever crash an r/c airplane? Skill levels are relative...

 

[Smoked Mountain]

You're wrong and that's too broad of a statement. There is a recent resurgence of R/C planes that are easy to build, easy to fly, and economical. There is still a strong segment of the industry that enjoys learning to fly the aircraft rather than the simple "Buy, Charge, and press Launch" concept.

Thanks to recent releases by Horizon Hobby and FliteTest (just a couple that come to mind) it's never been easier or less expensive to get into the hobby of R/C outside of MultiRotors. I own and fly both (almost daily) but the joy of actually flying a plane/heli far exceeds flying my multirotors probably 10-1.

If only the kids today had a way of knowing what you know. They have no clue that folks like FliteTest exists, that is the point several of us are making. I love FliteTest guys. My grand kids say they have never heard of them. When I told them they fly r/c airplanes, the response was "oh"..back to the tablet screen.

 

[Smoked Mountain]

You totally missed my point. I agree with everything you said with the exception that I am not wrong about the fact that there are clubs out there that don't except the new advances you speak of. Maybe I didn't state my idea correctly. I was not making a broad statement. I was talking about the clubs that are exclusively old guys that are unwilling to accept the new advances you speak of. They think that building your own aircraft and gassers are the only way to go. While maybe not prevalent they do exist. Not too long ago me and my club mates were shunned from a neighboring club because we fly electrics. Those are the types of clubs that I was referring to.

I think the elders are poo pooing reality... IDC.

 

[BigAl07]

Flying is not the single enjoyment for flying a Mavic. It is a flying camera that can provide incredible pictures, and videos that NONE, ZERO, NADA of the toy airplanes can even attempt. I really don't g-a-s about pretending to be a pilot. I am a certified pilot and I am a certified photographer maybe that's the difference
I have had my pilot's license for 45 years, been there and have REALLY done that, no toys for me.

I have found my flying cameras are waaaaaay more productive than buzzing around a tiny little air field, which I understand doesn't pay anything. I make serious money with my Mavic. Part 107. It is not a game, to me. AMA clubs need new members as much they need to keep the old ones.

I am now painting a full picture, here.
I joined the club because I can see where the FAA is directing the rules and regs to be determined in the future, under the auspices of the AMA. It will behoove any part 107 operator to have an affiliation with a local club.
I go to the field during the week when no r/c airplanes are flying. I don't need the field to fly a drone, it's really kind of silly to use it. I do it to test software updates, camera settings, etc.. I might as well use the field since I pay $200.00/year for the membership.

The point I was making is that SOME clubs, (OK, my club) are STALE and OLD and need new blood. Building and flying model aircraft does not have the same meaning to the majority of young people that it did when aviation was still young. The aviation industry is not the same intrigue for them since the advent of the cell phone and tablets.

If you don't have grand kids then you may not know that kids, today would choose staying in the house and staring endlessly at the magic screens with no desire, whatsoever of building toy airplanes and actually going outside for extended periods, away from their "heroine" screens.
Involving kids in photography with flying cameras could just be that bridge builder necessary to attract the minds full of FaceBook, Twitter, Twatter, Waddle and Crapping apps. They might see that r/c flying can be fun, too, something none of the things they do today will ever introduce them to.

I'm the guy that tells people when they have a booger on their nose. I tell it like I see it. If you read closely you would see that it was my challenge to open the "elders" mind a bit to have them understand why they are doomed to fade away if they don't open their minds and recruit new members. (kinda like not wanting to procreate) I am still the newest member after almost two years.

I understand that many people denied that there was any use for cars, airplanes, telephones, TV's, etc. Those beliefs faded out of existence.

AMA clubs can be thinking that is no use for drones. If nothing else, it can be an attraction to some young people to join the AMA and a local club.

By the way, in my mind, all you have to do is charge the batteries and go out to the field and fly r/c airplanes. I spent way more time learning to fly a real airplane, which I mastered. I can say that because I NEVER crashed, once. You ever crash an r/c airplane? Skill levels are relative...

