Antenna mod and downlink

IBV · Jul 1, 2016

There is too many external paramters to actually can advice you on a system that works for you. Some say this some say that. And all might be right with it in their situation.
There is not only range but also penetration and there is factors like omnidirectional flying or flying out in only one direction? (omni vs. directional antennas.
Boosting is improving range and penetration, but don't overboost the RC or the P4 (when starting..)
Further: When using long cables (roof antenna) you should have the downlink amp near to antenna, not the RC! (altough LMR400 cable will help).
I opened a thread some time ago because I was curious what all people have in use or plan to use.
There are some pictures in case you want to really extend the range beyond your battery capabilities

Antenna jungle - inventory - What's out there?

JakeMaxxUAV · Jul 1, 2016

Appreciate the kind words Sim!

Sim597 · Jul 1, 2016

Zuzua said:
@Sim597: question I've been meaning to ask guys that have mounted antaenna on roof.
You guys probably use boosters because of the extra length of cables from antaenna to RC, right? Do you use the same amps that most user with the RC mods, sunhans 3w?
Most important question for me is how do you adjust the antaenna direction? Do you have motors mounted to turn it or manually, how?

Thx

There is a shot of my two Hawking 9dB Omni antenna I had mounted.

Fair question, first the loss of a 2.4ghz signal is certainly a problem, 5.8ghz is even worse, by double.
What we are doing to get around this is to use LMR-400 cable. A few are using 50' runs, in a 100' run the loss of a 2.4g signal is about, well, it's right at 6.8dB. With the Lightning arrestors and other connections like the whips (these are usually LMR-240 or equivalent that is more pliable and easy to hook up to the remote and not be so cumbersome) so, with the connectors and whips involved I am likely losing about 3.4dB + another 1dB for whip and another dB for connections let's say, so about 5.5dB would be an aggressive factor, it's probably between 4.5-5.5dB lost. If the remote is giving us say 20dBm plus the 9dB for antenna, and the gold amps are like....16dB (transmit side here only) that puts me at approximately 45dBm minus the 5.5dB so, consider them at maybe 38-40dBm total, which is still very high and over FCC limits anyway. (My whips are only 6', some are using 10' LMR-240)
Sorry for long reply.
The other answer is to use OMNI antennas. These types are exactly that, Omni directional, where our handheld antenna are directional because we can point them, and directional is stronger in the said direction so it makes sense to use these types for on the remote.
I did consider, and as ongoing hobby may try, to use a cheap $40 TV antenna on Amazon that lets you "steer" the antenna to best signal, then with some tearing apart and connecting say a MaxxRange antenna onto this, would be a fun little experiment, having the antenna already and cable would make this a $38 investment, but I would want it on my roof, and I don't think my area will let ugly antennas on our roofs, maybe but don't know for sure.

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Sim597 · Jul 1, 2016

IBV said:
There is too many external paramters to actually can advice you on a system that works for you. Some say this some say that. And all might be right with it in their situation.
There is not only range but also penetration and there is factors like omnidirectional flying or flying out in only one direction? (omni vs. directional antennas.
Boosting is improving range and penetration, but don't overboost the RC or the P4 (when starting..)
Further: When using long cables (roof antenna) you should have the downlink amp near to antenna, not the RC! (altough LMR400 cable will help).
I opened a thread some time ago because I was curious what all people have in use or plan to use.
There are some pictures in case you want to really extend the range beyond your battery capabilities
Antenna jungle - inventory - What's out there?

Like IBV says, it's true, your area and what you get will depend mostly on LOS. Some USA made amps, have the amp located up near antenna, they can be expensive but, they are getting 45KM, in line of sight of course. Going to buy one of these types of amps, just not 100% on exactly how to hook them up.

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nonflyingbrick · Jul 1, 2016

IBV said:
Boosting is improving range and penetration, but don't overboost the RC or the P4 (when starting..)

What you do mean by the advice to not "overboost" when starting? And why?

nonflyingbrick · Jul 1, 2016

phantom13flyer said:
Boosters do help I usually fly with the dbs002 panel boosted and the max range panel unboosted.

Thanks for the info. Why do people sometimes fly unboosted when they have a boosted kit? What are the pains of flying boosted?

Zuzua · Jul 1, 2016

nonflyingbrick said:
Thanks for the info. Why do people sometimes fly unboosted when they have a boosted kit? What are the pains of flying boosted?

