Australian National Parks now require drone permits ?

Loz · Dec 15, 2016

I'm watching this thread with great interest, was hoping to fly on the coast and related areas down from Melbourne all recreationally. My understanding is we (sub 2kg, recreational flyers) are not allowed to fly near heliports (5.5kms) but happy to be corrected, I wouldn't personally anyway.

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arnok9010 · Dec 15, 2016

With The Birds said:
When did you get your remote pilots licence? The rules haven't changed.

RPL isn't "Remote Pilots License" its "Recreational Pilots License" i.e Ultralights - and in 2013. (I think they have now changed the name). It lasts for two years but you must do 10 hours of flying time to maintain it per year. OOOh wait.. just logged in to my casa portal and I have until August 2018 to update details to the new class

arnok9010 · Dec 15, 2016

Lawrie said:
I'm watching this thread with great interest, was hoping to fly on the coast and related areas down from Melbourne all recreationally. My understanding is we (sub 2kg, recreational flyers) are not allowed to fly near heliports (5.5kms) but happy to be corrected, I wouldn't personally anyway.

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The worst part.. as i'm a FIFO worker and rarely home i'd love to bring the phantom with me but now i'm worried that the first time I take it out... it'll get confiscated.

rocketflyer · Dec 15, 2016

Lawrie said:
My understanding is we (sub 2kg, recreational flyers) are not allowed to fly near heliports (5.5kms) but happy to be corrected,

From the CASA site for rec flyers:

Operations within the 3nm (5.5km) radius of an aerodrome or helicopter landing site are possible and lawful providing you comply with the Standard Operating Conditions listed above and ensure that you do not operate:

on the approach and departure path, or
within the movement area, or
create a hazard to aircraft that may be using those areas.

and the SOC's appear to be:

You should only fly in visual line-of-sight, in day visual meteorological conditions (VMC). What does that mean?
- No night flying (generally).
- No flying in or through cloud or fog, and you should.
- Be able to see the aircraft with your own eyes (rather than through first-person-view [FPV, binoculars, telescopes]) at all times, (unless you operate under the procedures of an approved model flying association. Contact the MAAA for more information about flying FPV).
You must not fly closer than 30 metres to vehicles, boats, buildings or people.
You must not fly over populous areas such as beaches, heavily populated parks, or sports ovals while they are in use.
In controlled airspace, which covers most Australian cities, you must not fly higher than 120 metres (400 feet) above the ground.
You must not fly in a way that creates a hazard to other aircraft, so you should keep at least 5.5 km away from airfields, aerodromes and helicopter landing sites.

AnchorageAk · Dec 15, 2016

John,

Please read the above.

People taking film or video for personal use, except if filming with drones.

arnok9010 · Dec 15, 2016

rocketflyer said:
From the CASA site for rec flyers:

Operations within the 3nm (5.5km) radius of an aerodrome or helicopter landing site are possible and lawful providing you comply with the Standard Operating Conditions listed above and ensure that you do not operate:

on the approach and departure path, or

within the movement area, or

create a hazard to aircraft that may be using those areas.

and the SOC's appear to be:

You should only fly in visual line-of-sight, in day visual meteorological conditions (VMC). What does that mean?

No night flying (generally).

No flying in or through cloud or fog, and you should.

Be able to see the aircraft with your own eyes (rather than through first-person-view [FPV, binoculars, telescopes]) at all times, (unless you operate under the procedures of an approved model flying association. Contact the MAAA for more information about flying FPV).

You must not fly closer than 30 metres to vehicles, boats, buildings or people.

You must not fly over populous areas such as beaches, heavily populated parks, or sports ovals while they are in use.

In controlled airspace, which covers most Australian cities, you must not fly higher than 120 metres (400 feet) above the ground.

You must not fly in a way that creates a hazard to other aircraft, so you should keep at least 5.5 km away from airfields, aerodromes and helicopter landing sites.

Exactly it says *SHOULD* not must... if the heliport is only for emergencies (which I know to be the case) then unless there is a major car accident etc then its not in use and it should be safe to fly there... the problem is when comparing the RPA rules with normal flight there is a a lot of ambiguity in the rulings that makes it difficult to determine if there is a legal basis or not to fly there.

arnok9010 · Dec 15, 2016

So John what your saying is the land of the free isn't that free ?

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Loz · Dec 15, 2016

I don't quite agree with your conclusion (I'm not claiming any superior knowledge, just offering a discussion opinion). You suggest unless Heliport being used emergency then should be safe, that MAY be true, but I see the point is it's not our/your determination (of an emergency) that counts it's theirs. Drone pilot unlikely to know of a change in situation for example (eg wasn't an emergency, but is now), hence MUST NOT fly to create hazard, SHOULD NOT fly too close - the later helping to ensure the former mandatory requirement is met.