You can preach all you want.. PPL here for decades and flying R/C for decades as well.

Comparing "learning to fly a REAL airplane" to anything R/C is nothing less than comical.

Charging and going to the field to fly an R/C airplane is a quick and expensive lesson in futility and once again a Self Correcting Problem.......

Yes I have crashed sailplanes, Stunt planes, Sea planes, Trainers, Jets, EDF, and just about anything else you can come up with. Not because lack of skill but because I've logged enough hours flying all of them and they have single points of failure. Your ability to not crash a manned aircraft is irrelevant in this converstaion. i've not crashed a manned aircraft either (thank God) but that does not mean we've mastered it.... LOL.

If your grandkids have never heard of FliteTest then you're the one failing not them. If we don't teach new generations how to FLY and not just "buy, charge, click" then we are the problem.

I can assure you I have made many more $$ than most have ever thought about using sUAS but that doesn't mean I don't understand and APPRECIATE being able to fly something other than a "Flying Tripod". You've barked up the wrong tree right here sir. There were times when I literally named my own price and I had companies waiting for my services. I have been hired by companies such as The Travel Channel, Disney, and several others to fly sUAS for them. Let's see your sUAS pedigree and compare notes.

 

[Indiana_pyro]

You can preach all you want.. PPL here for decades and flying R/C for decades as well.

Comparing "learning to fly a REAL airplane" to anything R/C is nothing less than comical.

Charging and going to the field to fly an R/C airplane is a quick and expensive lesson in futility and once again a Self Correcting Problem.......

Yes I have crashed sailplanes, Stunt planes, Sea planes, Trainers, Jets, EDF, and just about anything else you can come up with. Not because lack of skill but because I've logged enough hours flying all of them and they have single points of failure. Your ability to not crash a manned aircraft is irrelevant in this converstaion. i've not crashed a manned aircraft either (thank God) but that does not mean we've mastered it.... LOL.

If your grandkids have never heard of FliteTest then you're the one failing not them. If we don't teach new generations how to FLY and not just "buy, charge, click" then we are the problem.

I can assure you I have made many more $$ than most have ever thought about using sUAS but that doesn't mean I don't understand and APPRECIATE being able to fly something other than a "Flying Tripod". You've barked up the wrong tree right here sir. There were times when I literally named my own price and I had companies waiting for my services. I have been hired by companies such as The Travel Channel, Disney, and several others to fly sUAS for them. Let's see your sUAS pedigree and compare notes.

As has happened many times before in other threads, it appears you might have misunderstood what some have said here. Do you ever read something twice before you respond ? Was a pretty good thread going here.

 

[2edgesword]

The number of private pilots has steadily been decline since 2004 (235,994 down to 163,995 in 2018). I'm guessing cost of training is a big part of the decline. Based on what I've read in this thread it sounds like the number of recreational RC pilots is also declining. My understanding is the cost of entry has actually gotten lower so the decline might not be a matter of cost but time, access and the increasing number of options for young people as far as things to do that you can do from home that don't require a lot of extra effort.

I flew manned aircraft for many years. Owned a C-150 for a number of years. Took all my kids flying but not one of them showed any of the interest or passion I have for flying. I started flying drones a few years ago, talk to may kids and grandkids about my "adventures", buzz around my house when they are over. Not one of them have shown any interest in them. It seems they can log onto one of their games (headset with microphone, monster graphics and connected over the internet with others playing the game with them) and that satisfies their need for adventure.

With all of that said I can only see additional rules for flying drones or other aircraft as increasing the obstacles for getting the next generation involved in what we find so addictive. With precision gps, airspace roadmaps that cover the airspace below 400' and autonomous flying you may not even need pilots for future commercial operation of drones so I'm not sure about the vocational opportunities that might be a motivation to get involved in flying RC aircraft.