None

IBV · Jul 2, 2016

Sim597 said:
There is a shot of my two Hawking 9dB Omni antenna I had mounted.

Fair question, first the loss of a 2.4ghz signal is certainly a problem, 5.8ghz is even worse, by double.
What we are doing to get around this is to use LMR-400 cable. A few are using 50' runs, in a 100' run the loss of a 2.4g signal is about, well, it's right at 6.8dB. With the Lightning arrestors and other connections like the whips (these are usually LMR-240 or equivalent that is more pliable and easy to hook up to the remote and not be so cumbersome) so, with the connectors and whips involved I am likely losing about 3.4dB + another 1dB for whip and another dB for connections let's say, so about 5.5dB would be an aggressive factor, it's probably between 4.5-5.5dB lost. If the remote is giving us say 20dBm plus the 9dB for antenna, and the gold amps are like....16dB (transmit side here only) that puts me at approximately 45dBm minus the 5.5dB so, consider them at maybe 38-40dBm total, which is still very high and over FCC limits anyway. (My whips are only 6', some are using 10' LMR-240)
Sorry for long reply.
The other answer is to use OMNI antennas. These types are exactly that, Omni directional, where our handheld antenna are directional because we can point them, and directional is stronger in the said direction so it makes sense to use these types for on the remote.
I did consider, and as ongoing hobby may try, to use a cheap $40 TV antenna on Amazon that lets you "steer" the antenna to best signal, then with some tearing apart and connecting say a MaxxRange antenna onto this, would be a fun little experiment, having the antenna already and cable would make this a $38 investment, but I would want it on my roof, and I don't think my area will let ugly antennas on our roofs, maybe but don't know for sure.

Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app

nonflyingbrick said:
What you do mean by the advice to not "overboost" when starting? And why?

Have you got a link to those 40$ TV antennas?
I ordered now a strong pan/tilt unit and a pneumatic telescopic mast. The amps will go near to antenna. Yor new amps seem real good!

IBV · Jul 2, 2016

nonflyingbrick said:
What you do mean by the advice to not "overboost" when starting? And why?

..because I had the bird just 5 meter from the 4W boosters.. It seems to have distorted RC signal at the input amp from the P4. Not sure, only suspect. Same counts for HD downlink side at the RC input. (had two amps, one near to roof antenna, one near RC)

Sim597 · Jul 2, 2016

nonflyingbrick said:
Thanks for the info. Why do people sometimes fly unboosted when they have a boosted kit? What are the pains of flying boosted?

The boost depends on your environmental factors, it varies by area and sometimes by your own equipment. My setup vs IBV let's say, his FC side is stronger then his HD downlink, mines opposite. The side that has up/down (flight control side) obviously gets a BIG boost and the Downlink channel is much harder to "capture" as its only listening and it's harder to RX then TX when boosters are applied. You then get into noise, the RX side is like a hearing aid, it boosts' the noise as well as the signal, it doesn't know the difference. For me for a time my best setup was an amp on FC and no amp on the RX side. My big antenna, the MaxxRange one doesn't really work that much better, it works pretty well without an amp.
To be fair to this, so did have what seems to have been a malfunctioning amp, at least in the pushing end, so it may be out of whack or something, next week I'll have the new ones Jake is sending me.

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Sim597 · Jul 2, 2016

IBV said:
Have you got a link to those 40$ TV antennas?
I ordered now a strong pan/tilt unit and a pneumatic telescopic mast. The amps will go near to antenna. Yor new amps seem real good!

ViewTV Outdoor Amplified Antenna - 150 Miles Range - 360° Rotation - Wireless Remote https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017JEF126/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_4O8DxbK16GPXC
$35 but, I don't think you'll need this pretty cheap part with what you've got, this is more for a guy like me, who doesn't have that air mast like you've ordered, that's the shiznit man!!!
Sorry about other post, I didn't realize what you were asking, but here is one of the types I was talking, for cheap $35 you can then put the MAXRange one, I was thinking first to cut off some weight from the tv part, then at first just use some nylon ties to mount the DBS, or whatever, a yagi for 2.4ghz is arguably the best directional, but the DBS panel might be better, this I haven't tested. You won't have true 360* like the ad boast, because they're using the internal wiring to goto antenna, your going to use your own, so you'll have to remember to "free" up your slack every pre flight. You can always hover for a second while bringing it back around, but if you don't catch this, it will possibly break some things, depends how strong those motors are, for $35 I can't imagine they're too heavy duty.
Good luck, I'd love to find out more about the mast you ordered!