But I don't get why we can't fly at night ever, under any circumstances (as recreational, sub 2kg pilots, complying otherwise with CASA rules) - that seems just overkill and unreasonable..

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Sparky1963 · Dec 15, 2016

Look I've never had a problem at the Blue Mountains, I've flown Evans Lookout, Govetts Leap, Jamison And Megalong valleys and Mount Victoria, I have insurance and follow the CASA regulations. I regular visit the Royal National Park and ask at the kiosk or gatehouse and they no problem as long as I fly to CASA rules in the airspace, I fly at Wattamolla and Garie Beaches and Stanwell tops, I've even had Parks staff and the police watching me fly with no probs. [emoji3]

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Loz · Dec 15, 2016

Good to hear

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rocketflyer · Dec 15, 2016

Hey sparky, what insurance is that if I might ask?

arnok9010 · Dec 15, 2016

Lawrie said:
I don't quite agree with your conclusion (I'm not claiming any superior knowledge, just offering a discussion opinion). You suggest unless Heliport being used emergency then should be safe, that MAY be true, but I see the point is it's not our/your determination (of an emergency) that counts it's theirs. Drone pilot unlikely to know of a change in situation for example (eg wasn't an emergency, but is now), hence MUST NOT fly to create hazard, SHOULD NOT fly too close - the later helping to ensure the former mandatory requirement is met.

But I don't get why we can't fly at night ever, under any circumstances (as recreational, sub 2kg pilots, complying otherwise with CASA rules) - that seems just overkill and unreasonable..

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I see what you are saying Lawrie and in part agree with your viewpoint. I'm not sure if you know but you can download an app that lets you listen to the towers (no transmit), we actually use it as part of pilot training to teach you how to speak on the radio.

If I was to fly anywhere near that heliport (and I'm talking near the edge of the zone certainly not any closer) I would be listening to the tower to see if any inbound traffic was being directed to that port. If that was the case I would be packed up and finished long before the helo got close to landing. Aircraft need to seek permission (even in an emergency) to land so you would hear that clear as day giving ample time to ensure our drones would not affect any operations.

arnok9010 · Dec 15, 2016

Sparky1963 said:
Look I've never had a problem at the Blue Mountains, I've flown Evans Lookout, Govetts Leap, Jamison And Megalong valleys and Mount Victoria, I have insurance and follow the CASA regulations. I regular visit the Royal National Park and ask at the kiosk or gatehouse and they no problem as long as I fly to CASA rules in the airspace, I fly at Wattamolla and Garie Beaches and Stanwell tops, I've even had Parks staff and the police watching me fly with no probs. [emoji3]

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Sparky,

To have insurance then you'd have to have a drone license (ReOC) correct ? Also Evans Lookout is awfully close to Katoomba airport (i'm not sure what the flights are like there though).

Sparky1963 · Dec 15, 2016

No I'm insured through NRMA and going by UAV I'm and out of restricted area

notso · Dec 15, 2016

The question to ask the "fun police" is "or what?". What is the sanction if you do a stern talking to? There doesn't seem to be any enforceable laws other than the CASA laws, which seem reasonable. A quick look at You Tube has a few drone videos at The Grampians, for example. The Parks people say you must get permission but there it is nothing on "or else". Having been a bushwalker for decades it is my opinion the Parks people are now over regulating our parks. It was bushwalkers protesting about the bush that got the "fun police" their jobs. We should collectively stand up to them and fly our drones in a responsible manner in the Parks and force the issue. To hell with the "fun police", I say!

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Loz · Dec 15, 2016

With The Birds said:
[Vic Parks] All drones (including sub 2kg) require a permit and a permit won't be issued unless you hold the appropriate CASA certifications for commercial use.

Confusing - as now CASA does not require sub 2kg certification for commercial use, so do we all now qualify for a permit?? (I doubt that's the intent, but it's their working)

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Loz · Dec 15, 2016

^ sorry 'wording'

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Loz · Dec 15, 2016

Sparky1963 said:
No I'm insured through NRMA and going by UAV I'm and out of restricted area

Hi Sparky, not sure I understand, I too interested in insurance, I get NRMA, but not rest of your point on UAV etc, could you elaborate - did you specifically ask NRMA for insurance and if so what's covered if you don't mind me asking please

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Sparky1963 · Dec 16, 2016

Lawrie said:
Hi Sparky, not sure I understand, I too interested in insurance, I get NRMA, but not rest of your point on UAV etc, could you elaborate - did you specifically ask NRMA for insurance and if so what's covered if you don't mind me asking please

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The UAV map and forecast app showing distances from different sized airports, and I also used the restricted areas DJI information. NRMA covers me for theft and accidental damage whilst flying I think up to $2M as a recreational flyer.