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Sim597 · Jul 5, 2016

Sim597 said:
The boost depends on your environmental factors, it varies by area and sometimes by your own equipment. My setup vs IBV let's say, his FC side is stronger then his HD downlink, mines opposite. The side that has up/down (flight control side) obviously gets a BIG boost and the Downlink channel is much harder to "capture" as its only listening and it's harder to RX then TX when boosters are applied. You then get into noise, the RX side is like a hearing aid, it boosts' the noise as well as the signal, it doesn't know the difference. For me for a time my best setup was an amp on FC and no amp on the RX side. My big antenna, the MaxxRange one doesn't really work that much better, it works pretty well without an amp.
To be fair to this, so did have what seems to have been a malfunctioning amp, at least in the pushing end, so it may be out of whack or something, next week I'll have the new ones Jake is sending me.

Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app

I know I am replying to myself, just want to clarify the MaxxRange antenna works great, what I meant was that for some of my test (with at least one probable bad amp) the antenna tested about as well without boosters as it did with.
This was actually one of the factors to "checksum" what I was seeing on the amp side. My MaxxRange antenna seemed big at first but after you use it for just a couple days, it actually feels like some thought was put into how big can they go, and still make it mostly comfortable, I think they hit the mark perfectly, adds no real weight, and it's in line with the size of the remote and my 8" tablet like it was meant to be.
In fact, the only negative I have for the antenna is its much harder to take with me, the DBS_02 stores inside my stock P4 suitcase it came in, the MaxxRange I can't make work, it's still a great antenna

FatTwoTonTony · Jul 7, 2016

Sim597 said:
I know I am replying to myself, just want to clarify the MaxxRange antenna works great, what I meant was that for some of my test (with at least one probable bad amp) the antenna tested about as well without boosters as it did with.
This was actually one of the factors to "checksum" what I was seeing on the amp side. My MaxxRange antenna seemed big at first but after you use it for just a couple days, it actually feels like some thought was put into how big can they go, and still make it mostly comfortable, I think they hit the mark perfectly, adds no real weight, and it's in line with the size of the remote and my 8" tablet like it was meant to be.
In fact, the only negative I have for the antenna is its much harder to take with me, the DBS_02 stores inside my stock P4 suitcase it came in, the MaxxRange I can't make work, it's still a great antenna

I purchased a DBS attenna last year from their website and I am getting good results! Now seeing the Maxrange I am very curious as to if this will show any improvement with range?? Did you notice a large or any improvement with your signal?

nonflyingbrick · Jul 8, 2016

FatTwoTonTony said:
I purchased a DBS attenna last year from their website and I am getting good results!

Thanks Tony. To be clear, which website did you purchase the antenna from?

Sim597 · Jul 10, 2016

FatTwoTonTony said:
I purchased a DBS attenna last year from their website and I am getting good results! Now seeing the Maxrange I am very curious as to if this will show any improvement with range?? Did you notice a large or any improvement with your signal?

I say for sure it gets better range, in my rough area, it gave me another 1/2 a kilometer, which is really good as in that direction I was only getting about 1k, so this gave me a 50% increase in lousy area, in clear area, giving same thing, if you normally go out a mile and a half, well now you'd be pushing 2.5, or at 2.25m that's substantial and possibly on the low side, very reserved numbers some will say.

Oh yes, I'd have to say, the bigger antenna is certainly the one to use. The small one is nice, but if your in a good area, and have the MaxxRange, you may not even need the amps bro.
If carrying is paramount, like hiking, maybe the initial smaller original one, but I don't do that. If it was a choice between the two, I'd buy the MaxxRange.

I cannot tell you guys who don't own one, how it does NOT feel too big after only a couple uses. At first I admit, I was like ****, it's a little big, but it's only slightly larger then the remote itself, and now after using it and not the smaller one, other then some test I did, it feels like it should be the stock size, really. I mean we are here to fly these things, it's light, and as big as it can be, and not be unwieldy, I think they put some thought into the size, any bigger and it may not be as easy.

This is all just my own thoughts, Jake is a nice guy and he really does come through, I am not paid or even directly or indirectly connected or reimbursed by him, -yet, lol jk. He just happens to carry some items you can't get cheaper anywhere else, and with his lucky7 deal these are/were slightly cheaper then everywhere, so he has the best price and has items others don't, and he is trustworthy, that's enough of a reason for me.

I am still totally waiting for and looking forward to at least one of the 3W amps to get hooked back up, I miss my little gold babies, even with a $350 American made radiated, injected, AGControled 1w solid amp I just received showing great test results, I'm still looking for my gold Sunhans for the FC side and portability side.

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FatTwoTonTony · Jul 11, 2016

nonflyingbrick said:
Thanks Tony. To be clear, which website did you purchase the antenna from?

I got mine from DBS Mods – Long Range Antenna Mods for UAV FPV Flight

FatTwoTonTony · Jul 11, 2016

Sim597 said:
I say for sure it gets better range, in my rough area, it gave me another 1/2 a kilometer, which is really good as in that direction I was only getting about 1k, so this gave me a 50% increase in lousy area, in clear area, giving same thing, if you normally go out a mile and a half, well now you'd be pushing 2.5, or at 2.25m that's substantial and possibly on the low side, very reserved numbers some will say.

Oh yes, I'd have to say, the bigger antenna is certainly the one to use. The small one is nice, but if your in a good area, and have the MaxxRange, you may not even need the amps bro.
If carrying is paramount, like hiking, maybe the initial smaller original one, but I don't do that. If it was a choice between the two, I'd buy the MaxxRange.

I cannot tell you guys who don't own one, how it does NOT feel too big after only a couple uses. At first I admit, I was like ****, it's a little big, but it's only slightly larger then the remote itself, and now after using it and not the smaller one, other then some test I did, it feels like it should be the stock size, really. I mean we are here to fly these things, it's light, and as big as it can be, and not be unwieldy, I think they put some thought into the size, any bigger and it may not be as easy.

This is all just my own thoughts, Jake is a nice guy and he really does come through, I am not paid or even directly or indirectly connected or reimbursed by him, -yet, lol jk. He just happens to carry some items you can't get cheaper anywhere else, and with his lucky7 deal these are/were slightly cheaper then everywhere, so he has the best price and has items others don't, and he is trustworthy, that's enough of a reason for me.

I am still totally waiting for and looking forward to at least one of the 3W amps to get hooked back up, I miss my little gold babies, even with a $350 American made radiated, injected, AGControled 1w solid amp I just received showing great test results, I'm still looking for my gold Sunhans for the FC side and portability side.

Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app

Thx for the response its very helpful

KyleMaxxUAV · Jul 11, 2016

Sim597 said:
I say for sure it gets better range, in my rough area, it gave me another 1/2 a kilometer, which is really good as in that direction I was only getting about 1k, so this gave me a 50% increase in lousy area, in clear area, giving same thing, if you normally go out a mile and a half, well now you'd be pushing 2.5, or at 2.25m that's substantial and possibly on the low side, very reserved numbers some will say.

Oh yes, I'd have to say, the bigger antenna is certainly the one to use. The small one is nice, but if your in a good area, and have the MaxxRange, you may not even need the amps bro.
If carrying is paramount, like hiking, maybe the initial smaller original one, but I don't do that. If it was a choice between the two, I'd buy the MaxxRange.

I cannot tell you guys who don't own one, how it does NOT feel too big after only a couple uses. At first I admit, I was like ****, it's a little big, but it's only slightly larger then the remote itself, and now after using it and not the smaller one, other then some test I did, it feels like it should be the stock size, really. I mean we are here to fly these things, it's light, and as big as it can be, and not be unwieldy, I think they put some thought into the size, any bigger and it may not be as easy.

This is all just my own thoughts, Jake is a nice guy and he really does come through, I am not paid or even directly or indirectly connected or reimbursed by him, -yet, lol jk. He just happens to carry some items you can't get cheaper anywhere else, and with his lucky7 deal these are/were slightly cheaper then everywhere, so he has the best price and has items others don't, and he is trustworthy, that's enough of a reason for me.

I am still totally waiting for and looking forward to at least one of the 3W amps to get hooked back up, I miss my little gold babies, even with a $350 American made radiated, injected, AGControled 1w solid amp I just received showing great test results, I'm still looking for my gold Sunhans for the FC side and portability side.

Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app